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GaryTaylor
Guest
Indeed
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Ridgerunner
Guest
It’s just beginning.
I see where some 800,000 Iraqi refugees have fled to the Kurdish-congrolled areas. And it has been what, two days now?
The 60,000 children from Central America aren’t refugees, exactly, and there aren’t 800,000 of them for us to take care of. At least not yet.
But Russia has sent tanks into Ukraine in the last couple of days. Not refugees either, but they’ll motivate some to become refugees, and that’s for sure.
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gilliam
Guest
I don’t think anyone knows what Obama will do now in Iraq. Maybe not even Obama.
Meanwhile:
The United Nations refugee agency, UNHCR, says local authorities estimate that up to 300,000 people fled Mosul in the past few days - joining the more than 500,000 displaced by the conflict in Anbar province earlier.
However, the number of those arriving has slowed down and some already there have begun to return.
UN human rights spokesman Rupert Colville said on Friday that his office had verified reports that included the killing of 17 civilians working for the police and 12 Iraqi soldiers.
He said there had been government “excesses”, too, and cited the shelling of civilian areas on 6 and 8 June.
unhcr.org.uk/news-and-views/news-list/news-detail/article/unhcr-responds-to-massive-displacement-of-iraqis-from-mosul.html
Meanwhile:
The United Nations refugee agency, UNHCR, says local authorities estimate that up to 300,000 people fled Mosul in the past few days - joining the more than 500,000 displaced by the conflict in Anbar province earlier.
However, the number of those arriving has slowed down and some already there have begun to return.
UN human rights spokesman Rupert Colville said on Friday that his office had verified reports that included the killing of 17 civilians working for the police and 12 Iraqi soldiers.
He said there had been government “excesses”, too, and cited the shelling of civilian areas on 6 and 8 June.
unhcr.org.uk/news-and-views/news-list/news-detail/article/unhcr-responds-to-massive-displacement-of-iraqis-from-mosul.html
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7_Sorrows
Guest
That is what I am afraid of.
Was it the first gulf war that saddam hussein invaded kuwait?
How were we able to defeat iraq so easily then?
I think they thought the second invasion of iraq would go as smoothly but it did not. So what happened between the first gulf war and the wars after 9/11?
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EmperorNapoleon
Guest
The Iraqis didn’t find any weapons of mass destruction. They asked for help from the UK to sterilize those facilities of residue. As the ISG noted, Iraq didn’t produce chemical weapons after 1991 nor were any weapons of mass destruction ever found. Even if there was something in those facilities; it would have been sarin which, even in an optimal temperature controlled environment, would have completely degraded within a few weeks or months at most because of the poor quality of production. In other words, a spritz of Windex would be more hazardous to your health than anything anyone found.
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GaryTaylor
Guest
I get the feeling that Isis will lose favor though when Baghdad is a close reality. I just can’t see the Kurds, Shiites and Sunnis who have never been radical terrorists going for that. For now, definitely because of the regime.
That said I don’t see anyway around the US not being involved at some point with the strident movement toward Israel. Its disturbing and a complex mess.
What do you think?
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Coatimundi
Guest
An interesting tidbit:
Despite the call to arms from Sistani, influential Shi’ite cleric Moqtada al-Sadr, who led revolts against U.S. forces, has not called on his followers to mobilize. At Friday prayers, his faithful were told to wait for directions in the coming days on how to form “peace regiments” that will defend holy sites.
reuters.com/article/2014/06/13/us-iraq-security-idUSKBN0EN0RV20140613
The Reuters article doesn’t say anything more about Sadr and his followers, which is a shame. I suspect pretty much everyone in a leadership role in Iraq is looking around, calculating, and maneuvering to take advantage of the military/political crisis.
Despite the call to arms from Sistani, influential Shi’ite cleric Moqtada al-Sadr, who led revolts against U.S. forces, has not called on his followers to mobilize. At Friday prayers, his faithful were told to wait for directions in the coming days on how to form “peace regiments” that will defend holy sites.
reuters.com/article/2014/06/13/us-iraq-security-idUSKBN0EN0RV20140613
The Reuters article doesn’t say anything more about Sadr and his followers, which is a shame. I suspect pretty much everyone in a leadership role in Iraq is looking around, calculating, and maneuvering to take advantage of the military/political crisis.
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gilliam
Guest
What I have been reading is the Sunnis feel they have been so sidelined by Maliki’s government that they are willing to side with ISIS until things get better. I have also heard that Sunni generals ordered their troops to abandon their posts.
However, I don’t think most Sunnis in Iraq will tolerate ISIS for long… way too radical.
Maliki could have avoided all this by actually partnering with all the tribes in Iraq, instead he tried to build a Shiite state.
Bringing Iran into the fight may not be the way to mend fences with the Sunni though.
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Ridgerunner
Guest
Preposterous on its face. Lots of sources on this. The Iraqis were deathly afraid of them because Saddam stored them in civilian neighborhoods, and called on the Brits to destroy them, which the Brits did. They used the occasion to teach Iraqi scientists how to neutralize them, which Iraq wanted in case more got found someday. They didn’t call on anyone to remove Windex from Iraq.
That happened seven years after the ISG reported that they weren’t there.
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gilliam
Guest
Yes, I suspect so
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EmperorNapoleon
Guest
That could just be government propaganda. Iran is saying that they haven’t sent a fighting force to Iraq and have no intention of doing so.
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EmperorNapoleon
Guest
Then prove it. Itemize everything that was allegedly found which qualifies as a weapon of mass destruction.
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gilliam
Guest
CNN: Breaking: US intel warned in Spring ISIS targeting Baghdad and Mosul -counterterrorism official
It would appear that the House Foreign Affairs Committee has been asking for drone attacks on ISIS for 4 months.
youtube.com/watch?v=yNJIUkC8LNo&feature=youtu.be
It would appear that the House Foreign Affairs Committee has been asking for drone attacks on ISIS for 4 months.
youtube.com/watch?v=yNJIUkC8LNo&feature=youtu.be
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whoisdiss
Guest
Pray, pray, pray, and did I mention pray?
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GaryTaylor
Guest
You hear anything about the embassy? Lot of Americans who may have an issue getting out. Its not like we are there to help.
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Tomdstone
Guest
The US backed Iraq government has been shutting down any access to social media such as You Tube or Google. This is the type of democracy(?) that American taxpayers have been supporting? One thousand billion dollars is a lot of money to waste.
businessinsider.com/iraq-blocks-twitter-facebook-youtube-amid-crisis-2014-6
PS. The US condemns Russia for having restrictions on the internet, but you can get You Tube and Google in Russia.
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GaryTaylor
Guest
Another point of media spin, which runs from no-one to a minimum of 500 troops. Its hard to tell on this point.
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gilliam
Guest
The embassy doesn’t have that many in it right now. If there is a threat on the city, the embassy will be evacuated (just like anywhere else.)
washingtonpost.com/blogs/federal-eye/wp/2014/06/13/whats-happening-with-the-diplomats-and-contractors-in-iraq/
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Ridgerunner
Guest
ISIS look-alikes already lost favor with Sunni leaders. We won them away from that a long time ago, as long as we provided protection. But as with the “oil state” leaders, they figure the Sunni Islamists are the only bulwark they now have against aggression by Iran. It’s hard, I think, for us in the west to realize just how profoundly the Sunni Arabs hate and fear Iran. Iranian mullahs torture and kill their own citizens who deviate from the will of the mullahs and Shiite “purity”. How do Sunni Arabs think they’ll fare under that thumb? Remember, the population of Iran is about 70 million. Iraq’s is about 25 million, of which only about 1/4 are Sunni Arabs. Assad is an Iranian puppet and has gassed Sunni insurgents. Hezbollah is an Iranian agency and has fighters in Syria. The only real Sunni Arab power in the region, other than the Islamic radical groups, is Egypt, and it’s a long way off and has its own troubles.
The Kurds are a different thing. They are a separate people, “racially” akin to Persians, but linguistically and culturally different. Lots of Kurds live in Iran and wish they didn’t. The Kurds in Iraq will fight, and in difficult terrain, and have acquired arms. ISIS won’t be going after them soon, and has already lost one smallish battle with the Kurds. They might just be backwater enough and scary enough that the big contenders won’t bother them. At present, anyway, ISIS is probably not strong enough to take on the Kurds. ISIS fighters are not a horde of supermen. They took western Iraq because they are scary and were not seriously opposed.
In Baghdad, there will be Sunni supporters of ISIS, and a lot of Shiites opposing them, including well-trained, well-armed Iranian regulars. I truly don’t think ISIS will take Baghdad, as much as they would like to.
I am sure Israel would like to see ISIS and Iran fight each other without end. But sooner or later, the winner (if there is one) will turn its attention to Israel, and I’m sure Israel knows that. But I don’t think Obama is worrying about Israel right now. I don’t think he often is.
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Coatimundi
Guest
Lieut. Gen. John N. Bednarek, who heads the office of security cooperation at the United States Embassy in Baghdad, told a closed hearing of the Senate Armed Services Committee that some of the Iraqi soldiers who guarded the Green Zone in the capital had come to work wearing civilian clothes under their military uniform, according to one senator. The implication was that the troops were prepared to strip to civilian attire and flee if they came under heavy attack.
nytimes.com/2014/06/13/world/middleeast/american-intelligence-officials-said-iraqi-military-had-been-in-decline.html
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