Joe Biden: I support abortion ‘under any circumstance’

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And I did not place you in the pro-abortion crowd … I read your posts … my point is - the politicians cannot do it all by themselves … and the proof is in lots of legislation at the state and federal level … and in the judges people vote for and the politicians elected to vote for and or against legislation and appoint the judges that are appointed not elected …

That partial birth abortion ban is exactly proof that votes do matter …that small victory was HARD FOUGHT for …

I too, wish we had accomplished more … but that legislative ‘win’ is why we have not made more progress.

I speak as someone who has also done much, housed a single mom and child, donate to homes for single moms, support crisis pregnancy centers, supported families considering abortion help them with food, utility, rent funds and baby needs - even in finding employment, child care, purchased health insurance for a mother and child, contributed to KOC Ultrasound initiatives … and pray, pray, pray. I also vote, vote vote …and never for the pro-Abortion platforms and candidates - ever

As long as Catholics vote for the pro-Abortion Democratic platform - our gains will forever fall short of where we hope …

And they will be here in the Forums asking . “so what have the Republicans done?” the answer of course is what you would expect without their support …

Now the Party of Planned Parenthood NARAL - the DNC … they just say “Thank you for your support” …
 
Pro abortion is a heresy - belief or opinion contrary to orthodox religious (especially Christian) doctrine. Catholic doctrine is pro life, so pro abortion is a heresy. Be careful voting for a candidate that proclaims a heresy!
 

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Karl Rove wrote an interesting piece for the Wall Street Journal today under the headline “Democrats Are Making Unforced Errors.” None of the examples he cites directly relate to our issues, but the point he is making is loud, clear, accurate, and wholly applicable to us. Pro-abortion former...
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And, being a pro-abortion extremist is nothing new for Joe Biden:
Voted NO on defining unborn child as eligible for SCHIP. (Mar 2008)
Voted NO on prohibiting minors crossing state lines for abortion. (Mar 2008)
Voted YES on expanding research to more embryonic stem cell lines. (Apr 2007) rem no success - only ADULT stem works
Voted NO on notifying parents of minors who get out-of-state abortions. (Jul 2006)
Voted NO on criminal penalty for harming unborn fetus during other crime. (Mar 2004)
Voted NO on maintaining ban on Military Base Abortions. (Jun 2000)
Voted NO on banning human cloning. (Feb 1998)
 
Dr_Meinheimer said:
From a Catholic perspective,
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From a Catholic perspective torture is intrinsically evil, and yet Mr. Trump has supported the use of torture. His CIA appointee, Gina Haspel is accused of
running a secret prison where inmates were tortured
and of destroying video evidence of the various tortures used there.
 
I am opposed to torture as well. In terms of orders of magnitude, which do you think occurs at a higher rate? Which causes a greater loss of life? Let’s be realistic. The proportionality of these things is often left out by the side seeking to defend their party…
 
Dr_Meinheimer said:
I am opposed to torture as well. In terms of orders of magnitude, which do you think occurs at a higher rate? Which causes a greater loss of life?
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Yes, it is true. Abortion does cause more loss of life. I am especially opposed to late term abortion, where the child is already there except for the umbilical cord, and then is killed. But I don’t see how i could support something which the Catholic Church says is intrinsically evil? IMHO, It is time for the US to have a multiparty system as they do in many other countries. Have you seen any interviews with the CIA director Gina Haspel and how she responds to questions about the morality of torture?
 
Dr_Meinheimer said:
From a Catholic perspective, Joe Biden is vile.
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What if he feels his votes were supported by the Constitution? I mean, we could list Reagan’s votes and policies against civil rights but folks here would melt if Reagan were called a racist. Reagan said his stances were because he thought that the Voting Right Act was ‘humiliating’ to some southern states. He kept ‘dog whistling’ about a ‘welfare queen’ long after he was informed that his stories were inaccurate. While Jimmy Carter, as a southern governor, was stating that the time for racial discrimination was over, Reagan was opposing the Civil Rights Act, the Voting Rights Act and the Fair Housing Act as governor of California. Reagan had no problem with Bob Jones University banning interracial dating, refused sanctions against the South African apartheid regime and had so few blacks in his cabinet that he mistook his HUD secretary for a big city mayor.

I’m not here to discuss Reagan (or Goldwater) but conservative folks seem to accept their (oh, so) principled stands against the constitutionality of civil rights legislation without accusing them of racism.

From conservatives, Joe Biden does not get that sort of leeway. If abortion is constitutional in the US, a Catholic who states such a fact should not be tarred as ‘vile’.
 
Nepperhan said:
What if he feels his votes were supported by the Constitution?
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Then that means he’s still vile but has found a way to excuse it. As a Catholic he knows better. He’s twice as vile as someone who doesn’t.
 
Nepperhan said:
If abortion is constitutional in the US, a Catholic who states such a fact should not be tarred as ‘vile’.
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I am not sure if torture is constitutional in the US or not. But both Democratic and Republican administrations have found a way of getting around that by the use of rendition and torturing people in other countries. With torture, it is the US government employees who are actually doing the torture. they are torturing people because their US government boss has told them to do so. And yet torture is intrinsically evil.
Of course abortion is also wrong, seriously so. But the Democrats are not advocating that government workers go ahead and order that a child be aborted. AFAIK, the pro-choice Democrats are saying that they do not advocate punishing, imprisoning, or hanging a woman who kills her unborn child. Of course I disagree that the woman has any right to choose to kill her unborn child, but it is not the government which is ordering that this be done. No one in the government is ordered by a government official higher up to kill an unborn child? correct?
So would it be vile for government officials to order people to commit an act (torture) which is intrinsically evil?
I don’t think it is just Trump and his appointee Haspel who support torture, as there are others in both parties who appear to be OK with torture.
 
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AlNg said:
So would it be vile for government officials to order people to commit an act (torture) which is intrinsically evil?
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Depends on what one considers torture. But one thing is almost always true, as I understand it. People who have undergone torture at the hands of Americans live. Babies who are aborted almost never do. And if they survive it, they’re killed directly.

But I don’t think anyone would argue that a society that, e.g., allows murder of the elderly is not a corrupt society. The mere fact that one allows a supreme evil but does not directly order it does not change the moral turpitude of it.
 
Uncertain provenance and even causation in some, and 100 deaths during 8 years, probably none deliberate, do not remotely compare to a million deliberate killings per year.
 
Ridgerunner said:
Uncertain provenance and even causation in some, and 100 deaths during 8 years, probably none deliberate, do not remotely compare to a million deliberate killings per year.
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What should be done about the one million women who contract to murder their unborn children each year? Many will say to punish the doctor who was contracted by the woman to murder her child. But suppose that the doctor is not known or has died, but it is known that the unborn child was murdered by its mother who had ordered that this be done. Should there be any repercussions for the mother who killed her child? Or nothing? Should the punishment be:
A talk by the judge that this was not a good thing to do and a plea not to do this again?
A fine of $5 or higher say $25000.
A few days of community service, say feeding the hungry at a soup kitchen.
A jail term of a few years.
A long term in the penitentiary with hard labor.
Capital punishment?
Or do nothing at all?
 
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To my knowledge, there has never been a study of:
  1. How many abortions are done under pressure by others, e.g. boyfriend, pimp, relatives.
  2. How many women sustain lasting psych damage after having had an abortion.
  3. How many have repeat abortions and why they do.
I do know that in the womens’ birthing shelters of which I know, protection of the women is a very big thing because of #1. I would be hesitant to attempt a response to your question without knowing the things above. It is true that women have never been prosecuted for abortion before it was legal, because they were considered victims as well.
 
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Nepperhan said:
What if he feels his votes were supported by the Constitution?
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So it is a question of their conscience or the constitution?
If someone believes the constitution to be so anti-life, they would have a moral obligation to oppose it.
 
Ridgerunner said:
It is true that women have never been prosecuted for abortion before it was legal, because they were considered victims as well.
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It is difficult to believe that the woman is always the victim in all of the one million murders that take place each year? It does not seem credible. Would you support punishing a woman who murdered her unborn child if it was shown that she was acting freely and was not the victim. Would you give her a fine of $5 or would you recommend life in prison with hard labor? the pro-choice Democrats say that no prosecution or punishment of the woman who aborted her child is in order. Do you agree with the pro-choice advocates on that?
 
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