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ShynSup
Guest
No you havent at all.
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Aloysium
Guest
Previously, you said:
So, I was asking you where in the Bible it says that man was created 6,000 years ago,
and that is all you could come up with.
But, I’m starting to think . . .
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ShynSup
Guest
Yea, you do that, doesnt seem like you ve been thinking recently.
All I could came up with? Me? Saint Agustine sir.
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Jon_S_1
Guest
I thought you said the Bible will do.
So show me where in the Bible does it say the earth is 6,000 years old.
Heck, where does it say the bible is a science book
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Jon_S_1
Guest
Nailed it…
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Aloysium
Guest
So, you are clarifying that the Bible is not necessarily the only truth.
According to what you say about St Augustine’s approach, we have to interpret what is written to discern the truth.
I would agree with you here.
Maybe we should then look at where in the Bible it says that mankind cannot be older than 6,000 years.
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ShynSup
Guest
The bible is totally compatible with real science, not a single word in the Bible has ever been disproved by science.
God is not physical being, but is he shapeless? Even in the second resurrection we will get our bodies back in heaven…
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ShynSup
Guest
Oooh, the misqoute, good one.
Followed by “Of course, these needs to be accompanied with the Holy Tradition. which derivates from the word of God, that is why I am a Catholic”
Smart to mess things up.
Same as going tomchurch, confession, The Holy Eucharist, and every other doctrine derivates from the bible, so does the statement of Agustine.
Maybe you should look up how Agustine got to such number using the bible.
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Jon_S_1
Guest
Yeah he traced genealogies to Adam. Even if Adam was 6000 years ago it says NOTHING of the world/universe before Adam
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ShynSup
Guest
So before those 6000 years all was immortal? No sin=no death.
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Jon_S_1
Guest
No there were no human beings as we know them. No humans just animals before Adam.
Sin and it’s consequence affect humans not animals. Lions weren’t eating grass. T Rex wasn’t eating leaves.
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ShynSup
Guest
Actually animals became carnivores after the fall.
The fall affected the whole earth, thats why there is disease, and thats why animals get sick too. If not, they would be inmmune.
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Jon_S_1
Guest
Now let’s try this on for size.
According to you,
Adam was created along with the world 6,000 years ago. So it’s been 2000 years since Christ which means all of this happened around 4,000 BC
OK
NOAH WAS born approximately 1,000 years after Adam was created. And the flood happened when Noah was 600 years old.
So that means the global flood occurred around the year 2,400 BC
And yet we have WRITTEN manuscripts dating to that time from other cultures (Assyrians, Egyptians, Hindus, Chinese, and none of these speak of being destroyed by flood during this time.
So either the flood did not happen or it happened way before you think it happened.
Seeing as most cultures and religions have a flood story I would say it definitely happened, but the fact that none of the cultures of the time document it and business carried on as usual, it must not have happened in 2400 BC.
RESPOND WITH FACTS PLEASE
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Judas_Thaddeus
Guest
Not going to waste time searching, you just tell me the #-ID
of the response, like the one I’m answering now is “#124.”
And again, you’re the one giving the ad hominem attacks.
Science does not conclude whether the first soul-endowed human beings suf-
fered sickness or death before the Fall, that is outside the scope of science.
And what’s this about equality and inferiority? Evolution simply does not say
anything like that. Such is what Creationists are putting in Science’s mouth.
I believe in survival of the fittest, not as a contest so to speak, but as a natural principle.
A species either does well and reproduces or something happens and they go extinct.
God, however, led nature to produce Man, a species that is capable of caring for the
sick, deformed, elderly, etc, we were a people, attending to each others ailments,
and so much more . . . Yes, evidence and reason is very much in reflection to
how God made us.
Well with Jesus and the resurrection, we have to rely on faith there, ESPECIALLY
seeing how there is no evidence for or even AGAINST the resurrection. Bad argu–
ment there. In the case of the Geology, Biology, etc, we can find evidence to see
whether the Genesis is 100% literal or not. Challenge Again: You show me some-
thing that proves beyond a shadow of a doubt that birds flew before cattle walked
and I might just give a a thumbs up.
First: Your Catholic and are using the KJV? Yes I see the “N”, but that is
still a BAD translation, though I digress. Anyway, I thought the Bible said
that God made light in the beginning. Also, you’ll find that in Genesis that
there are two different Stories of Creation. In one, we find God created the
Animals THEN humans, male & female, but in the second, God made all
plants, but there was no man to tend to them. Then God made Adam. He
then caused that all animal life come forth and have Adam name them all.
ONLY AFTER THAT is the Female Human made. So which story should
we be taking literally? Genesis Chapter One or Two? Neither stories are
literal accounts, understand.
Scientifically, we don’t know, but that doesn’t make Creationists correct just because
they have an opinion. Maybe God’s rest began on the 144th hour of the existence of
the universe and continued working after the 168th hour of Creation, who knows for
sure on a scientific level? I simply accept the evidence that is shown and believe
that God has a definite answer to these mysteries.
Evolution doesn’t necessarily mean “Life is getting better,” like you suggest its claiming.
At some point, we humans were perfect. We don’t know when. We don’t know how long,
though we can speculate that it wasn’t for so long. The first soul-endowed humans who
were perfect from the beginning then sinned, now we get sick and suffer other disasters
that we might not have had to had we not sinned.
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Jon_S_1
Guest
Why did lions and T Rex have carnivorous teeth then?
What did Mosquitos eat?
What did worms and insects eat?
God created the world to function. It would quickly dis function and fail without the checks God put in place called food chain.
Did he not tell Adam to take the whole earth and use it? To eat animals? Before the fall (hence death)
29 Then God said, “I give you every seed-bearing plant on the face of the whole earth and every tree that has fruit with seed in it. They will be yours for food. 30 And to all the beasts of the earth and all the birds in the sky and all the creatures that move along the ground—everything that has the breath of life in it—I give every green plant for food.” And it was so.
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Gorgias
Guest
I’m assuming that this is an allusion to Rom 5:12 – “Therefore, just as through one person sin entered the world, and through sin, death” – right?
This is the common argument, of course: prior to Adam, there was no sin, and therefore, there was no death, right?
The problem is, that’s not at all what Paul is talking about. He’s not asserting anything about the death of plants or animals – just the death of people! How do I know this? Simple: I look at Scripture. In Rom 5:12, Paul continues, “thus, death came to all, inasmuch as all sinned”, and again, in Rom 5:19, “just as through the disobedience of one person the many were made sinners.” Umm… pardon? death comes through personal sin? Oh, OK, then: if you want to claim that there was no death on earth until Adam, then you have to claim that rocks, plants, and animals are capable of sin. If they’re incapable of sin, then ‘inasmuch as they didn’t sin’, then the kind of death Paul is talking about didn’t “come to [them] all”, and therefore, the death that same from Adam’s sin isn’t what Paul is talking about, in the context of actors incapable of moral action.
Let’s review, then: the death that Paul is talking about in Rom 5:12 is the death of those who are capable of sin. If plants and animals are incapable of personal sin – and, umm… duh! – then their deaths aren’t what Paul is talking about in this context, and therefore, we can’t use Rom 5:12 to demonstrate that evolutionary death of non-human beings contradicts Scripture.
See how easy this is?
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Jon_S_1
Guest
So let’s sum up:
Shynsup
But if it walks like a troll and sounds like a troll…
Shynsup
- uses KJV
- is a young earth creationist
- believed the Bible is supreme authority
- the bible is literal
- the bible is science
- Saints are infallible
- Augustine is infallible
- Satan had infiltrated the Vatican
- the church does not condemn homosexual sin
- Quotes from CARM (anti catholic fundie Calvinist site) on other threads.
But if it walks like a troll and sounds like a troll…
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Judas_Thaddeus
Guest
uh . . . I know, because the Bible and science are not dealing with the same issues.
But let’s assume a moment that they are: We do know that the stars existed before
the Earth. We know that land animals existed before birds. We know that the Earth
goes around the Sun, not the Sun RISING in the EAST and SETTING in the WEST.
We know these things because of SCI-ence.
God does not eternally have a shape either. You’re the one now, I think, who’s going
heretical on us. As for the second resurrection, assuming you mean after Jesus re-
turns, I don’t see how that is relevant to either the discussion or the “shape of God”.
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Judas_Thaddeus
Guest
:clapping::clapping::clapping::clapping::clapping::clapping::clapping:____:clapping:
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ShynSup
Guest
Actually:
29 And God said, “See, I have given you every herb that yields seed which is on the face of all the earth, and every tree whose fruit yields seed; eto you it shall be for food. 30 Also, to fevery beast of the earth, to every gbird of the air, and to everything that creeps on the earth, in which there is 9life, I have given every green herb for food”; and it was so.
It was after the flood that man was allowed tomeat animals as food: Genesis 9:3
Both animals and humans had a vegetarian diet before the fall. I am quite sure T-rex could est fruit with those teeths. Also, God knew of the fall, and so he had already designed it for animals to change into meat and blood eaters, causing suffering and death.
Invertebrates do not fall into the same category: The Bible never uses the Hebrew term nephesh chayyah (living soul/creature) when referring to invertebrates, but it does when referring to humans and fish (Genesis 1:20; 2:7). Also, insects do not have the same sort of “blood” that vertebrates do, yet “the life of the flesh is in the blood” (Leviticus 17:11). You could say some animal ate invertebrates if you want.
Mosquitos eating blood is not exactly equal to pain suffering and death.
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