John 2:4 - Is Jesus being harsh to his Mother?

[saretse]

Peace to everyone!!!

OUR LORD JESUS CHRIST visited this world in fulfillment of the Scriptures. He was emphatic and repetitive in declaring that mission statement throughout the duration of His teaching ministry. The limitless and immortal GOD limited Himself and worked within the parameters and framework of the Holy Book of Truth. Ergo, everything He uttered and performed has Scriptural basis and must be based on Scriptures and no other because that is what He followed and fulfilled. He did not subject Himself or limited Himself to any other catechetical manuscript.

The primary Scriptural basis why the Son of Man never addressed the virgin from Nazareth ‘Mother’ follows,” I will increase your suffering in childbearing and you will give birth to your children in pain.” (Genesis 3:16) Recall that such direct divine testimony was issued frontally to the insanely defiant woman immediately after she committed a series of fatal blunders. After double-crossing her Creator with the ingestion of the fruit of death in connivance with the wily serpent, she hid herself. When her back was against the wall, she threw her accusing fingers to others apart from herself for her willful and deliberate misdeed. She did not ask forgiveness for the lethal miscue and did not bother to address her Creator ‘Lord’ or ‘Master’. She failed to realize that as a creature she cannot be more than a slave. So, the direct testimony uttered on her face by her Creator was the curse of motherhood that GOD in His anger and Divine Justice imposed upon the woman who acted independently of GOD in conspiracy with Satan. That is the foremost Biblical reason why the Son of Man cannot and did not address the virgin from Nazareth ‘Mother’ throughout the duration of His visitation and even as a child in the temple. He would be imposing the curse upon Himself and He would negate the angelic salutation of the FATHER that the virgin from Nazareth is the ‘blessed among women’. He can never do that because He is one with the FATHER and the HOLY SPIRIT and it was the FATHER who imposed the curse on the woman with the serpentine seal. It is very clear that natural motherhood is a curse. It is not a gift. On the basis of Scriptural logic, natural motherhood never existed prior to the commission of the most heinous crime in the history of mankind. (It was a heinous crime because the insanely defiant couple was thrown out of the garden and was meted the sentence of natural death.)

It is very clear then from Sacred Scriptures that the natural mother is not a creation of GOD. It was the negative aftermath of a divine woman that acted independently of GOD and embraced and savored the words of the ancient serpent that made her human and a cursed woman that all women in this world from generation to generation inherited including the obscure virgin from the little infamous town of Nazareth. However, when GOD THE FATHER chose the virgin as His ‘highly favored daughter’ and ‘blessed among women’ and upon her wholehearted acceptance of such as ‘the handmaid of the Lord’, her identity as a cursed woman was blotted out in an instant. That is the transforming power of His word that He applied upon His chosen one. As ‘blessed among women’, the curse of natural motherhood was extinguished that she will no longer conceive and give birth naturally. Her conception by the ‘power of the HOLY SPIRIT’ is incontestably not natural and scientific. Likewise, the birth of the Son of Man cannot be natural but divine because the curse of natural motherhood was lifted. It is for this reason that she addressed her ‘Woman’. She is the ‘Woman of GOD’. As the highly favored daughter of the FATHER, she is ‘Woman’ of GOD THE FATHER. She conceived by the power of the HOLY SPIRIT. Hence, she is ‘Woman’ of GOD THE HOLY SPIRIT. She delivered the Son of GOD. Then, she is ‘Woman’ of GOD THE SON. The Son of Man never called the virgin ‘Mother’ because she is not the mother of the FATHER. She is His daughter. Obviously, she is not the mother of the HOLY SPIRIT. Had The Rabbi called the virgin ‘Mother’ He would be acting independently of the FATHER and the HOLY SPIRIT and He would be contradicting and demolishing the Oneness an Indivisibility of the HOLY TRINITY – the supernatural identity or divinity of the one and only absolute reality who is GOD. There simply is no Scriptural basis of labeling the virgin from Nazareth ‘Mother of GOD’. She is primarily and appropriately the ‘Woman’ of GOD. That is very explicit and undeniable in the Sacred Scriptures that He strictly followed and fulfilled.

Peace to everyone!!!

You may visit the blog The Rabbi’s Pupil: ‘Man and Woman: Origin and Fall’ at bloggers.com/home/.

 

[Agnes_Ainsworth]

Why Jesus did not call his Mother as Mother, but he just called her Woman in this verse…

From very early days, Justin Martyr and Irenaeus in the second century, the Church understood Mary as the “new Eve” and identified her as the “Woman” of Genesis 3:15. The translation in Douai version is “She” shall crush your head and the Church believes that Mary will play a large part in the final destruction of Satan. It is only Protestants in failing to see the connection of Jesus identifying His Mother with the “Woman” of Genesis (and also Revelation 12:1) who suggest Jesus is being disrespectful. Interestingly, other languages do not always have this problem. The Dutch language does not have the two words “Woman” and “Lady” so when Our Lady appeared to the visionary Ida Peerdeman in the 1950s, She requested the Title of “Lady of all Nations” which means of course “Woman of all Nations” verifying Her role as the Mother of all people whether Christians or not, as designated by Jesus’ words from the cross to John: “Woman behold your son”. When Our Lady appeared to St Catherine Laboure requesting that a medal be struck, - the Immaculate Conception medal, later known as the Miraculous Medal, all the details were Scriptural including Her crushing the head of the serpent. This was a verification of what the Church had always understood that “She” would crush the serpents head. Modern translations of the Bible say “He” or “it”. I’m told that Hebrew does not use personal pronouns. It seems to be a debatable point, which needs experts to explain.

 

[Roy5]

LUKE 8:19-20

 In Luke 8:19-20 Jesus seems even more dismissive of his mother. This is he only other reference to Mary in the gospels between the birth and crucifixion of Christ. 

 And why is it that St. Paul, the great apostle, never mentions Mary once in all of his letters found in the scriptures?

  To me, this suggests that some well-meaning Catholics (among them even professors) carry their adulation of Mary too far.

 

[Agnes_Ainsworth]

LUKE 8:19-20

 In Luke 8:19-20 Jesus seems even more dismissive of his mother. This is he only other reference to Mary in the gospels between the birth and crucifixion of Christ. 

 And why is it that St. Paul, the great apostle, never mentions Mary once in all of his letters found in the scriptures?

  To me, this suggests that some well-meaning Catholics (among them even professors) carry their adulation of Mary too far.

John 16:12-13
Jesus said; “I have many things to say to you, but they would be too much for you now. But when the Spirit comes, He will lead you to the complete truth…and He will tell you of the things to come.”

Mary prophesied that “all generations will call me blessed”. That is exactly what the Catholic Church has been doing, guided by the Holy Spirit, since Jesus promised Peter; “Whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven”. This covers how the Church interpreted Scripture, as my previous post shows.

 

[Joe_Kelley]

19* Then his mother and his brethren came to him, but they could not reach him for the crowd. 20 And he was told, “Your mother and your brrethren are standing outside, desiring to see you.” 21* But he said to them, “My mother and my brethren are those who hear the word of God and do it.”

Luke 9:19-21 Does the greatness of Mary derive from the act of bearing Jesus or from her perfect response to the word of God? Her greatness is not in the physical relationship, but in the perfect submission to God’s Will.

 

[puzzleannie]

if it is a “great compliment” to address a female as “woman” why does this question pop up so regularly on these forums? it certainly ought to be a compliment, but evidently those who pose the question don’t think so, and I am still waiting to hear why.

 

[Guitar]

I am woman hear me roar

no- seriously --I really want to know why anyone in today’s culture would automatically assume addressing and adult female as “Woman” is negative, perjorative, insulting or disrespectful.

In the UK and Australia, at least, it is only used as a form of address when the speaker is “having a go” or being impatient.

“Aww, come on, woman, get moving willya, we’ll never b- get there at this rate”, kind of thing. Maybe that’s why some people think this?

 

[Agnes_Ainsworth]

A Roman Catholic who understood the role of Mary who we call “Our Lady” (in the same way we call Jesus “Our Lord”), never sees the interpretation of John 2:4, John 19:26 and Luke 8:19-20 as implying disrespect to her. Only Protestants (spoken not in a pejorative way) who deny Mary’s role in Salvation History, have to look for ways to discredit her. In doing so, they are certainly not calling Her Blessed ( Luke 1:48).

Once again, the problem is due to the heresy of Sola Scriptura which makes every Protestant, infallible, or so it seems to me by the way they adamantly “know” they are right. Jehovah’s Witnesses tell me they have the cleverest Scripture scholars in the world and therefore, they must be right! Looking at the thousands of denominations of “Bible alone” Christians, the only doctrine common to them all is the belief that the only Church which is not infallible is the one that has existed for two thousand years that actually chose the books of the Bible i.e. the Roman Catholic Church. So what is Truth?

As a new member, I am reluctantly coming to the conclusion that many contributors to this Forum are not genuine enquirers as to how Catholics interpret Scriptures, but just out to attack the Church. Our Lady told the visionaries in Medjugorje,not to argue about their faith but just to live it by loving and praying from the heart for all Her children whether Christians or not. That is why I believe in praying together with other Christans wherever possible such as the Women’s Day of Prayer just held last Friday. Unity, as desired by Jesus will only be achieved through prayer.

 

[Orionthehunter]

if it is a “great compliment” to address a female as “woman” why does this question pop up so regularly on these forums? it certainly ought to be a compliment, but evidently those who pose the question don’t think so, and I am still waiting to hear why.

The silence is always deafening. Oh, how our Lord’s heart must break when He contemplates the insult and denigration that His Mother endures because of the respect she is shown by the Catholic Church.

 

[kepha1]

John 2
3] When the wine failed, the mother of Jesus said to him, “They have no wine.”
4] And Jesus said to her, “O woman, what have you to do with me? My hour has not yet come.”
5] His mother said to the servants, *“Do whatever he tells you.” *

“what have you to do with me”, is a Hebrew idiom which means to defer authority. The Wedding Feast at Cana foreshadows the Great Wedding Feast in Revelation which would follow His “hour”. What Jesus is saying is, “You are the Queen, do your job.” She did. She spoke to the servants.

This same idiom is found in
Luke 4
34] “Ah! What have you to do with us, Jesus of Nazareth? Have you come to destroy us? I know who you are, the Holy One of God.”

The demons are defering to the authority of Jesus.

This “deference of authority” as expressed as an idiom is found in places outside scripture as well. It is explained in Scott Hahn’s book, “Hail Holy Queen, the Mother of God in the Word of God.”

Bottom line: Jesus acknowledges Mary’s role and position as Queen of the New Davidic Kingdom to instruct servants. To do what?

 

[Agnes_Ainsworth]

The silence is always deafening. Oh, how our Lord’s heart must break when He contemplates the insult and denigration that His Mother endures because of the respect she is shown by the Catholic Church.

I am so puzzled by this statement! How can respect ever be insulting or denigrating? I invite you to look up the details of the third century prayer, Sub Tuum Praesidium, the original papyrus is in the John Rylands Library in Manchester, England, and recited continually for almost eighteen hundred years.

“We fly to thy patronage, O Holy Mother of God. Despise not our petitions in our necessities, but deliver us from all dangers, most glorious and blessed virgin”.

Mary has been honoured and revered ever since her cousin Elizabeth greeted her in prophecy: “How is it that the Mother of my Lord should come to me”. From thence Mary was given the title “Mother of God” even though it was only declared a dogma in 431 AD at the Council of Ephesus. An excellent example of the development of dogma as the Holy Spirit led the Church into all truth.

 

[Antegin]

Exegenesis has to take into consideration the passage of time and the CULTURAL influences on the actual meaning of phrases. Consider how in 2000 years, my nephew’s declaration in 1998 might be subject to misinterpretation,

“The Mother of Guadelupe is dope!”

 

[Joe_Kelley]

Possibly a better translation would be Lady or Ma’am.

 

[Orionthehunter]

I am so puzzled by this statement! How can respect ever be insulting or denigrating? I invite you to look up the details of the third century prayer, Sub Tuum Praesidium, the original papyrus is in the John Rylands Library in Manchester, England, and recited continually for almost eighteen hundred years.

“We fly to thy patronage, O Holy Mother of God. Despise not our petitions in our necessities, but deliver us from all dangers, most glorious and blessed virgin”.

Mary has been honoured and revered ever since her cousin Elizabeth greeted her in prophecy: “How is it that the Mother of my Lord should come to me”. From thence Mary was given the title “Mother of God” even though it was only declared a dogma in 431 AD at the Council of Ephesus. An excellent example of the development of dogma as the Holy Spirit led the Church into all truth.

Please read this in context of what puzzle is asking. I’m referring to our separated breathren are so willing to insult and denigrate the Blessed Mother because they fear appearing “Catholic”.

 

[Agnes_Ainsworth]

Please read this in context of what puzzle is asking. I’m referring to our separated breathren are so willing to insult and denigrate the Blessed Mother because they fear appearing “Catholic”.

I offer my sincere apologies for misunderstanding you. Please forgive me!

 

[ZuzuBailey]

IMO.
I thought it was rude/offending for his mother to ask such a thing of him. I completely understand his remark.

 

[ZuzuBailey]

Why Jesus did not call his Mother as Mother, but he just called her Woman in this verse…

Good News Bible
with Deuterocanonicals/Apocrypha
(my catholic school bible)

" You must not tell me what to do,"jesus said,“My time has not yet come”

 

[Nita]

IMO.
I thought it was rude/offending for his mother to ask such a thing of him. I completely understand his remark.

Hi Zuzu,

Mary didn’t “ask” Jesus to provide wine - she just let Him know that the family had run out of wine.

John 2: 3-4 *And the wine failing, the mother of Jesus saith to Him, “They have no wine.” And Jesus saith to her: “Woman, what is that to Me and to thee? My hour is not yet come.” *

Nita

 

[Joe_Kelley]

I once ran into this summary of the Gospels:

At age 12 Jesus was in the Temple preaching and told Mary that He was God and had to be about His Father’s business. Mary told Him that was for later. Today, He was a little Jewish boy and should come home and gather some firewood so she could cook supper and take out the trash.

At Cana, Mary says remember when I told You that I would tell You when to start on Your Father’s business. Well, He and I have decided that today is the day.

 

[pjz]

I once ran into this summary of the Gospels:

At age 12 Jesus was in the Temple preaching and told Mary that He was God and had to be about His Father’s business. Mary told Him that was for later. Today, He was a little Jewish boy and should come home and gather some firewood so she could cook supper and take out the trash.

At Cana, Mary says remember when I told You that I would tell You when to start on Your Father’s business. Well, He and I have decided that today is the day.