John 3:16

[DD2007]

Yes, and the post you agreed with includes doing something, in addition to trusting and believing… So, you believe we must do something as well? So, I guess it’s not really a case where this verse needed no further explanation. The passage could easily be the topic of an entire book, or several.

Do something in regards to what? Are you trying to insinuate that I should have written a large statement about this verse to explain why it says what it does? Do you think this verse should say that whoever believes on him and works to earn their salvation will have everlasting life? Is that what you are wanting to say?

 

[Nicholas_II]

I just meant trusting Christ to be what he said he is and to do what he said he would.
QUOTE]

I believe that. Can you tell me where this becomes trust?

 

[MDK]

I think that if you’re concerned at all about your soul it is evidence that you have been touched by grace. The scripture has meaning for you. Discuss whatever you would like. Hopefully about John 3:16.

I think it is a great comfort to know that we have a loving God.

On a side note Scott Hahn pointed out in one of his books that when Abraham was on Moriah where he was going to sacrifice Issac and the Lord stopped him. Issac had asked where the ram was to be sacrificed. Abraham responded, “The Lord will provide”

Hahn said this was a forshadowing of God sacrificing His own son not far from that very spot thousands of years in the future.

To me it’s almost like the entire bible branches out from this verse.

Thank you. Glad you like Scott Hahn, as he is a has become a very decent and qualified scholar later in life. I like him as well.

I believe that Scott Hahn would agree that by believing in Christ does mean that we believe His entire Gospel, doing whatever he says (as His mother Mary advised to the stewards at the wedding in Cana), thereby we receive God’s gift of Grace through a living faith working in love.

 

[DD2007]

DD2007;4724100:

I just meant trusting Christ to be what he said he is and to do what he said he would.
QUOTE]

I believe that. Can you tell me where this becomes trust?

I believe that is trust. That you trust (believe) in someone to do what they said they will do or to be what they say they are…etc

I don’t really have another single word that I can use to reflect what I feel believing in someone means.

 

[DD2007]

Thank you. Glad you like Scott Hahn, as he is a has become a very decent and qualified scholar later in life. I like him as well.

I believe that Scott Hahn would agree that by believing in Christ does mean that we believe His entire Gospel, doing whatever he says (as His mother Mary advised to the stewards at the wedding in Cana), thereby we receive God’s gift of Grace through a living faith working in love.

I believe that as well. God’s gift of salvation is by His grace which gives us faith in Christ which drives us to work out of the desire given us to build up the kingdom of God.

 

[MDK]

Do something in regards to what? Are you trying to insinuate that I should have written a large statement about this verse to explain why it says what it does? Do you think this verse should say that whoever believes on him and works to earn their salvation will have everlasting life? Is that what you are wanting to say?

The post you had said was a “very good explanation” included the sentence “If you do not do as He tells you, you do not believe His Word.” So, is it that you really do not agree with the meaning of this sentence as you had indicated earlier? If you want to clarify, or take back your support of that post, feel free to do so.

Do something in regard to what, means we must, as you had thought was a good explanation, do as He tells you to do.
**
No, Catholics don’t teach that we work to earn our Salvation.** Don’t know where you got that. If you’re confused about that, please let me know where the Catholic Church has ever taught this, because I’ve never seen it. So, no… I don’t want you to say something untrue. That would not be very Christian.

 

[MDK]

I believe that as well. God’s gift of salvation is by His grace which gives us faith in Christ which drives us to work out of the desire given us to build up the kingdom of God.

Thank you for your post. Our statements could be construed as not necessarily being in agreement. How would we have and keep living faith in God so that we receive His saving Grace?

 

[DD2007]

Thank you for your post. Our statements could be construed as not necessarily being in agreement. How would we have and keep living faith in God so that we receive His saving Grace?

They seem in agreement to me. We believe that salvation is by grace through faith and not of works.

We continue on by grace through prayer, hearing or reading the Word of God, and through the sacraments of Baptism (if it hasn’t been received before) and the Lord’s Supper. We do our best not to sin, but if we do we confess it to God and repent of it by turning away from it and not doing it anymore. We then do works that support the kingdom of God that we now want to do because of the grace God has given us. It all stems from this gift of God:

John 3:16

[16] For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.

 

[MDK]

They seem in agreement to me. We believe that salvation is by grace through faith and not of works.

We continue on by grace through prayer, hearing or reading the Word of God, and through the sacraments of Baptism (if it hasn’t been received before) and the Lord’s Supper. We do our best not to sin, but if we do we confess it to God and repent of it by turning away from it and not doing it anymore. We then do works that support the kingdom of God that we now want to do because of the grace God has given us. It all stems from this gift of God:

John 3:16

[16] For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.

Then no, your understanding is not necessarily in agreement. Your emphasis on “not of works” leads me to believe that you really don’t understand fully what I have said, and likely this comes from a misunderstanding involving what you erroneously believe about the Catholic Church’s teaching on salvation.

We are saved by Grace through living faith working in love. Faith without works is dead, and it’s not an option. What good then is dead faith? Will dead faith bring you saving Grace? Likewise, works without faith are of no avail. Neither will this bring you saving Grace. So, it’s not either/or, but both/and… faith and works, not one without the other.

 

[DD2007]

Then no, your understanding is not necessarily in agreement. Your emphasis on “not of works” leads me to believe that you really don’t understand fully what I have said, and likely this comes from a misunderstanding involving what you erroneously believe about the Catholic Church’s teaching on salvation.

We are saved by Grace through living faith working in love. Faith without works is dead, and it’s not an option. What good then is dead faith? Will dead faith bring you saving Grace? Likewise, works without faith are of no avail. Neither will this bring you saving Grace. So, it’s not either/or, but both/and… faith and works, not one without the other.

Oh. You didn’t say you held the Cathoilc position.

I believe salvation is by grace through faith and not of works. I believe works are of faith. I don’t think there is anything you can do to earn salvation. It only comes as a gift. All glory is to God.

Faith without works is indicitive that the faith is dead. So works are something that point to a person living in grace.

I used to be a Catholic once.

But I don’t want to debate. I just want to hear what John 3:16 means to you. What do you think about when you read it?

 

[MDK]

Oh. You didn’t say you held the Cathoilc position.

I believe salvation is by grace through faith and not of works. I believe works are of faith. I don’t think there is anything you can do to earn salvation. It only comes as a gift. All glory is to God.

Faith without works is indicitive that the faith is dead. So works are something that point to a person living in grace.

I used to be a Catholic once.

But I don’t want to debate. I just want to hear what John 3:16 means to you. What do you think about when you read it?

Yes, I’ve already told you, the full Gospel, which you sadly seem a bit confused about.

Faith is also a gift. May I please tell you, that when you reject works, you also reject living faith. So, if you believe that works should play no role at all in salvation, you are sadly wrong. Why do you seem to ignore what James has told us in Scriptures, that faith without works is dead? Why do you also seem to accuse falsely, ignoring what the Catholic Church teaches that no one can work their way to salvation? Do you recall what God’s eighth commandment is… about not bearing false witness? So, unfortunately, by continually ignoring, you make yourself “ignore-ant”. When you desire faith without works, then you reject grace. When you choose not to listen to those Christ sent, you also unfortunately reject Christ.

See, this is why I asked you in the beginning to define. Now we know how you have your own gospel, ignoring for some reason what Christ taught. Therefore, I can’t recommend that anyone join you in a meditation of false meaning of Christ’s teaching. I do recommend all who desire to be a true Christian to seek to follow the full Gospel of Christ. This is what you said you supported, but your words unfortunately betray that claim.

I have done a great service to you, in telling you the truth. If we really love Christ, we follow His word and don’t substitute men’s errant words for His. Faith without works is dead. Works without faith is useless. It’s not either/or it’s both/and… faith and works, just as recorded in Scriptures and taught infallibly by those whom Christ sent into the world to continue His mission.

Those who hold onto their falsehoods like a false security blanket certainly do not desire to be shown the truth. If they discuss it, the light of Truth illuminates their error.

 

[DD2007]

Yes, I’ve already told you, the full Gospel, which you sadly seem a bit confused about.

Faith is also a gift. May I please tell you, that when you reject works, you also reject living faith. So, if you believe that works should play no role at all in salvation, you are sadly wrong. Why do you seem to ignore what James has told us in Scriptures, that faith without works is dead? Why do you also seem to accuse falsely, ignoring what the Catholic Church teaches that no one can work their way to salvation? Do you recall what God’s eighth commandment is… about not bearing false witness? So, unfortunately, by continually ignoring, you make yourself “ignore-ant”. When you desire faith without works, then you reject grace. When you choose not to listen to those Christ sent, you also unfortunately reject Christ.

See, this is why I asked you in the beginning to define. Now we know how you have your own gospel, ignoring for some reason what Christ taught. Therefore, I can’t recommend that anyone join you in a meditation of false meaning of Christ’s teaching. I do recommend all who desire to be a true Christian to seek to follow the full Gospel of Christ. This is what you said you supported, but your words unfortunately betray that claim.

I have done a great service to you, in telling you the truth. If we really love Christ, we follow His word and don’t substitute men’s errant words for His. Faith without works is dead. Works without faith is useless. It’s not either/or it’s both/and… faith and works, just as recorded in Scriptures and taught infallibly by those whom Christ sent into the world to continue His mission.

Those who hold onto their falsehoods like a false security blanket certainly do not desire to be shown the truth. If they discuss it, the light of Truth illuminates their error.

You have a full misunderstanding of my beliefs pertaining to the Ordo Salutis. Which if discussed would be a bit off topic as it consists of a complete soterology. It has been proven easy for people to get stuck somewhere in the middle of this and miss the point that Paul, Augustine, Aquinas, Luther, Calvin, Edwards Sproul, Frame, and many others have tried to show the Church over the years.

Here is a summary:

1. election, 2) predestination, 3) gospel call 4) inward call 5) regeneration, 6) conversion (faith & repentance), 7) justification, 8) sanctification, and 9) glorification. (Rom 8:29-30)

However the topic is John 3:16 which is an inspiring verse that reminds us of the central point of the bible.

[16] For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.

 

[MDK]

You have a full misunderstanding of my beliefs pertaining to the Ordo Salutis. Which if discussed would be a bit off topic as it consists of a complete soterology. It has been proven easy for people to get stuck somewhere in the middle of this and miss the point that Paul, Augustine, Aquinas, Luther, Calvin, Edwards Sproul, Frame, and many others have tried to show the Church over the years.

Here is a summary:

1. election, 2) predestination, 3) gospel call 4) inward call 5) regeneration, 6) conversion (faith & repentance), 7) justification, 8) sanctification, and 9) glorification. (Rom 8:29-30)

However the topic is John 3:16 which is an inspiring verse that reminds us of the central point of the bible.

[16] For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.

I have a proper understanding of what you’ve said, and have responded appropriately. Your efforts to expand on your beliefs still show error.

It has been shown that those who preach a gospel other than the one Christ gave us, have created their own gospel. So, it is that anyone including even Satan can quote the Bible… and what good has one really done simply by this? The real key is to know what it means as Christ intended. Ignorance of the meaning of Scriptures is ignorance of Christ. Possibly worse yet would to be to distort His Word. Did Christ ever give permission to distort His Good News? Let’s please not lump people like Luther, Calvin, Edwards Sproul, Frame into that conversation… as they are all ones who unfortunately teach heresy, as they do not teach the full Gospel correctly. They have allowed their fallible fleshly understanding to interfere with what the Holy Spirit has taught. When one teaches heresy (as they have), they damage the Body of Christ.

 

[DD2007]

I have a proper understanding of what you’ve said, and have responded appropriately. Your efforts to expand on your beliefs still show error.

It has been shown that those who preach a gospel other than the one Christ gave us, have created their own gospel. So, it is that anyone including even Satan can quote the Bible… and what good has one really done simply by this? The real key is to know what it means as Christ intended. Ignorance of the meaning of Scriptures is ignorance of Christ. Possibly worse yet would to be to distort His Word. Did Christ ever give permission to distort His Good News? Let’s please not lump people like Luther, Calvin, Edwards Sproul, Frame into that conversation… as they are all ones who unfortunately teach heresy, as they do not teach the full Gospel correctly. They have allowed their fallible fleshly understanding to interfere with what the Holy Spirit has taught. When one teaches heresy (as they have), they damage the Body of Christ.

I’m not trying to expound my beliefs. I just posted John 3:16 to cheer people up. You are the one trying to convert me. I simply answered your questions and responded to the things you required me to respond to.

There is nothing distorted about John 3:16. You are the only one trying to teach anything on this thread. I’m not from your denomination but I think we can all agree that this is an inspiring verse.

Here it is again:

[16] For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.

 

[DD2007]

Here is a cool article in regards to John 3:16:

worldnetdaily.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=85729

Note: I am a huge Sooner football fan. But, at least this is a good consolation. Congratulations Gator fans, and thanks Tim Tebow.

 

[MDK]

I’m not trying to expound my beliefs. I just posted John 3:16 to cheer people up. You are the one trying to convert me. I simply answered your questions and responded to the things you required me to respond to.

There is nothing distorted about John 3:16. You are the only one trying to teach anything on this thread. I’m not from your denomination but I think we can all agree that this is an inspiring verse.

Here it is again:

[16] For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.

Thanks for the passage again. It is most beautiful when one knows what it truly means, and is not distorted by fallible flesh. Now, do you know what it means yet? No, I’m not trying to convert you. I am simply telling you the truth. That you seem to feel threatened by the truth is a different matter.

You have indeed and unfortunately brought forward incorrect teaching regarding the meaning of John 3:16, by your false teaching of the phrase “believes in Him”.

Not that you really seem interested… However, I am not a member of any denomination as is the word is used today, because the Catholic Church was the original Church built by Christ. The passage John 3:16 was written by a member of the Catholic Church who was inspired by the Holy Spirit. The inspired Scriptures including John were assembled into the Bible by the Catholic Church. The Catholic Church teaches the correct meaning.

To say that the meaning of John 3:16 is not relevant, is to say that we meditate on what… nothing? It’s really only the meaning that we care to meditate about, otherwise it’s just a bunch of characters on a page. We Catholics know that the meaning is vitally important. I am simply trying to keep false meaning from being promoted, and the beautiful true meaning known. Anyone truly seeking Christ who is the Truth, would certainly not desire to meditate on false meanings, as distortions denigrate the view of Christ. If we meditate on false meanings, do we really meditate on Christ? No, we who love Christ desire the truth about Christ. This is more beautiful than any distorted man made meaning.

So, if you really want beauty, you will seek the full meaning of the Gospel without distortions.

 

[MDK]

Here is a cool article in regards to John 3:16:

worldnetdaily.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=85729

Note: I am a huge Sooner football fan. But, at least this is a good consolation. Congratulations Gator fans, and thanks Tim Tebow.

Yes, I was aware of this. However, the less one really knows what it means, the less beauty they actually behold. Distortions take away from the true beauty of this passage. I appreciate Tebow for doing this as well. Now, it’s up to all to seek the truth, and the real beauty will shine forth.

 

[DD2007]

Yes, I was aware of this. However, the less one really knows what it means, the less beauty they actually behold. Distortions take away from the true beauty of this passage. I appreciate Tebow for doing this as well. Now, it’s up to all to seek the truth, and the real beauty will shine forth.

You mean only if the reader concludes that they should become Catholic. We disagree on ecclesiology.

Anyway, what I was hoping for was for you or anyone to post why John 3:16 has impacted your life or edifyed you in some way…etc

Is it possible to fellowship with Catholics about The Lord and scriptures without them trying to make you join their Church?

 

[DD2007]

So, anyone has John 3:16 meant anything to you in you life? Has it brought you comfort at any time? Does it remind you that God is loving?

[16] For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.

 

[MDK]

You mean only if the reader concludes that they should become Catholic. We disagree on ecclesiology.

Anyway, what I was hoping for was for you or anyone to post why John 3:16 has impacted your life or edifyed you in some way…etc

Is it possible to fellowship with Catholics about The Lord and scriptures without them trying to make you join their Church?

No, I mean that they should learn and live the full Gospel as Christ taught, without distorted teachings of fallible flesh getting in the way.

Is this what you were hoping for? Why didn’t you say so, when asked in the beginning, instead of posting things like “I like John 3:16. This is the scripture forum, so it fits in well” or “I don’t see why this verse needs explaination. It’s quite well written. It’s a great verse to just meditate on.” See, this is why people were asking your intentions… as they knew there was some motivation, some need(s). Honesty is better, and is straight forward.

Whether you join or not is up to you. We simply seek the truth… that may be why it’s hard for you to “fellowship” with those who seek meaning and truth of Christ without distortion.