Jews who became Catholics: some commonalities

[Cathdefender]

You are confusing Jews (a people) and Judaism (the religion of a people).

Normally I would not care what nonJews thought of Judaism (the religion)…but because so often, some of their erroneous beliefs about Judaism (the religion) has led to violence against Jews (the people), I will speak out to correct mistaken ideas./QU

And such with violence against Christians…

 

[Bible_Reader]

This is all getting a little out of control. HashemEchad/Sepharad, who is posting, as of right now, an average of 27 messages a day on this forum, has admitted that she attacks Catholics here (recall – she started this thread) to take her mind off her mother’s death. I would say she needs a psychologist or a religious counselor – that attacking Catholics is not an acceptable form of therapy.

She also says she has been involved in anti-missionary work for 30 years. However, elsewhere she mentions that she visited a Catholic church in 1995 and that she was not even religious (this is part of a long apostasy she had from her time as a teenager until, apparently, sometime after 1995.) The problem, of course is that it is a little hard to fit 30 years between 1995 and 2008 unless one is counting in doggy years.

This is not the first time I have caught HashemEchad/Sepharad in a fib.

Now, Sepharad says she is interested in anti-missionary work. However, the Catholic Answers forum is for discussing Catholicism – not for evangelizing Jews. Perhaps she wants to understand Catholicism better, but then I would think she would come in an attitude of humility and respect instead of deliberately picking fights (debating to blow off frustration after the death of her mother.) Remember – she started this thread!

I hope we can give Sepharad our prayers that she can get the help she needs to deal with the death of her mother. In the meanwhile, I hope she can stop picking fights – maybe she can even spend some time on a Jewish forum instead of a Catholic forum.

 

[Eden]

It’s good to see that Sepharad acknowledges that Jesus exists and that the NT is spiritually valuable.

 

[Sepharad]

It’s good to see that Sepharad acknowledges that Jesus exists and that the NT is spiritually valuable.

When did I say it was “spiritually valuable”, except to Christians?

And no, I do not believe Jesus exists now, because he is dead. But I think it is likely he did exist at one time.

 

[Eden]

Defend it all you want, I’m just telling you how it looks to those of us who are not Catholic.

Genuine truth does not need defending.

Yes, but lies need to be countered. That horrid, manipulated website you gave me containing the falsehoods you use to remove people from Christianity is a prime example of why Catholics need to defend our faith. There are enough poorly catechized Catholics out there, that they may actually fall for the false information on your website.

 

[Eden]

When did I say it was “spiritually valuable”, except to Christians?

And no, I do not believe Jesus exists now, because he is dead. But I think it is likely he did exist at one time.

Spiritually valuable means spiritually valuable, whether you qualify that it is only so for Christians, or not.

 

[Sepharad]

Yes, but lies need to be countered. That horrid, manipulated website you gave me containing the falsehoods you use to remove people from Christianity is a prime example of why Catholics need to defend our faith. There are enough poorly catechized Catholics out there, that they may actually fall for the false information on your website.

What site are you talking about? And when did I say I “removed people from Christianity”?

I do not try to remove anyone from any religion; I volunteer as an exit counselor, which means I volunteer for a Jewish organization that exists to counsel Jews who come to us after having been involved in nonJewish religions, and who want to come back to Judaism. We don’t go out looking for people to convert to Judaism.

 

[Eden]

What site are you talking about? And when did I say I “removed people from Christianity”?

I do not try to remove anyone from any religion; I volunteer as an exit counselor, which means I volunteer for a Jewish organization that exists to counsel Jews who come to us after having been involved in nonJewish religions, and who want to come back to Judaism. We don’t go out looking for people to convert to Judaism.

HashemEchad:

As a countermissionary involved in exit counseling, do you have any IDEA how often I’ve seen lists like that…and refuted every one of them? Its not like anyone here is showing me anything new.

If you care to read a refutation of them, go to messiahtruth.com

From this thread:

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=244602&page=5

If people are coming to you with doubts and you refer them to sites like “messiahtruth.com”, which is replete with errors, then you are taking them out of Christianity by filling their heads with false information.

 

[Eden]

We don’t go out looking for people to convert to Judaism.

From the messiahtruth.com website you gave me:

“Like the Christian Missionary, one of the major roles of the Messianic Jew is to proselytize others. They prey on such vulnerable individuals as the lonely, the elderly, the poor, the emotionally unstable, the naive, or those who are just untutored in Scripture. These unfortunates are lured into accepting missionary doctrines out of emotional need, not intellectual conviction. For even after a superficial reading of the missionaries’ textual “proofs” within context, one sees that their doctrines are founded solely upon misquotations and mistranslations of Hebrew Scripture.”

 

[Sepharad]

From this thread:

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=244602&page=5

If people are coming to you with doubts and you refer them to sites like “messiahtruth.com”, which is replete with errors, then you are taking them out of Christianity by filling their heads with false information.

I don’t refer anyone I counsel offline to sites like that because by the time they come to us, their minds are ALREADY made up to leave Christianity or whatever religion they were involved in.

I only link to that site when I am debating theology online.

And I’m sure this man did not need to be “shown” anything about Christianity, because his mind was made up on his own:

rabbimaller.com/gpage12-C.html

 

[Eden]

I don’t refer anyone I counsel offline to sites like that because by the time they come to us, their minds are ALREADY made up to leave Christianity or whatever religion they were involved in.

I only link to that site when I am debating theology online.

Clearly, you find the information on that website to be representative of your own beliefs and would, undoubtedly use the same material when personally counseling someone in an “exit” offline. So, the real problem is not specifically the website, but the falsehoods contained therein which you perpetuate with those who come to you for “counseling”.

And I’m sure this man did not need to be “shown” anything about Christianity, because his mind was made up on his own:

rabbimaller.com/gpage12-C.html

It doesn’t look like he consulted an “exit counselor” either.

 

[Cathdefender]

Wow, I’m still trying to figure out why Hashem became Sepaharard Now it all makes sense.

 

[Sepharad]

Clearly, you find the information on that website to be representative of your own beliefs and would, undoubtedly use the same material when personally counseling someone in an “exit” offline. So, the real problem is not specifically the website, but the falsehoods contained therein which you perpetuate with those who come to you for “counseling”.

It doesn’t look like he consulted an “exit counselor” either.

Some Jews returning don’t need it. But that man was not originally Jewish; he was a Belgian Catholic who chose to become Jewish.

Some Jews feel a need for assistance in coming back; either because they have been away so long that they are not sure what to do. Or they were never religious as Jews and want help in learning how.

Either way, we do not try to convince them of anything, because by the time they come to us, they have ALREADY decided what they believe. We are just there to assist them in their return to the Jewish people.

THIS website, Catholic Answers, seems to exist for two reasons: to help Catholics who want to return to Catholicism (hey! like what our group does for Jews!), and to actively proselytize non-Catholics to get them to become Catholics (no, we don’t do that with Judaism.)

 

[Bible_Reader]

Wow, I’m still trying to figure out why Hashem became Sepaharard Now it all makes sense.

Yep. Let’s keep her in our prayers.

 

[Eden]

Some Jews returning don’t need it. But that man was not originally Jewish; he was a Belgian Catholic who chose to become Jewish.

Some Jews feel a need for assistance in coming back; either because they have been away so long that they are not sure what to do. Or they were never religious as Jews and want help in learning how.

Either way, we do not try to convince them of anything, because by the time they come to us, they have ALREADY decided what they believe. We are just there to assist them in their return to the Jewish people.

THIS website, Catholic Answers, seems to exist for two reasons: to help Catholics who want to return to Catholicism (hey! like what our group does for Jews!), and to actively proselytize non-Catholics to get them to become Catholics (no, we don’t do that with Judaism.)

So, you don’t help Jews decide whether or not returning to Judaism is the direction they should take and you don’t use the website like the one to which you directed me when working offline. So, what exactly is your purpose in sharing that site? Surely, not to proselytize us… hmm…

If Catholicism is not a large threat to Judaism and you are not here to proselytize, then why do you care that we believe Jesus is the Messiah, that the New Testament is inspired, that we appear to be praying to statues at famous shrines and that old ladies cross themselves on a bus when passing a church?

And, just to add to your comments, Catholic Answers also exists to further deepen the knowledge of those of us who are already Catholic, as well and to serve as a meeting place for Catholics to socialize and exchange ideas.

 

[dessert]

Yep. Let’s keep her in our prayers.

Yes I see it now too. Praying!

 

[Sepharad]

Wow, I’m still trying to figure out why Hashem became Sepaharard Now it all makes sense.

I explained the reason for the handle change the same day I made the change: in the “Back fence” section of this forum. I’ve not made any secret of it. I simply got tired of people addressing me as “Hashem”, when that is the Name of God (“Hashem echad” is a sentence, not a name in and of itself, and it means, “God is One”.)

 

[Sepharad]

So, you don’t help Jews decide whether or not returning to Judaism is the direction they should take and you don’t use the website like the one to which you directed me when working offline. So, what exactly is your purpose in sharing that site? Surely, not to proselytize us… hmm…

If Catholicism is not a large threat to Judaism and you are not here to proselytize, then why do you care that we believe Jesus is the Messiah, that the New Testament is inspired, that we appear to be praying to statues at famous shrines and that old ladies cross themselves on a bus when passing a church?

And, just to add to your comments, Catholic Answers also exists to further deepen the knowledge of those of us who are already Catholic, as well and to serve as a meeting place for Catholics to socialize and exchange ideas.

I do two kinds of volunteer work: exit counseling, and countermissionary work.

I would use a website like Messiah Truth when debating missionaries and other Christians who seek to take the Jewish people away from our Covenant with God, and lead them into another religion. I would have no reason to use it with Jews who have **already **made up their minds to return to Judaism, and contact us via our exit counseling organization (which is not the same thing as counterrmissionary work.)

Not all Jews active in countermissionary work are also active in exit counseling, and vice versa. I just happen to one who is involved in both.

Does that answer your question?

 

[Eden]

Does that answer your question?

No, because I have already stated that the website is full of errors. I don’t see how misrepresenting Christianity is a respectable profession. I’m just perplexed by what your intended goal in sharing a site like messiahtruth.com on a Catholic forum was. You haven’t answered that.

 

[Steven_John]

I would like it people on this forum used the name God knows them by rather than handles.

If people are in right relationship with God why do they need to be known differently or by a catch phrase.

(The exception to this is those with new stones) in this case God still knows them by the baptism, naming or good name.

I am happy for people to be in any religion or in none, I trust my God that they will be rightly guided if we all share kindly.

For me i see my God in most religions, God challenges me to see his truth in all beings.

In the Catholic parish where i live the RCIA does not cover much of what is distinctly Catholic and people become “Catholic” without knowing there is a, or being given the catechisum.
Parishoners have told me that they feel abandoned after RCIA.
people in RCIA say well the kids got done through going to school so i guess i will too. The PP seems to accept this as being ok.

In the Islamic society where i live people offer 3 folds saying this is all of what a Muslim needs to believe. Allah is said to have given the Quran but we only need a 3 fold. They are very keen to grab people and say make shihda with me now even if they have not read the Quran.

In my eyes people should know what they are agreeing to.
they do it for worldly things such as contracts but not for the most important thing they have.

I know few Jews we have no synagog but have been blessed to have some (Rabbis) speak in our town.
They have a big thing in my favor saying no one has to be a Jew to be in right relationship with God.

I cant make any one any religion but my God can and sends messengers to do his work.

Web sites are often a poor account of truth due to their bias this is especially so when they speak of why another religion is wrong.
better sites will offer of their own religion.

CA for me has been good place to be labeled. some posters say they know what religion i am and that i am dishonest for not agreeing with them.
i tell them honestly i don’t know or need to know, i just aspire to submit to the one true God. No prizes for guessing how they make their religion look to me.

CA has also been a grate place and some people have shared and help me with purity, All praise be to The Most High God.

It is not wrong to want to and to help people join your religion in fact it is a good thing.

Jesus (pbwh) is narrated as saying pray to the Father (the God of Abraham) as did other prophets (pbwt).
Regardless to your religion this is true, or at least to my understanding in all three i have mentioned.

if you really want to convert some one follow this advice and offer your potential convert to do the same explaining that only God / Allah / — is the guider and he is all seeing all knowing and picks the intercessors.