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jlhargus
Guest
marking for latter post
- Status
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WALTHER
Guest
BibleAnswer,
You write:
Sincerely,
WALTHER
You write:
Are you here refering to the collective knowledge of the fathers of the ancient church and claiming that your individual knowledge has surpassed theirs?
Sincerely,
WALTHER
J
jlhargus
Guest
JL: What must we do to be saved by Christ? How do we receive remission of sins by Christ? How do we receive the gift of the Holy Ghost? [Acts 2:38 …Peter said …REPENT and BE BAPTIZED…in the name of Jesus Christ FOR the REMISSION OF SINS and…RECEIVE THE GIFT OF THE HOLY GHOST.]
[1Jn 1:12 But to ALL WHO RECEIVED HIM who BELIEVED in his name HE GAVE POWER TO BECOME CHILDREN OF GOD 13 who were BORN not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man but OF GOD] Faith is receiving and believing, which gives us the power to become children of God thru baptism.
**How do we become children of God? How do we put on Christ? **
[Gal 3:26 For YE ARE all the CHILDREN OF GOD BY FAITH in Christ Jesus. 27 For AS MANY of you AS HAVE BEEN BAPTIZED into Christ HAVE PUT ON CHRIST.] We are children by faith, as many as HAVE BEEN BAPTIZED have PUT ON CHRIST. It isn’t faith alone that makes us children, faith is our conception, baptism is our spiritual birth as a child of God. The word of God is the seed by which we are conceived, the sacrament of baptism is being born again when we are delivered a new babe in Christ, born again by water and the Spirit, as Christ clearly said in Jn3:5 EXCEPT a man be BORN OF WATER AND OF THE SPIRIT, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
[Titus 3:5 NOT BY WORKS of righteousness…we have done BUT BY **HIS MERCY he saved us BY the WASHING of REGENERATION and RENEWING OF THE HOLY GHOST]
1Cor6:11 And such were some of you. But YOU WERE WASHED you were SANCTIFIED, you were JUSTIFIED in the NAME of the Lord JESUS Christ AND in the SPIRIT OF OUR GOD.
How are our sins washed away? [Acts 22:16 And now why tarriest thou? Arise, and BE BAPTIZED, and WASH AWAY THY SINS, calling on the name of the Lord.]
[Rv 1:5 …Jesus Christ…the faithful witness…first begotten of the dead…prince of kings…him that loved us and WASHED US FROM OUR SINS IN HIS own BLOOD 6 …made us kings and priests unto God…]
**How do we die with Christ? ** How are we raised from the dead to new life with Christ? **How are we united to Christ? How is our old sinful self crucified with Christ, that we no longer be slaves to sin? **
[Rms 6:3 Or don’t you know that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were BAPTIZED INTO HIS DEATH? 4 We were therefore BURIED WITH HIM THROUGH BAPTISM INTO DEATH in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, WE too may LIVE A NEW LIFE. 5 If we have been UNITED WITH HIM like this in his death, we will certainly also be UNITED WITH HIM in his resurrection. 6 For we know that OUR OLD SELF WAS CRUCIFIED with him so that the body of sin might be done away with, that we should NO LONGER be SLAVES TO SIN.]
**How are we complete in Christ? How are we circumcised without hands putting off the body of the sins of the flesh? What is the circumcision of Christ? How are we buried with him? How are we risen with him? **
[Col2:10 And YE ARE COMPLETE IN HIM, which is the head of all principality and power: 11 IN WHOM also YE ARE CIRCUMCISED with the CIRCUMCISION MADE WITHOUT HANDS, in PUTTING OFF THE BODY OF THE SINS OF THE FLESH by the CIRCUMCISION OF CHRIST 12 BURIED WITH HIM IN BAPTISM, wherein also ye are RISEN WITH HIM THROUGH the Faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead. 13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having FORGIVEN YOU ALL TRESPASSES.]
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WALTHER
Guest
BibleAnswer,
Secondly, no church is corrupted by Satan that preaches Christ crucified and adminsters the Sacraments properly.
Thirdly, you are obviously a follower of the heretic Harold Camping; that preacher of false, vain, and damnable enthusiast twaddle.
It seems that you have merely exchanged one pope for another, BibleAnswer.
Sincerely,
WALTHER
Firstly, Baptism is the work of God, not man.
Secondly, no church is corrupted by Satan that preaches Christ crucified and adminsters the Sacraments properly.
Thirdly, you are obviously a follower of the heretic Harold Camping; that preacher of false, vain, and damnable enthusiast twaddle.
It seems that you have merely exchanged one pope for another, BibleAnswer.
Sincerely,
WALTHER
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BibleAnswer
Guest
The only way i can manage to stay humble and charitable, is if we do this logistically. You ask a serious question you want to hear my opinion on, Ill tell you, supported by scripture then explain what it means using bible language. Then you can counter, rebuke, or side with me based on your understanding and study. We are all friends here, my desire is not to judge you people, or to battle it out, but to inform and teach, you can call me heretic all you like, or we can go bit by bit and work something out to our satisfaction.
So go ahead start it up. lets all be civil and never forget. every single one of us ministers to the LORD, regardless, faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God.
ok, back to work, adios for now.
I
Ignatius
Guest
If you read the context of this verse it will become perfectly clear. In the verses previous to this, Jesus is baptised; in the verses following, He sends the desciples out “bapizing them in the named of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit”. I was aware of this while I was Protestant, long before I discovered the Truth of the Catholic Church.
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jlhargus
Guest
JL: [1Pt3:20 who disobeyed long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built. In it only a few people, EIGHT in all, WERE SAVED THROUGH WATER, 21 and THIS WATER SYMBOLIZES BAPTISM THAT NOW SAVES YOU also—NOT THE REMOVAL OF DIRT from the body BUT the PLEDGE OF A GOOD CONSCIENCE toward God. IT SAVES you BY THE RESURRECTION of Jesus Christ,
**How does baptism now save us? [1Pt3:21 and this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you also—not the removal of dirt from the body but THE PLEDGE OF A GOOD CONSCIENCE toward God. It saves you BY THE RESURRECTION of Jesus Christ,]
**How do we have our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience? ** [Hb10:22 Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our HEARTS SPRINKLED FROM AN EVIL CONSCIENCE, and our bodies WAHSED WITH PURE WATER.] Our hearts are sprinkled, washed in water baptism by the pure water=the Holy Spirit.
**How is our conscience purged? ** Hb9:14 How much more shall the BLOOD OF CHRIST, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, PURGE YOUR CONSCIENCE from dead works to serve the living God?]
**How does Christ wash us, from our sins, in his blood? How does Christ make us kings and priests unto God? ** [Rv 1:5 …Jesus Christ…the faithful witness…first begotten of the dead…prince of kings…him that loved us and WASHED US FROM OUR SINS IN HIS own BLOOD 6 …made us kings and priests unto God…]
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nsper7
Guest
We side against you because you side against history and against the True Church. Now, you can disagree, but that is where we are coming from here. You can quote Scripture all you want, but my response remains:
- Where do you get the authority to interpret Scripture? Yes, Jesus gave great authority to the Apostles, but I hate to break it to you: YOU ARE NOT AN APOSTLE! You did not live 2k years ago and learn at the feet of Our Lord. You are ignoring two thousand years of history and Biblical scholarship in favor of your own limited opinions and interpretations.
- You have still not addressed why Protestants all claim the Holy Spirit is guiding them, but there are numerous major disagreements, which means either:
-A) The Holy Spirit (God) promotes division and disunity
-B) A lot of Protestants are lying
-C) A lot of Protestants are foolish and do not seem to realize that just because the thought/interpretation crossed their mind does not mean it is coming from the Holy Spirit
You are so blinded by foolishness or arrogance that you seem to forget that the Catholic Church, the One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church, has stood strong since long before you were born and it will stand strong long after you are dead. Your interpretations will go out with you…assuming you don’t read another Protestant ‘theologian’ and come up with a new interpretation. You have neither history nor logic on your side (history because you ignore 2000 years of the Church and its theologians and logic because you have the pride and foolishness to claim you are more knowledgeable than the Church Fathers, every other Catholic theologian and every other Protestant theologian who would disagree with you).
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jlhargus
Guest
JL: 1Jn2:18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time. 19 THEY WENT OUT FROM US, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us 20 But YE HAVE AN UNCTION FROM THE HOLY ONE, and YE KNOW ALL THINGS. 21 I HAVE NOT WRITTEN unto you BECAUSE YE KNOW NOT THE TRUTH, but because YE KNOW IT, and that no lie is of the truth. 22 … 23… 24 LET THAT therefore ABIDE IN YOU, WHICH YE HAVE HEARD FROM THE BEGINNING. IF THAT WHICH YE HAVE HEARD FROM THE BEGINNING shall REMAIN IN YOU, YE also SHALL CONTINUE IN THE SON, AND in the FATHER. 25 And this is the promise that he hath promised us, EVEN ETERNAL LIFE. 26 These things have I written unto you concerning them that seduce you. 27 But THE ANOINTING which YE HAVE RECEIVED OF HIM ABIDETH IN YOU, and YE NEED NOT that ANY MAN TEACH YOU: but as THE same ANOINTING TEACHETH YOU ALL THINGS, AND IS TRUTH, and is no lie, and even AS IT HATH TAUGHT YOU, YE SHALL ABIDE IN HIM. [Catholics receive this anointing in the sacrament of confirmation].
THE ANOINTING (UNCTION) YE HAVE RECEIVED OF HIM=that is grace and wisdom from the Holy Spirit, the seven gifts. Who gives the wisdom, and LET THAT ABIDE IN US, WHICH WE HAVE HEARD FROM THE BEGINNING. Note not what we have read and formed our own opinion. In other words the gospel as preached by the SENT Apostolic Fellowship, the Church the pillar and ground of truth, 1Tim3:15. That which we have HEARD from the beginning, if we allow it to abide in our hearts and mind we know the truth and will not be deceived, by those teaching another gospel. ANOINTING TEACHETH YOU ALL THINGS. The anointing teaches those of the Household of God to remain faithful to the word (that abideth in them, that which they have RECEIVED FROM THE BEGINNING, as proclaimed in the Church by her lawful ministers who have been SENT. In unity with them we share in the Holy Spirit promised to lead the Church in all truth and have the knowledge necessary not to be deceived and led astray by those who went out from the Church, they are not SENT ministers, but go out on their own authority, teaching another gospel of their own opinion.
What did people do the first time the gospel was preached by Peter? Acts2:41 Then THEY THAT gladly RECEIVED HIS WORD were BAPTIZED: and the same day there WERE ADDED UNTO THEM about three thousand souls. 42 And THEY CONTINUED steadfastly IN the APOSTLES’ DOCTRINE and FELLOWSHIP, and in BREAKING OF BREAD=mass, and in PRAYERS. [Those that received his word were baptized. They were brought into the Church by baptism and CONTINUED steadfastly in the One Holy Catholic Apostolic Fellowship.]
1Cor 1:9 God is faithful you were called into THE FELLOWSHIP OF his Son JESUS CHRIST 10 I appeal to you BREATHREN by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ that all of you AGREE that there be no dissensions among you that you BE UNITED in the same mind and THE SAME JUDGMENT. 1Jn 4:6 We are of God Whoever knows God LISTENS TO US and he who is not of God DOES NOT LISTEN TO US BY THIS WE KNOW the spirit of TRUTH and the spirit of ERROR [Therefore we do not listen to men, who go out on there own authority, the spirit of error, to be taken in by false teachers and every wind of doctrine men can devise through sola scriptura, that tower of babel, confusing the one faith langueage scattering people of faith into myriads of groups, by a tradition of men made a doctrine of God around 1521 AD.] You can have hit and miss truth and your own guesses with split on split. I will stay with the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth, 1 TM 3:14.
[Eph3:7 Whereof I was made A MINISTER, ACCORDING TO THE GIFT of the grace of God given unto me BY the effectual working OF HIS POWER. 8 Unto me, who am less than the least of all saints, is this grace given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ; 9 And TO MAKE ALL MEN SEE what is THE FELLOWHIP of THE MYSTERY, which from the beginning of the world hath been HID IN GOD, who created all things by Jesus Christ: 10 To the intent THAT NOW unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places MIGHT BE KNOWN BY THE CHURCH THE MANIFOLD WISDOM OF GOD,]
[Lk 24:48 you are witnesses of these things 49 I SEND the promise of my Father upon you WAIT in Jerusalem TILL YOU ARE ENDUED WITH POWER FROM ON HIGH.] Jn16:5-12 Christ tells the apostles it is to their advantage that he go away so the Counselor will come to them and he will convince the world of sin. Then in [Jn16:13 Howbeit WHEN he, THE SPIRIT OF TRUTH, IS COME, he will GUIDE YOU INTO ALL TRUTH: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.]
Also we see that same GIFT passed on by the sacrament of Holy Orders, by laying on of hands [2 TIM 1:6 …stir up the GIFT OF GOD IN YOU BY THE PUTTING ON OF MY HANDS 7 GOD HAS GIVEN US the SPIRIT OF POWER. Titus 1:5 For this I left you in Crete that you should set in order …and ORDAIN ELDERS in EVERY CITY AS I APPOINTED YOU. Acts 14:23 when they had ORDAINED elders IN EVERY CHURCH and prayed with fasting they commended them to the Lord on whom they believed. Acts 20:28 Take heed of yourself, and the flock over which the HOLY SPIRIT has MADE you OVERSEERS TO FEED THE CHURCH OF GOD purchased with his own blood, 1 TIM 5:17 Let the elders that RULE well be counted worthy of DOUBLE HONOUR especially they who labour in the WORD AND DOCTRINE. 1 Tin 4:13 Till I come attend to READING to EXHORTATION to DOCTRINE 14 Do not neglect THE GIFT in you GIVEN you by prophecy WITH THE LAYING ON OF the HANDS of the presbytery 16 TAKE HEED to yourself TO THE DOCTRINE continue in them for in doing this you shalt both SAVE yourself and THOSE WHO HEAR YOU.]
Paul even checked his teaching with that one fellowship, to be sure he was not teaching another doctrine or gospel. [Gal2:1 Then fourteen years after I WENT UP AGAIN TO JERUSALEM with Barnabas, and took Titus with me also. 2 And I went up BY REVELATION, and COMMUNICATED UNTO THEM that GOSPEL which I PREACH among the Gentiles, but privately to them which were of reputation, LEST BY ANY MEANS I SHOULD run, or HAD RUN, IN VAIN.]
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jlhargus
Guest
JL: Yes in water baptism were the fruit of the SHED BLOOD of the tree of life THE CROSS is applied to sinners to wash away sins.
[Acts 22:16 And now why tarriest thou? Arise, and BE BAPTIZED, and WASH AWAY THY SINS, calling on the name of the Lord.]
[Rv 1:5 …Jesus Christ…the faithful witness…first begotten of the dead…prince of kings…him that loved us and WASHED US FROM OUR SINS IN HIS own BLOOD 6 …made us kings and priests unto God…]
[Rms 6:3 Or don’t you know that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were BAPTIZED INTO HIS DEATH? 4 We were therefore BURIED WITH HIM THROUGH BAPTISM INTO DEATH in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, WE too may LIVE A NEW LIFE. 5 If we have been UNITED WITH HIM like this in his death, we will certainly also be UNITED WITH HIM in his resurrection. 6 For we know that OUR OLD SELF WAS CRUCIFIED with him so that the body of sin might be done away with, that we should NO LONGER be SLAVES TO SIN.]
[Titus 3:5 NOT BY WORKS of righteousness…we have done BUT BY HIS MERCY he saved us BY the WASHING of REGENERATION and RENEWING OF THE HOLY GHOST]
Eph 2:4 But because of his great love for us, GOD, who is RICH IN MERCY, 5 MADE US ALIVE WITH CHRIST EVEN WHEN WE WERE DEAD IN TRANSGRESSIONS—it is BY GRACE YOU HAVE BEEN SAVED. 6 And GOD RAISED US UP WITH CHRIST and seated us with him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus, 7 in order that in the coming ages he might show the incomparable riches of his grace, expressed in his kindness to us in Christ Jesus. 8 For IT IS BY GRACE YOU HAVE BEEN SAVED, THROUGH FAITH—and this not from yourselves, IT IS THE GIFT OF GOD— 9 not by works, so that no one can boast.
[Col2:10 And YE ARE COMPLETE IN HIM, which is the head of all principality and power: 11 IN WHOM also YE ARE CIRCUMCISED with the CIRCUMCISION MADE WITHOUT HANDS, in PUTTING OFF THE BODY OF THE SINS OF THE FLESH by the CIRCUMCISION OF CHRIST 12 BURIED WITH HIM IN BAPTISM, wherein also ye are RISEN WITH HIM THROUGH the Faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead. 13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having FORGIVEN YOU ALL TRESPASSES.]
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RNRobert
Guest
In the New Testament we see how Jesus gave authority to his Apostles to preach the gospel. We also see how they had authority to:
This to me is an important issue. The Apostles left us their writings, but who is the final arbiter when there is disagreement on what it says? St Paul told the Galatians that is someone (even an angel) taught a different Gospel than the one he taught, to let that person be anathema. Here is my dilemma. I wasn’t there that day in Galatia when St Paul preached the Gospel. So, if Brother Billy Bob comes to my door with a Bible in his hand preaching the “Gospel,” and the next week Parson Brown comes to my door with the same Bible, but preaching a different “Gospel,” and the week after that Reverend Jones comes to my door preaching a yet different version of the “Gospel,” how am I to know which one is the “Gospel?”
Of course, I can read the Bible for myself, but here I am faced with other difficulties. I don’t know the original Bible languages, so I am forced to use a translation I hope is correct. Also, the Bible was written in a time far different from my own, with different customs and speech idioms, which might get lost in translation. Plus Scripture has many different styles- some parts are history, some parts are mystical visions. Scripture is self says it is difficult to understand (2 Peter 3:15), so how can I be sure my perception of Scripture is the right one, 2,000 years after it was written?
- Create and appoint people to positions in the church hierarchy (Acts 6:1-6; Ephesians 4:11-12; 1 Timothy 3:1-13; Titus 1:5)
- Make decisions regarding faith and practice binding all of the faithful (Acts 15:20-30)
- Give commands (not suggestions) regarding morals and doctrine, and discipline erring Christians (Matthew 18:15-18; 1 Corinthians 5:5, 7:17, 11:3-16; 2 Cor 6:7-8; Ephesians 6:1-9; Philippians :2-3; Colossians 2:16, 3:18-23-4; 2 Thess 3:6,10,14; 1 Tim 1:3-4, 2:9-12, 4:11, 5:7-22, Titus 1:13, 3:10-11; Hebrews 10:25; 1 Peter 2:11-18; 2 John 10-11)
This to me is an important issue. The Apostles left us their writings, but who is the final arbiter when there is disagreement on what it says? St Paul told the Galatians that is someone (even an angel) taught a different Gospel than the one he taught, to let that person be anathema. Here is my dilemma. I wasn’t there that day in Galatia when St Paul preached the Gospel. So, if Brother Billy Bob comes to my door with a Bible in his hand preaching the “Gospel,” and the next week Parson Brown comes to my door with the same Bible, but preaching a different “Gospel,” and the week after that Reverend Jones comes to my door preaching a yet different version of the “Gospel,” how am I to know which one is the “Gospel?”
Of course, I can read the Bible for myself, but here I am faced with other difficulties. I don’t know the original Bible languages, so I am forced to use a translation I hope is correct. Also, the Bible was written in a time far different from my own, with different customs and speech idioms, which might get lost in translation. Plus Scripture has many different styles- some parts are history, some parts are mystical visions. Scripture is self says it is difficult to understand (2 Peter 3:15), so how can I be sure my perception of Scripture is the right one, 2,000 years after it was written?
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BibleAnswer
Guest
Hi, good to hear from you,
**Revelation 13 **speaks of a time when Satan, called the beast that comes out of the sea, will rule in the churches through false Gospels. In this chapter these churches are called false prophet that comes out of the earth. These churches have become altogether apostate.
My argument: through scripture, is that ALL CHURCHES have become apostate, yes including every single Protestant church I have ever been too, and the rest of the WORLD!
Every single church, so I by no means single out Catholics, its just that this is the best forum I have ever found, and so this is where I’ll go for now.
**Verse 7 **ominously warns: “And it was given unto him (the beast) to make war with the saints and overcome them”.
Likewise in 2 Thessalonians 2:1-10 God speaks of the ‘man of sin’, who can only be Satan, taking his seat in the temple; that is he will rule in the churches that have become apostate.
In 1 Peter 4:17: “Judgment must begin at the house of God.”
We are all familiar with the prophecy of **Matthew 24:24 **which teaches that ‘false Christs’ and ‘false prophets’ coming with signs and wonders will arise to deceive the very elect.
Notice the same language is used in Revelations 13 as in Matthew 24:24, ‘false prophet’ false false false!!
In spite of their flaws and defects, God has used the churches during the last 1900 years to bring the Gospel to the world. These churches from many different denominations, have been vehicles, the instrument by which the Gospel of salvation has gone into virtually every country of the world. There are many glorious chapters in the history of the churches as they more or less were faithful to the great commission, “Go ye into all the world with the Gospel.”
Now as I seriously questioned what I was being taught after I began to seriously study on my own, I read about HIGH PLACES. And every church is a High place.
Look at the money in the Catholic Church,
Look at all the books and Cd’s they sell by apologists who somehow have more authority than you or i, that they can somehow explain to us the meaning of whatever. Somehow they can shed light and give true, spiritual understanding to all the retards for a fair market value of only $19.99… Hey salvation is cheap this year. Wow really, your going to sell answers concerning matters of salvation. Render unto Ceaser what is Ceaser, and render unto God what is Gods. I don’t think God would charge admission to Heaven, Geez how incredibly owned by MAMMON they all are. When instead, you can study the bible, more diligently and earnestly for FREEEEEE!
look at all the political intrigue, and all the opinions about everything. Tell me, how is politics following faithful to the great commission, “Go ye into all the world with the Gospel.” It isn’t. The LORD has no concern with the matters of this world. “Render unto Ceasar what is Ceasars, and render to God what is Gods.” Ceasar is the world, God is spiritual. Yes an abortion is so incredibly wrong, yet abortions are not the point of the bible, spiritual salvation is the bible. IT is very sad and wrong, and any other forum or group would be adequate to protest, however a church is only concerned with preaching the Gospel. And by preaching the Gospel, the LORD will work HIS WILL, HIS WAY, and if it be HIS WILL to touch the hearts of abortionist, then that is GODS WILL. But that is all a church should do, hand out a bible track, preach the Word, and then have nothing else to say, because we are not judges, the law is the judge, and the law is Gods Word. Each and every person will stand for their sins and be judged by the law, But the church should not judge, or forgive, because forgiveness is a virtue from the LORD, The LORD forgives.
Look at the importance of Moral Law over spiritual salvation. One does not necessarily go hand in hand. The LORD killed the man in Exodus 20 by stoning him, just for picking up a few sticks on the Sabbath. Do you think Morally, it was wrong to pick up sticks, no of course not, he hurt nobody, he killed nobody, he thought no evil thought, he did no evil act. What he did do was disobey Gods Law, and the punishment for breaking the law is death. Do you notice any degree of separation. God does not distinguish between picking up a few sticks, or Cain murdering Abel. They were both sins, and the wages of sin is death. No degree, a sin is a sin.
Look at the incredible wealth of 2000 years of doctrines that have come from the church, and is any of it inspired by God, were any of them prophets, NO, the last prophet was John, he was exiled on the Island of Patmos around 95AD, and he penned Revelation, and the final say on the Bible is Revelation 22:21.
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nsper7
Guest
Jesus also says the gates of Hell will not prevail against His Church. Which Church has existed from the beginning? The Catholic Church. If any groups fulfill the Revelation 13 prophecy, it is the Protestants who broke away from the True Church and have spread and discord ever since. Your opinions, your interpretations, are meaningless without authority, which you do not possess.
You give simplistic answers, ignoring history and ignoring logic. The Catholic Church is the True Church and if you are unwilling to accept that, then there is not much anyone here can do. Your opinions are just your own, or regurgitated from various Protestant ‘theologians’. You say everyone else but you is wrong, that is pride and that is foolishness. All of this is stuff you came up with on your own and you have no authority to interpret Scripture. You give us your opinion and that is all. Opinions are a dime-a-dozen, but there is One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church and you do not have the ability to disprove that.
Why should I listen to your interpretations? I can assure you there is a Catholic interpretation to these prophecies and they have history on their side. YOU HAVE YET TO ANSWER WHY I SHOULD LISTEN TO A STINKING WORD YOU HAVE TO SAY! When you can give me a good reason to listen to your opinions over those of the Church which has existed and thrived for 2000 years despite every evil attempt against it (heresy, Protestantism, Nazism, Communism, secularism, etc.), then maybe I will give a word you see the barest credence.
You can show me why Scripture is authoritative–which Catholics would agree on, but they would also say Tradition, the oral teachings of the Apostles (remember, from a historical standpoint and I majored in History, oral tradition is a valid means of conveying information), is equally authoritative–but you cannot show me why YOUR INTERPRETATION of Scripture is authoritative. Until such time as you can, well, why should I listen to you? And I will state right here that my personal interpretation of Scripture is no more authoritative or trustworthy than yours, but the Church is the pillar and foundation of truth.
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Luke65
Guest
Wow. You take Our Lord’s simple and plain words, “the gates of Hell will not prevail” over His Church, to mean that “ALL CHURCHES have become apostate”; and then you justify this interpretation by appealing to the mystical words of the Book of Revelation?! And you’re going to gamble your eternal life that your absurd interpretation, unknown in the history of the Church, is the Truth? Wow. Let me just give you one little hint: a “beast” in Biblical prophecy is a nation/kingdom/empire. See the Book of Daniel where he tells you this.
Well, you got that right…
“For I, the LORD, love justice; I hate robbery and iniquity. In my faithfulness I will reward them and make an everlasting covenant with them. Their descendants will be known among the nations and their offspring among the peoples. All who see them will acknowledge that they are a people the LORD has blessed.” (Isaiah 61:8-9)
He “can only be Satan”? Right, that’s why St. Paul called him a “man”; and that’s why no one in the history of Christianity that I have ever seen has said that. One thing is sure, the Church Fathers and Doctors were unanimous that this “man of sin” is the Antichrist, who will come and have his reign of terror 3 1/2 years before the end of the world. Also, notice he is called a “son of perdition”, a title also given to Judas - was he Satan too?
Oh yeah, Catholic apologists are raking it in!
“the Lord has commanded that those who preach the gospel should receive their living from the gospel.” (1 Corinthians 9:14)
“Do not judge, or you too will be judged.” (Matthew 7:1)
Well, I share your concern, we should not be too involved in the affairs of the world. But your concern is seriously misplaced if you think that this means that we shouldn’t be at all involved in civil society. We have the responsibility to speak out against unjust laws, and against abuses of civil freedoms - and to be a “light to the world.”
Right, the Lord forgives sins. But He gave the authority to forgive sins in His name to His Church. Perhaps you could give us a list of which scriptures are not in your Bible up front.
You have no idea what you’re talking about - because you’re thinking carnally. Have you heard the Good News? You know, Christ conquered death? God’s justice is perfect - justice that is not achieved in this world will be achieved in the world to come. You can bet your eternal life on that!
“But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all truth.” (John 16:13)
Notice, Our Lord did not say that His Church would instantly know “all truth”, but that the Holy Spirit would “guide” His Church to “all truth”. And this is exactly what we have seen over the last 2000 years, and will continue to see. And as far as true prophets go…
“Do not put out the Spirit’s fire; do not treat prophecies with contempt.” (1 Thessalonians 5:19-20)
If you want to understand the Scriptures, and the prophecies, you need all the means that God has given us. Unfortunately, you’re drinking the bitter water of that fallen star, when you could be drinking the living waters of the Holy Spirit - the Sacraments. Come home and you will see Our Lord as He really is (Luke 24:30-31). God bless.
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BibleAnswer
Guest
<<> you got it all figured out, congratulations your going to Heaven!! I think perhaps you should turn the mirror and look at yourselves. You are all so proud of what the church has accomplished, and of all of its sacred holy knowledge, all in the name of Christ…
I am not ignorant of history, I never said anything about history. This is a forum and you can talk about anything you like, however question directed towards me or ones I answer will be scripture based. **You **can talk about history, and you can get it all squared away, and I will talk about scripture. I am not denying the importance of history and the role it played. I recognize that, I also recognize that Christ already did all of the work so I’ll just study that. The only true history you should concern yourself with, IF your desire is spiritual salvation and to go to heaven, is the history inside the cover of the bible.
**Ps 119:99-104 **I have more understanding than all my teachers, for Your testimonies are my meditation. I understand more than the ancients, because I keep Your precepts. I have restrained my feet from every evil way, that I may keep Your word. I have not departed from Your judgments, for You Yourself have taught me. How sweet are Your words to my taste, sweeter than honey to my mouth! Through Your precepts I get understanding; Therefore I hate every false way.
1Tim 4:6-7 If you instruct the brethren in these things, you will be a good minister of Jesus Christ, nourished in the words of faith and of the good doctrine which you have carefully followed. But reject profane and old wives fables, and exercise yourself rather to godlines
**2Tim 4:2 **Preach the word! Be ready in season and out of season. Convince, rebuke, exhort, with all long suffering and teaching.
**2 Tim 4:3-4 **For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine, but according to their own desires, because they have itching ears, they will heap up for themselves teachers; and they will turn their ears away from the truth, and be turned aside to fables.
I am not ignorant of history, I never said anything about history. This is a forum and you can talk about anything you like, however question directed towards me or ones I answer will be scripture based. **You **can talk about history, and you can get it all squared away, and I will talk about scripture. I am not denying the importance of history and the role it played. I recognize that, I also recognize that Christ already did all of the work so I’ll just study that. The only true history you should concern yourself with, IF your desire is spiritual salvation and to go to heaven, is the history inside the cover of the bible.
**Ps 119:99-104 **I have more understanding than all my teachers, for Your testimonies are my meditation. I understand more than the ancients, because I keep Your precepts. I have restrained my feet from every evil way, that I may keep Your word. I have not departed from Your judgments, for You Yourself have taught me. How sweet are Your words to my taste, sweeter than honey to my mouth! Through Your precepts I get understanding; Therefore I hate every false way.
1Tim 4:6-7 If you instruct the brethren in these things, you will be a good minister of Jesus Christ, nourished in the words of faith and of the good doctrine which you have carefully followed. But reject profane and old wives fables, and exercise yourself rather to godlines
**2Tim 4:2 **Preach the word! Be ready in season and out of season. Convince, rebuke, exhort, with all long suffering and teaching.
**2 Tim 4:3-4 **For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine, but according to their own desires, because they have itching ears, they will heap up for themselves teachers; and they will turn their ears away from the truth, and be turned aside to fables.
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nsper7
Guest
Don’t you see how foolish you are? You refuse to accept the Church that was founded in Scripture.
This seems to fit Protestantism better than Catholicism. After all, Catholicism is the historical Church. It was Luther, Cramner, Calvin and the list goes on who have rejected Catholic doctrine and developed their own doctrine.
Do you not get it that the Catholic Church has been around since the beginning? It is anyone who schisms (Protestantism) that is guilty of rejecting ‘sound doctrine’ and ‘heaping up for themselves teachers’. You are the one who rejects truth and, instead, relies on your own opinions (you have heaped yourself up as a teacher).
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nsper7
Guest
One other thing, if you’re going to quote Scripture, at least be intelligent about it and remember the context. Psalm 119 was written by King David and the 1st and 2nd Timothy were written by St. Paul to Timothy. Could King David honestly say that God Himself taught him? Yes. Can you? Probably not. You have just your own opinions and, possibly, the junk theology of whatever of whatever Protestant writer seems to catch your fancy these days. Neither are you Timothy, trained by the Apostle Paul.
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nsper7
Guest
Also, WHERE IN SCRIPTURE DOES IT ADVOCATE ‘SOLA SCRIPTURA’?
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BibleAnswer
Guest
I didn’t forget the context, God **has **taught me, He gave me His word and told me exactly the same thing as King David and St. Paul. I found it in the Bible. Where do you seek God?
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nsper7
Guest
I seek Him through the Church that He founded at Pentecost, the Church that He promised the gates of Hell would never overcome.
Now, you didn’t answer me where Scripture advocates ‘Sola Scriptura’, a Lutheran invention as far as I can tell.
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