John 3:16

[ryanoneil]

James 2:24
You see that a person is justified by what he does and not by faith alone.

These “works” are done in a in a system of grace. We approach God with faith, as a Father who loves us, not as an employer who owes us.

Ephesians 2:8-9

[8] For by grace you have been saved through faith; and this is not your own doing, it is the gift of God –
[9] not because of works, lest any man should boast.

These “works” are done in a system of law, when we try to obligate God like an employer.

For we are his handiwork, created in Christ Jesus for the good works that God has prepared in advance, that we should live in them. (Eph 2:10)

These “works” are done in a in a system of grace. We approach God with faith, as a Father who loves us, not as an employer who owes us.

We will be judged. Everyone will be jusged by the things they have done. However salvation is only by the grace of God. A human has no power to be holy on his own.

I agree with you!

Works are a product of faith which is a product of grace.

I wonder if there is a better way to say this? Because works don’t automatically flow from faith.

James tells us that faith is faith (a mental process) and works are works (an action). They are two separate entities that must be coupled together.

 

[DD2007]

I wonder if there is a better way to say this? Because works don’t automatically flow from faith.

James tells us that faith is faith (a mental process) and works are works (an action). They are two separate entities that must be coupled together.

You’re right. I am not very articulate in a lot of ways. I am a native Okie so I speak Texoman as my native tongue

Here is a quote from Dr. Sproul on this topic. He’s a lot smarter than me.

“If a person says he has faith, but he gives no outward evidence of that faith through righteous works, his faith will not justify him. Martin Luther, John Calvin, or John Knox would absolutely agree with James. We are not saved by a profession of faith or by a claim to faith. That faith has to be genuine before the merit of Christ will be imputed to anybody. You can’t just say you have faith. True faith will absolutely and necessarily yield the fruits of obedience and the works of righteousness. Luther was saying that those works don’t add to that person’s justification at the judgment seat of God. But they do justify his claim to faith before the eyes of man. James is saying, not that a man is justified before God by his works, but that his claim to faith is shown to be genuine as he demonstrates the evidence of that claim of faith through his works.” Dr. Sproul

The way I see it:

In John 3:16 it says whoever believes in him. Basically when we follow that to conclusion we will see that if a person believes in him for real their lives will be about obeying him.

 

[Randy_Carson]

Ephesians 2:8-9

[8] For by grace you have been saved through faith; and this is not your own doing, it is the gift of God –
[9] not because of works, lest any man should boast.

Works are a product of faith which is a product of grace. We will be judged. Everyone will be jusged by the things they have done. However salvation is only by the grace of God. A human has no power to be holy on his own.

Agreed. What is so amazing to me is that people still cling to the false idea that they are justified by faith alone.

Isn’t it curious that the Apostle Paul used the word “faith” and related terms more than 200 times in the New Testament, yet he never once used the phrase “faith alone”?

This seems strange considering how concerned Paul was with passing on the faith accurately and the means to justification would be among the most important truths he would preach. In fact, throughout all of his works, he goes to great lengths to choose his words with precision, so it seems odd that “faith alone” does not appear once in all of his writings.

This is even more surprising given the fact that Paul also used the words “alone” and “only” more than any other New Testament author. Clearly, Paul was well-accustomed to using these powerful qualifiers.

Could it be that the Holy Spirit prevented Paul from ever writing “faith alone” to describe the process of justification? And that same check prevented any of the gospel writers from ascribing “faith alone” to Jesus, either.

In fact, the only time that the Holy Spirit allowed any author to use that infamous phrase is when He inspired James to write, “You see that a person is justified by what he does and not by faith alone.” (James 2:24)

Therefore, for those who propose that Paul taught justification by faith alone, a very haunting question remains: Why didn’t Paul use the specific phrase “faith alone” anywhere in his New Testament writings?

Here’s another verse that comes up frequently…the one that teaches that the Bible Alone is the sole rule of faith for the believer…it’s found in…hang on, I’ll find it…hmmm…strange…it isn’t in the Bible, after all.

 

[Nicholas_II]

nice post Randy!

 

[Nicholas_II]

You’re right. I am not very articulate in a lot of ways. I am a native Okie so I speak Texoman as my native tongue

Here is a quote from Dr. Sproul on this topic. He’s a lot smarter than me.

“If a person says he has faith, but he gives no outward evidence of that faith through righteous works, his faith will not justify him. Martin Luther, John Calvin, or John Knox would absolutely agree with James. We are not saved by a profession of faith or by a claim to faith. That faith has to be genuine before the merit of Christ will be imputed to anybody. You can’t just say you have faith. True faith will absolutely and necessarily yield the fruits of obedience and the works of righteousness. Luther was saying that those works don’t add to that person’s justification at the judgment seat of God. But they do justify his claim to faith before the eyes of man. James is saying, not that a man is justified before God by his works, but that his claim to faith is shown to be genuine as he demonstrates the evidence of that claim of faith through his works.” Dr. Sproul

The way I see it:

In John 3:16 it says whoever believes in him. Basically when we follow that to conclusion we will see that if a person believes in him for real their lives will be about obeying him.

Can you give me 1 good reason why I should let Sproul teach me what the bible is saying? Who is this guy? The Bible is the most important book in the world. If you can give me 1 good reason to listen to your protestant ministers then fine. I will. But Ive thought about this a long time and I reckon you cant. they have no mission, no authority, no remit. unless you want to tell me different??

 

[Lux_Caelum]

Can you give me 1 good reason why I should let Sproul teach me what the bible is saying? Who is this guy? The Bible is the most important book in the world. If you can give me 1 good reason to listen to your protestant ministers then fine. I will. But Ive thought about this a long time and I reckon you cant. they have no mission, no authority, no remit. unless you want to tell me different??

That’s powerful and so true. It’s exactly how I feel. Why should I give any credibility to the thousands of different interpreters of the holy bible? If you look at the hundreds and hundreds of protestant denominations there is at least one thing (usually mutlitple) that differentiate them from each other. Many times these differences are huge in relation to how they interpret doctrine. I believe every Baptist parish is completely autonomous, meaning scripture interpretation is left to the local pastor (correct me on this if I am wrong).

The point being, on who’s authority should I believe one interpretation over another? There is no credible answer to this question and that just reinforces my faith and obedience to the Chruch.

 

[DD2007]

That’s powerful and so true. It’s exactly how I feel. Why should I give any credibility to the thousands of different interpreters of the holy bible? If you look at the hundreds and hundreds of protestant denominations there is at least one thing (usually mutlitple) that differentiate them from each other. Many times these differences are huge in relation to how they interpret doctrine. I believe every Baptist parish is completely autonomous, meaning scripture interpretation is left to the local pastor (correct me on this if I am wrong).

The point being, on who’s authority should I believe one interpretation over another? There is no credible answer to this question and that just reinforces my faith and obedience to the Chruch.

I’m not telling anyone to get their biblical truths from the interpretation of Dr. Sproul. Since he and I share a conviction on this issue and my words are usually insufficient for orderly communication I chose to use his words since he has written about that and I agree with his position. That’s all.

Guys, please take no offense, but I simply do not believe that a man can save himself by works he does that somehow earns him favor with God. There is really no reason to argue that with me. This isn’t even a thread about our differences in the order of salvation. Which there aren’t near as many as one would think by the way. This is a thread about John 3:16 and how that verse glorifies God not our respective denominations.

God is greatly glorified in John 3:16

 

[DD2007]

That was a beautiful video. Thank you.

You’re Welcome.

Here is another good clip that reminds me of John 3:16:

youtube.com/watch?v=Ew3yXqdMF1o

 

[MDK]

Right. I should have said pre-ascention/ pre-pentacost instead of that. The atonement is complete at this time. I used the wrong word. I apologize.

He simply gave them the authority to pronounce the forgiveness of God at that time. He gave them the Holy Spirit first. The Holy Spirit decended on the Church at Pentacost when the Church was actually founded. In no way does this imply that any powers was passed to any others by them.

But once again you are trying to take a simple thread and drive it off topic.

The topic is John 3:16.

I wish you would stay on it.

Once again, you don’t understand (not eve close).

I am trying to give this meaning, and keep God’s Holy Word from being drained partially or fully of its meaning.

 

[MDK]

MDK,

Once again. It seems you have nothing but ill will for non-Roman Catholic Christians. Please stay on the topic of John 3:16. I do not understand why a simple posting of an inspiring verse like John 3:16 compells you to feel the need to attempt to destroy the faith of others.

We are all Christians. John 3:16 glorifies God.

[16] For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.

You accuse falsely once again. Please see God’s eighth commandment against this business of falsely accusing.

I’ve already corrected you on this. I oppose false faith systems that lead people astray. This is specifically that those people may know the truth, and others may not be corrupted by the false interpretations of God’s Word, such as you have provided and provide for context. Really, do you honestly expect to bring false context to a Catholic forum and not be corrected as we are right to do?

Not that you’ll understand, but for others… it is to protect that which is sacred. Those who make their own gospel will make God’s word devoid of its meaning in sharing with others. It is up to those who both love God and know His truth, to protect what He established.

 

[MDK]

Right. I should have said pre-ascention/ pre-pentacost instead of that. The atonement is complete at this time. I used the wrong word. I apologize.

He simply gave them the authority to pronounce the forgiveness of God at that time. He gave them the Holy Spirit first. The Holy Spirit decended on the Church at Pentacost when the Church was actually founded. In no way does this imply that any powers was passed to any others by them.

But once again you are trying to take a simple thread and drive it off topic.

The topic is John 3:16.

I wish you would stay on it.

Do you really want to ask that I stop bringing up the truth? It really seems to interfere with what you desire to place God’s Holy Word in a false context, and drain His Gospel of meaning. We bring up that there is very important meaning, and you have some great problem with this. Why is that? Don’t bother to respond, I think we already all know…

 

[MDK]

MDK,

You seem like you want to do nothing but insult me and other Christians who do not call themselves Roman Catholics.

I wish you wouldn’t.

Thanks,

David

You wish I wouldn’t tell the truth.

What about that Eighth Commandment? You continue to cross the line there, but not surprising as you also bring false context to God’s Gospel as well. The full context of God’s Gospel means that belief is faith, 100% commitment, and obedience.

If you really want to join in Christian unity, please go with the teaching that Christ gave us, as has been taught also by the Church Fathers, and passed down faithfully in Apostolic Succession in His One Catholic Church with the chief Bishop in Rome…

I ask that you please not pretend that we don’t understand. Yet, we ask that you please maintain what Christ taught, and not drain it of meaning. When you attempt to mislead, we will correct you, because we love all Christians, desire that they know Christ, and desire that others who are learning will not be misled into false faith systems as Protestantism has given to the world. As a result of false faith system, many do not really know about Christ the truth that they as Christians ought to.

 

[MDK]

John 3:16

[16] For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.

Thankfully, God did!

If one wrote this phrase to make it more readable for today and expressed it’s meaning so that those who read could understand more easily, it would read something like:

For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever has faith in, is committed to, and obeys Him should not perish but have eternal life.

This is more usable understanding off the shelf for the faithful. Does anyone else have a better way to convey the meaning of John 3:16, so that when we apply it to our lives, it actually works like God intended? We could write a book or two or three about it, but what is the meaning distilled down into simple sentence or two so that the faithful can apply it to their lives and understand better what Scriptures really teach.

 

[MDK]

Guys, please take no offense, but I simply do not believe that a man can save himself by works he does that somehow earns him favor with God. There is really no reason to argue that with me. This isn’t even a thread about our differences in the order of salvation. Which there aren’t near as many as one would think by the way. This is a thread about John 3:16 and how that verse glorifies God not our respective denominations.

God is greatly glorified in John 3:16

God is not glorified by those teaching falsehoods about His Word.

Please tell us where you get this stuff about a man saving himself by working to earn salvation. Where has anyone here said that? More importantly, where does any church teach that?

You continue to display a great deal of stubbornness in listening to others both who tell you that they do not believe in working for salvation, then in not adopting God’s Word as it is taught. It’s not about denominations, as Christ didn’t make a denomination, but one Church which is not a denomination. It’s about the truth. However, the Catholic Church and the truth are inseparable. Other faith systems have some truth and some falsehood. Why do you insist on falsehood when discussing something as important as God’s Word?

Why do you complain to us, when you have come here with prejudicial misinformation so as to falsely accuse others’ faith?

 

[MDK]

Right. I should have said pre-ascention/ pre-pentacost instead of that. The atonement is complete at this time. I used the wrong word. I apologize.

He simply gave them the authority to pronounce the forgiveness of God at that time. He gave them the Holy Spirit first. The Holy Spirit decended on the Church at Pentacost when the Church was actually founded. In no way does this imply that any powers was passed to any others by them.

But once again you are trying to take a simple thread and drive it off topic.

If you understood the full Gospel, you would know that there is Apostolic Succession. We know that the entire Gospel is not conveyed in one particular phrase, but in all of it together. One who is weak will make straw men arguments to attack, because they don’t make any headway against the truth they dislike.

This is the reason we correct, is so that the true meaning of John 3:16 and the rest of Scriptures is preserved from those who present His word in any false light.

 

[MDK]

Can you give me 1 good reason why I should let Sproul teach me what the bible is saying? Who is this guy? The Bible is the most important book in the world. If you can give me 1 good reason to listen to your protestant ministers then fine. I will. But Ive thought about this a long time and I reckon you cant. they have no mission, no authority, no remit. unless you want to tell me different??

You are correct. We should not. Sproul is not a qualified theologian or scholar.

Those who subscribe to false teachings will probably never really know the truth, but will arrogantly sling stones at the truth because they don’t understand. Only when one knows truth, can one identify falsehoods, such as Sproul teaches.

 

[MDK]

It was in 2005.

Does breaking God’s eighth Commandment qualify one for need of forgiveness by God?

 

[MDK]

There is a lot of bickering going on here. Let us not forget the 2nd greatest commandment to love our neighbor. I will love my Presbyterian neighbors as much as my Catholic brethren. We don’t have to agree with each other to be respectful.

Mark 12:28-31

And one of the scribes came up and heard them disputing with one another, and seeing that he answered them well, asked him, “Which commandment is the first of all?” Jesus answered, “The first is, ‘Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one; and you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind, and with all your strength.’ The second is this, ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ There is no other commandment greater than these.”

Those verse are nice to reflect on!

There are important distinctions between bickering, quarreling, and argument or debate.

A wise man once said “Never let quarreling get in the way of a good argument.” One could substitute bickering for quarreling.

Here is an axiom… it is better to provide truth than falsehood. Another would be it is more charitable to provide truth of Christ than falsehood about Christ. From there, I would argue that one who is providing truth about Christ is doing the better thing and it is more charitable. Loving one’s neighbor includes sharing the truth of Christ, and defending it where needed. This includes not only to the one the comment is directed, but to all who read.

 

[DD2007]

This is another good clip:

youtube.com/watch?v=6iK0Miq2xNo

Holy Holy Holy

This is my favorite hymn.

My favorite verse is as one may have guessed, John 3:16

 

[Michael_Francis]

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