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daraku
Guest
Why Jesus did not call his Mother as Mother, but he just called her Woman in this verse…
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pjz
Guest
My understanding is this: This passage begins the public ministry of Jesus, the new Adam who came to make all things new. In calling his mother “woman”, Jesus is hearkening back to Genesis 3:15, which points to a 2nd or new Eve. In Genesis 3, Eve had sinned and God had condemned the serpent. God then said “I wil put enmity between you and the woman, between your seed and her seed; he shall crush your head, and you shall lie in wait for his heel.” The 'he" doing the crushing will, of course, be Jesus Christ, the new Adam. With regard to the woman,notice 2 things: 1. there will be total enmity between the serpent and the woman, and 2. the woman’s seed will do the crushng. First, total enmity does NOT exist between Eve and the serpent, as she has already cooperated with the serpent and fallen. Secondly, in the OT, ‘seed’ with regard to offspring referred to male seed. This particular offspring will come from the seed of ‘woman’. It follows, then, that the woman referred to here is not Eve, but a “new Eve”, another ‘woman’ - one who will have no cooperation with the serpent (total enmity), and one whose seed produces the new Adam. This ‘woman’ is Mary, the ‘new Eve’. This is why, in John’s gospel, Jesus refers to Mary as ‘woman’. He is introducing her as the new Eve referred to in Genesis. The new Eve who cooperates with the new Adam in making all things new, leading to the redemption of mankind. Hope this helps.
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katy
Guest
Also, it is considered rude to address a woman as “woman” in this culture, but not, I am told in others. I haven’t researched this personally.
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bogeydogg
Guest
The greek word is a non-offensive non-specific female noun. In our language it would be roughly equivalent to ‘miss’ or ‘lady’. He is not condescending to her and neither is he being cruel to her. He is only speaking to her in the way any man would speak to his mother informally.
BTW, the greek word is pronounced goo-nay, it is a female derivative of the word which is the noun form of to exist.
BTW, the greek word is pronounced goo-nay, it is a female derivative of the word which is the noun form of to exist.
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Joe_Kelley
Guest
This reminds me of my wife’s initial distress when she overheard some Hispanics refer to her as what she interpreted as “old lady”. Then she realized that a more accurate, though less literal, translation is “honored elder”. 
I see that this would make a very strong argument in favor of the Douay Rheims translation of Genesis 3:15. (viz. using the feminine “her” seed (ipsa) as opposed to “its” seed (ipsum) that the NAB prefers. 
)
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Orionthehunter
Guest
My interpretation is pretty similar.
It is a reference back to Eve. But it is also Jesus talking to Mary not as her son but now as God. And, then despite His statement that His time has not yet come, He responds to her as son (and not God) and does as she asks out of respect. To me it is the most powerful statement that we are to hold Mary in high regard because Jesus as God even showed her respect by appearing to submit to her will. I say appearing because God doesn’t submit to anyone. It is a way to show that Mary’s will is in conformance to God’s will.
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Huiou_Theou
Guest
There are two considerations here, first Mary was invited to the wedding – and Jesus came because of her, and ALL THOSE DISCIPLES came because of Jesus.
Now, the Groom was not extravagently rich – and where was the wine to come from for the extra burden of all those disciples???
I do not know Aramaic, but apparently the sentence quoted in the OP is an expression of “what is this to us?” – eg: why does it matter that the host is out of wine? How does this fit with necessity of our mission? or again: Jesus made not bread for himself in the desert, why wine here? and again, I can’t be executed yet – it isn’t my hour. – so what he is really asking, is how does this fit with our mission?
In doing so, he presents a problem to Mary – which she promptly solves by placing someone lower than herself, a servant, under Jesus’ command – Mary tells the servant – “Do whatever he says.” placing the faith of a servant in his mother’s authority over him – under Jesus’ mission to reveal God for faith.
Now, the Groom was not extravagently rich – and where was the wine to come from for the extra burden of all those disciples???
I do not know Aramaic, but apparently the sentence quoted in the OP is an expression of “what is this to us?” – eg: why does it matter that the host is out of wine? How does this fit with necessity of our mission? or again: Jesus made not bread for himself in the desert, why wine here? and again, I can’t be executed yet – it isn’t my hour. – so what he is really asking, is how does this fit with our mission?
In doing so, he presents a problem to Mary – which she promptly solves by placing someone lower than herself, a servant, under Jesus’ command – Mary tells the servant – “Do whatever he says.” placing the faith of a servant in his mother’s authority over him – under Jesus’ mission to reveal God for faith.
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puzzleannie
Guest
why on earth would anyone assume the term “woman” is perjorative, rude or disrespectful?
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EphelDuath
Guest
There’s a cultural boundary here. “Woman” in the ancient Israelite context was the highest compliment you could give to a female.
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MH84
Guest
Alright woman, you made your point.
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MH84
Guest
Is it possible that Jesus was calling her “woman” because He created her, and that was how God could have referred to His creatures without in any way being disrespectful?
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MH84
Guest
Evidence? The reason I ask is because you are making it sound like an absolute fact.
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puzzleannie
Guest
I am woman hear me roar
no- seriously --I really want to know why anyone in today’s culture would automatically assume addressing and adult female as “Woman” is negative, perjorative, insulting or disrespectful.
no- seriously --I really want to know why anyone in today’s culture would automatically assume addressing and adult female as “Woman” is negative, perjorative, insulting or disrespectful.
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Orionthehunter
Guest
In fact it is a great compliment.
po18guy
Well-known member
This coincides well with John 19:26-27 where Jesus’ last physical act on earth is to give John to Mary (“Woman”) as her son (since Jesus was soon to ascend) and Mary to John as his mother. This also defends Mary’s perpetual virginity. She was a widow by this time, If she had other children to care for her, Jesus would not have taken her from them by giving her to John. History records that Mary then travelled out of the holy land with John.
Jesus had great compassion on widows. Witness Luke 7:11, where Jesus raised the widow of Nain’s son and presented him alive to her, since she had no means of support and would be reduced to begging for subsistence. His love of widows is also evidenced in Luke 21:1-4 and Mark 13:41-44, as he specifically made the poor widow a teaching for His disciples.
Christ’s peace.
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CathFaith1
Guest
Just a thought, yet if one is hung up on an ultra-individualistic world view - they may want to be addressed as the unique name they feel honors them as a unique individual.
I’m not as opposed to being refered to as man - I am human being afterall?
It is interesting the non-formal addresses I’ve heard over the years went from “Hey man” to “Yo Mister”…
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Huiou_Theou
Guest
Although there is much in the replies, there is also the possibility that like “hey man”, and other such unusual social titles – that Jesus merely picks out this name to remove Mary from a personal plane as “mother” or person as “Mary” to hilight something avant garde in her role – the role of woman.
He then goes on In the second part of the sentence speaking of “you and me” – woman and “me”. What does miraculous wine have to do with a woman and Jesus?
The neighbors will talk…
He then goes on In the second part of the sentence speaking of “you and me” – woman and “me”. What does miraculous wine have to do with a woman and Jesus?
The neighbors will talk…
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Zooey
Guest
I wondered the same thing…
Look, you all, I remember the first time someone called me “ma’am” instead of “miss”…It was in a store, and I carefully squelched the desire tohttp://bestsmileys.com/angry1/25.gif flatten the young whipper-snapperhttp://bestsmileys.com/angry1/4.gif, andhttp://bestsmileys.com/angry1/16.gif feed him to my cousin’s goat…
and then I remembered, that
she doesn’t have a goat; several sheep, many chickens & rabbits. A half-dozen each dogs & cats, and a burning desire for a peacock. But, no goats…So, I told myself that, since “ma’am” is proper to call the queen of England, that I could live with it too. (No matter how old it made me feel…
).Which is really what Jesus was doing here, you see: He was saying, “Ma’am” to the lady who would one day be the real queen,not some trumped up human imitation. The Queen of Heaven.
Sounds:thumbsup: mighty fine to me.
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LilyM
Guest
No need to research - my Uncle (from Bosnia-Herzegovina) calls his dearly loved wife of many years, my Aunt, by a term which in Croatian translates as ‘woman’. He never means by it anything other than a term of love, respect and endearment.
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