Jihadists Seize Iraq's Nineveh Province!

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seekerz said:
Longer as in forever? This is not post-world war Europe. You can’t bomb people into breaking 1000 year feuds and you can only bribe them (to not fight - like we supposedly achieved ‘success’ doing) until the coffers are empty.
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No, not as in forever, as in we are in deeper **** because the U.S. left Iraq when it shouldn’t have and now ISIS is taking over.
 
josie_L said:
No, not as in forever, as in we are in deeper **** because the U.S. left Iraq when it shouldn’t have and now ISIS is taking over.
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So when would have been a good time to leave and why are we in deeper ****? The Taliban was/is terrible, but they terrorized their own people until the war came to them (not saying it shouldn’t have). Hezbollah and Hamas are not angels either, but they also tend to prey close to home it seems. Do we have some evidence that ISIS is posing a threat to anything American (diplomats and the necessary military aside, that would be specifically multinational corporations) outside of Iraq and Syria? Al-Q and its lookalikes, are who take terror around the world, and to my knowledge, Al-Q broke affiliation with ISIS. So, let’s see the e-]vidence of WMDs/-], um, I mean evidence of a global terror threat.
 
seekerz said:
We can never kill all the Jihadists unless we kill men, women and children en masse and even then we could never find them all in the same country or even in the same continent. What we can morally do is defend ourselves against those who attack us.
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Although I never agreed to an invasion of Iraq, the Middle East will implode if the U.S. does not interfere, I do not think I exaggerate when I say this.
 
Ridgerunner said:
Noam Chomsky? I expect he blames the United States for the extinction of the dinosaurs. He does everything else.
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A cheap ad hominem argument. You attack the individual but ignore his intelligent and well reasoned arguments. And it is simply false that he does “everything else.”
 
If I were the average person living in the Sunni areas of Iraq, I would probably be welcoming ISIS as long as they kicked Maliki’s forces out too. Maliki’s regime is anti-Sunni. They have a lot of history justify them being so, but that doesn’t make Sunnis hate being treated as 2nd class citizens any less. Maliki created this current situation. He can rectify it if and when ISIS start killing Sunnis. Until they do, Maliki can’t do much. And I don’t know if Maliki even wants to do much.

My 2-cents.
 
seekerz said:
So when would have been a good time to leave and why are we in deeper ****? The Taliban was/is terrible, but they terrorized their own people until the war came to them (not saying it shouldn’t have). Hezbollah and Hamas are not angels either, but they also tend to prey close to home it seems. Do we have some evidence that ISIS is posing a threat to anything American (diplomats and the necessary military aside, that would be specifically multinational corporations) outside of Iraq and Syria? Al-Q and its lookalikes, are who takes terror around the world, and to my knowledge, Al-Q broke affiliation with ISIS. So, let’s see the e-]vidence of WMDs/-], um, I mean evidence of a global terror threat.
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Perhaps you are not aware of ISIS’s goals, i.e., it wishes to create a caliphate, that means if we allow them to continue as they are they will only spread further, much like a cancer.

p.s. And please do me a favour and forego the sarcasm, it’s not polite.
 
josie_L said:
Although I never agreed to an invasion of Iraq, the Middle East will implode if the U.S. does not interfere, I do not think I exaggerate when I say this.
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When have we ever stopped interfering? Syria has been imploding for what, 3 yrs, where’s the fire suddenly? What is so special about Iraq?
 
Tomdstone said:
A cheap ad hominem argument. You attack the individual but ignore his intelligent and well reasoned arguments. And it is simply false that he does “everything else.”
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It’s not an ad hominem if it’s true.
 
josie_L said:
Perhaps you are not aware of ISIS’s goals, i.e., it wishes to create a caliphate, that means if we allow them to continue as they are they will only spread further, much like a cancer.

p.s. And please do me a favour and forego the sarcasm, it’s not polite.
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ISIS’s goal is to create a borderless state called a caliphate in Greater Iraq and the Levant, which includes, Iraq, Syria, Jordan, Kuwait, Lebanon, and Israel and parts of Saudi Arabia and Iran.
 
josie_L said:
No, not as in forever, as in we are in deeper **** because the U.S. left Iraq when it shouldn’t have and now ISIS is taking over.
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Not in my opinion. The USA is in trouble because of its inept foreign policy with reference to the Mideast. The USA should have never worked to overthrow the duly appointed and legitimate leader of Iran, Mr. Mossadeg. Further, all this meddling and intervention has only caused more problems, ripped apart nations and resulted in widespread hatred of the USA. What has happened in the past is in many cases a reliable indicator of what will happen in the future. All the evidence shows that American intervention has been counterproductive and an unmitigated disaster for everyone except the American war machine which has profited enormously by the sale of weapons to the area. Of course, now many of these weapons are in the hands of those who despise America and will not stop at using them against American interests.
 
josie_L said:
Perhaps you are not aware of ISIS’s goals, i.e., it wishes to create a caliphate, that means if we allow them to continue as they are they will only spread further, much like a cancer.

p.s. And please do me a favour and forego the sarcasm, it’s not polite.
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Yeah, and Saddam wanted to destroy the world with WMDs…( I will obligingly remove the sarcastic smilies)

Sorry, been there, done that.

What is a caliphate to fear when you have people: governments their supporters and their opponents alike, who will willingly kill men, women, children ***of their own country *** over some ancient feud?
 
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seekerz:
Quote:

Originally Posted by josie L

Although I never agreed to an invasion of Iraq, the Middle East will implode if the U.S. does not interfere, I do not think I exaggerate when I say this.

When have we ever stopped interfering? Syria has been imploding for what, 3 yrs, where’s the fire suddenly? What is so special about Iraq?
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one could make that argument about anythingm

what so special about nigerian school girls? kidnappings are quite common.

Posted from Catholic.com App for Android
 
josie_L said:
It’s not an ad hominem if it’s true.
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Being true or not has nothing to do with the dictionary definition of ad hominem. An ad hominem argument is attacking an opponent’s personality, character or reputation rather than answering his argument.
And, BTW, I believe that the argument given by Professor Dr. Noam Chomsky here is well worth reading.
 
gilliam said:
ISIS’s goal is to create a borderless state called a caliphate in the Levant, which includes, Iraq, Syria, Jordan, Kuwait, Lebanon, and Israel and parts of Saudi Arabia and Iran.
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And the Kurds’ goal is to create a state that spans Turkey, Iraq and other Kurdish areas. Where’s the crime as it relates to us? Who created today’s present borders? How many wars have been created by artificially drawn borders in the ME and Africa? Not…one…more - ever, is my prayer.
 
HappyCatholic01 said:
one could make that argument about anythingm

what so special about nigerian school girls? kidnappings are quite common.

Posted from Catholic.com App for Android
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You are correct, except we never considered invading Nigeria to free the schoolgirls. 😉

I’m not saying there is no role for America here, but I remember the days when the first response to talk of war, were peace talks. Now it’s how fast can we pick a side and jump in before people realize there are no WMDs or global terrorist threats or whatever…
 
gilliam said:
ISIS’s goal is to create a borderless state called a caliphate in the Levant, which includes, Iraq, Syria, Jordan, Kuwait, Lebanon, and Israel and parts of Saudi Arabia.
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Which means there will be more violence, death and mayhem, i.e., there is no way these countries will comply with a caliphate, and there will be, as such, major wars.

p.s. And Israel does have mass weapons of destruction, so. . . . . .
 
seekerz said:
Yeah, and Saddam wanted to destroy the world with WMDs…( I will obligingly remove the sarcastic smilies)

Sorry, been there, done that.

What is a caliphate to fear when you have people: governments their supporters and their opponents alike, who will willingly kill men, women, children ***of their own country *** over some ancient feud?
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And the news reports indicate that the non-Christian citizens of Mosul have been quite welcoming to ISIS.
If the USA is so worried about the Christians in the area, they should have joined with Russia in opposing the terrorists in Syria who have been creating chaos. Instead, going against the wise policy of President Putin of Russian, the Americans supported a faction of the terrorist group seeking to overthrow Assad. Assad is not perfect, and reforms are needed, but at least Christians were not in fear of being beheaded under Assad, which is now their fear if an anti-Assad ISIS government comes in control.
 
josie_L said:
Which means there will be more violence, death and mayhem, i.e., there is no way these countries will comply with a caliphate, and there will be, as such, major wars.

p.s. And Israel does have mass weapons of destruction, so. . . . . .
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If they settle in with their gains in Iraq, expect to see Jordan attacked in the near future. There are a lot of Sunnis there who would side with them.
 
Tomdstone said:
And the news reports indicate that the non-Christian citizens of Mosul have been quite welcoming to ISIS.
If the USA is so worried about the Christians in the area, they should have joined with Russia in opposing the terrorists in Syria who have been creating chaos. Instead, going against the wise policy of President Putin of Russian, the Americans supported a faction of the terrorist group seeking to overthrow Assad. Assad is not perfect, and reforms are needed, but at least Christians were not in fear of being beheaded under Assad, which is now their fear if an anti-Assad ISIS government comes in control.
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Sorry, but I will not pick a side - not even the one identified as the Christian side, particularly in Syria. Where were the voices of the Christians when the atrocities were only directed elsewhere? A child is a child is a child is a child. Speaking up in defense of the defenseless is the duty of any and all Christians.

Blessed are the peacemakers. Now is the golden opportunity for Christians everywhere to stand up in support of all innocent life and against all atrocities. No exceptions. No fancy footwork. No picking sides. Force them to choose between peace and mutual self-destruction.
 
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