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cfrancis
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The answers given so far more than meet the mark. On a far simpler level, nowhere in the Bible does “Spirit” = “symbolic,” i.e., “spirit” is not used to mean “symbolic.”
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Static
Guest
The answers given so far more than meet the mark. On a far simpler level, nowhere in the Bible does “Spirit” = “symbolic,” i.e., “spirit” is not used to mean “symbolic.”
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Exactly ! This is one of the points I covered on another thread that I mentioned earlier. If we interpret Jn 6 as being symbolic, then we would have to treat Jn 4:24 & Heb 1:14 the same way which would mean that God & angels are just symbols.
May God Bless, Static ( 1 Tim 1:15 )
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Exactly ! This is one of the points I covered on another thread that I mentioned earlier. If we interpret Jn 6 as being symbolic, then we would have to treat Jn 4:24 & Heb 1:14 the same way which would mean that God & angels are just symbols.
May God Bless, Static ( 1 Tim 1:15 )
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NotWorthy
Guest
Also, if you interpret “eat my flesh” symbolically, you have to deal with the Jewish tradition that “eating of the flesh” meant to revile and loathe somebody. So the words would be interpreted by the “symbolic Jew” as, “He who hates and reviles me shall have eternal life”.
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BRB
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Explain this tradition more fully … I don’t catch your drift.
Pork and other unclean animals [certain birds] was forbidden. Cannibalism is not exceptable for any race / creed.
You are talking of something else here. What’s the Chap/verse ?
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NotWorthy
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There is a psalm (I don’t have time to look it up, as I’m heading out as soon as I finish this post) that talks of one’s enemies “gnawing on my bones”. It uses the same graphic terminology that Jesus uses in His last two “Eat my flesh” commands. The literal meaning of the psalmist is that his enemies hate and revile him and uses the “gnawing on my bones” to connote this meaning. This is what the Jews would have had in mind if they took Jesus to be speaking symbolically in John 6.
I hope I’ve given someone with more time enough information and clues to find this Psalm for me and post it, as I won’t be able to look it up til this evening.
God Bless!
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Static
Guest
Also, if you interpret “eat my flesh” symbolically, you have to deal with the Jewish tradition that “eating of the flesh” meant to revile and loathe somebody. So the words would be interpreted by the “symbolic Jew” as, “He who hates and reviles me shall have eternal life”.
Again ! EXactly ! I covered this on the other thread too. I mentioned the verses as well as the meaning. I said it a bit different but the same meaning.
" Amen, Amen I say to you, unless you do violence to me and assault me, you do not have life within you. Whoever persecutes me and kills me I will raise him up on the last day."
That’s the symbolic meaning in a nutshell ( Is 9:18-20, Mi 3:3 &
Rev 17:6,16 ) Makes a whole lot of sense, eh ?
May God Bless, Static ( 1 Tim 1:15 )
Again ! EXactly ! I covered this on the other thread too. I mentioned the verses as well as the meaning. I said it a bit different but the same meaning.
" Amen, Amen I say to you, unless you do violence to me and assault me, you do not have life within you. Whoever persecutes me and kills me I will raise him up on the last day."
That’s the symbolic meaning in a nutshell ( Is 9:18-20, Mi 3:3 &
Rev 17:6,16 ) Makes a whole lot of sense, eh ?
May God Bless, Static ( 1 Tim 1:15 )
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Static
Guest
Also, if you interpret “eat my flesh” symbolically, you have to deal with the Jewish tradition that “eating of the flesh” meant to revile and loathe somebody. So the words would be interpreted by the “symbolic Jew” as, “He who hates and reviles me shall have eternal life”.
Again ! EXactly ! I covered this on the other thread too. I mentioned the verses as well as the meaning. I said it a bit different but the same meaning.
" Amen, Amen I say to you, unless you do violence to me and assault me, you do not have life within you. Whoever persecutes me and kills me I will raise him up on the last day."
That’s the symbolic meaning in a nutshell ( Is 9:18-20, Mi 3:3 &
Rev 17:6,16 ) Makes a whole lot of sense, eh ?
May God Bless, Static ( 1 Tim 1:15 )
Again ! EXactly ! I covered this on the other thread too. I mentioned the verses as well as the meaning. I said it a bit different but the same meaning.
" Amen, Amen I say to you, unless you do violence to me and assault me, you do not have life within you. Whoever persecutes me and kills me I will raise him up on the last day."
That’s the symbolic meaning in a nutshell ( Is 9:18-20, Mi 3:3 &
Rev 17:6,16 ) Makes a whole lot of sense, eh ?
May God Bless, Static ( 1 Tim 1:15 )
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Static
Guest
Ooops !! My bad. Hit the submit too may times, sorry !
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Static
Guest
Cannibalism is not exceptable for any race / creed.
Who is talking cannibalism ?
Cannibalism is eating of your own species unto death or something close to that.
Jesus is not dead, He is very much alive ! I know you know this. I’m not saying it meaning that you don’t, just making the point about the charge of cannibalism. If this is not what you meant by what you said , I apologize.
May God Bless, Static ( 1 Tim 1:15 )
Who is talking cannibalism ?
Cannibalism is eating of your own species unto death or something close to that.
Jesus is not dead, He is very much alive ! I know you know this. I’m not saying it meaning that you don’t, just making the point about the charge of cannibalism. If this is not what you meant by what you said , I apologize.
May God Bless, Static ( 1 Tim 1:15 )
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BRB
Guest
The Jews perceived it this way … and thus found it such a hard teaching to accept ?
Whatelse can you think of that offended them so ?
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Charybdis
Guest
re: cannibalism
The early Christians were accused of being cannibals because they “ate” the flesh and drank the blood of their God.
The early Christians were accused of being cannibals because they “ate” the flesh and drank the blood of their God.
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BRB
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Exactly …
The unbelieving Jews, the believing Jews (disciples), and the unbelieving Roman gentiles … all perceived drinking of blood/eating of flesh as cannibalism.
This is why words of Christ & Christian Eucharist (in case of Romans/gentiles) … were so hard to accept.
Only the believing Christians came to see the Eucharist as a non-bloody sacrifice … and not truly cannibalism.
Even today … Protestants (and many Catholics) prefer to receive Eucharist as only symbolic rememberance … out of misunderstanding &/or fear] of ideas of potential cannibalism.
I wish Christ had further clarified the sacrament … but, then if people would only investigate, they would find the truth for themselves.
Perhaps Christ intended for this sacrament to be the ‘dividing factor’ between those of little faith — and those with trusting faiths.
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ChrisWRIT
Guest
Hi mijoy,
First of all, nowhere else in the Bible is the word “spirit” used to mean “symbolic”, so it is inconsistent at best to think it does in this one instance.
That said, in verse 63 was Jesus talking about His flesh? Perhaps, but I believe that Jesus’ response in verse 63 was made in order to correct the reaction of the listeners – their thought that His words were referring to actually eating His skin, muscles & blood – which rightly would be considered cannibalistic.
But this understanding is not only incorrect, but also implausible from the perspective of anyone considering these words after Jesus ascension.
For one thing, Jesus physical, glorified body is not on earth, but is at the right hand of God, the Father Almighty. For another, how long would it take before Jesus body had been all eaten up, & nothing was left for everyone else who existed after?
Obviously, neither is the case.
In the Eucharist, Jesus body & blood, soul & divinity are really & supernaturally present in the forms of bread & wine. There have been rare, miraculous occurrences of the bread & wine used for the Eucharist being physically changed into flesh &/or blood. (IIRC, the flesh has been shown to be consistent with cardiac (heart) tissue, & the blood type has been found to be AB in each occurrence.)
In comparing scripture to scripture though, in verse 63, it appears that Christ was not claiming to be talking only symbolically, but was pointing out that He was talking about a supernatural, metaphysical reality rather than a natural, physical one.
It is interesting to note how Jesus’ words; “The Spirit gives life, the flesh counts for nothing” is completely consistent with the doctrines of original sin and baptism.
In fact, these same words almost precisely echo Christ’s earlier words to Nicodemus in John 3:6 - “Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit.”
When we are physically born, we are born in the flesh, in a state of original sin. When we are only born in the flesh, we are “dead men walking”, hence, “the flesh counts for nothing.”
However, to have life, to enter the kingdom of God, we must be born again, “born of water & the Spirit.” In baptism, the water washes away our sin, while “the Spirit gives life.”
Hope that helps!
God bless,
Chris
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