John 3:18

[tru_dvotion]

1. Also what does this mean about many other people and religions who do not believe in Jesus even after hearing about Him? Jesus’ statement would seem to indicate that they are condemned, but I don’t think the Church teaches that. How are we to understand this?

****I am aware what the Church is teaching Greg. But that would have to be understood in the context it is intended. Otherwise why would there be a reference in the Bible or a point in fact, to the prediction that the end will not come until the Gospel has been taken to all the peoples on the Earth. What would be the point if all that was required of us is a moral life style? I do not believe (again, no pun) that those who already know about Christ and his message (as I have some very worthy but self proclaimed atheist friends) would fall into this category at all. No, it would not include the Dalai Lama either, no matter how clean he lives or how enlightened he becomes. He is a self proclaimed atheist. He is also very well educated and he knows more about Christianity than perhaps you and me. Yet he rejects it. These people are all aware, including my friends, yet they fully reject the Gospel. No matter how decent they are in this life, they will most assuredly burn in hell, unless they reverse their unbelief before they die. ************

**** This articles may ignite more thought and more discussion, but they deal with the same topic: ****

Is There Salvation Outside of the Church
trosch.org/for/salvation.html

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[ahimsaman72]

Greg_McPherran:

Well, we do accept predestination, but not predestination to hell. If you look carefully at Jesus’ words, He doesn’t say that people who don’t believe at some point in their lives are condemned. He seems to indicate that if you die not believing then you were not predestined to Heaven. Predestination to hell would mean we have no free will, and I think that is one reason why the Church does not accept Calvinism, because that goes a bit too far by saying we have no free will.

Granted, free will and predestination are mysterious.

Greg

I don’t believe in “double predestination” which teaches both heaven’s citizens and hell’s citizens are predestined. I didn’t know you accepted predestination at all

 

[fiervolino]

Greg,

Why wouldn’t you believe that? If no one comes to the Father but through Christ, then that would indicate those who don’t will not be saved. I mean this sincerely, if we can be saved if we reject Christ then why be a Christian? It becomes meaningless.

I think it could not be more clear. If you don’t believe in Christ you are condemned. I cannot fathom that the Catholic Church does not teach this. If I am wrong and she does then my journey stops here and now since scripture over and over again makes clear that rejecting Christ is damnable.

Mel

 

[fiervolino]

Mel
You are RIGHT ON! John 3:18 makes it pretty simple. What I find puzzling is why the homilies don’t stress this. Perhaps they think it too upsetting to their members. But it needs to be emphasized. We will encounter Christ face-to-face after death in an individual Judgment (#1). The time of “probation” is over, there are no more chances or come backs. Let’s read Hebrews 9:27-28, Rom 2:6-11. Jesus came the first time to forgive, NOT to judge (condemn). Jesus will come the second time to judge, NOT to forgive. The Catechism of the Catholic Church says in 679. Christ is Lord of eternal life. Full right to pass definitive judgement on the works and hearts of men belongs to him as redeemer of the world. He “acquired” this right by his cross. The Father has given “all judgement to the Son”. Yet the Son did not come to judge, but to save and to give the life he has in himself. By rejecting grace in this life, one already judges oneself, receives according to one’s works, and can even condemn oneself for all eternity by rejecting the Spirit of love. 682 When he comes at the end of time to judge the living and the dead, the glorious Christ will reveal the secret disposition of hearts and will render to each man according to his works, and according to his acceptance or refusal of grace, John 3:17-18 supports this.

Fred

 

[Genesis315]

The Catholic Church does not teach against that verse. Here’s what the Catechism says:

CCC:

The necessity of faith

161 Believing in Jesus Christ and in the One who sent him for our salvation is necessary for obtaining that salvation.42 "Since “without faith it is impossible to please [God]” and to attain to the fellowship of his sons, therefore without faith no one has ever attained justification, nor will anyone obtain eternal life ‘But he who endures to the end.’"43

What we do acknowledge is that for those who do not yet know Jesus through no fault of their own, God can lead them h in ways known to Himself to that fait, without which it is impossible to please him (see CCC 848, Vatican II Ad Gentes 7, etc.).

Pope Bl. John Paul II made this point in the following allocution, after affirming the possibility of salvation for the invincibly ignorant:
Pope Bl. John Paul II:

What I have said above, however, does not justify the relativistic position of those who maintain that a way of salvation can be found in any religion, even independently of faith in Christ the Redeemer, and that interreligious dialogue must be based on this ambiguous idea. That solution to the problem of the salvation of those who do not profess the Christian creed is not in conformity with the Gospel. Rather, we must maintain that the way of salvation always passes through Christ, and therefore the Church and her missionaries have the task of making him known and loved in every time, place and culture. Apart from Christ “there is no salvation.” As Peter proclaimed before the Sanhedrin at the very start of the apostolic preaching: “There is no other name in the whole world given to men by which we are to be saved” (Acts 4:12).

For those too who through no fault of their own do not know Christ and are not recognized as Christians, the divine plan has provided a way of salvation. As we read in the Council’s Decree Ad Gentes, we believe that “God in ways known to himself can lead those inculpably ignorant of the Gospel” to the faith necessary for salvation (AG 7).

vatican.va/holy_father/john_paul_ii/audiences/alpha/data/aud19950531en.html