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PJD1987
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Mr. Allen describes the Holy Father’s actions as revolutionary. Thoughts?
catholicculture.org/news/headlines/index.cfm?storyid=10481
catholicculture.org/news/headlines/index.cfm?storyid=10481
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Dale_M
Guest
I think Allen is saying that the closure of the abbey is one example of an ongoing “quiet revolution.”
John Allen:
ncronline.org/blogs/all-things-catholic/benedicts-quiet-revolution-and-check-catholic-health-care
Allen gives examples of several “superstar” priests who have been brought to heel during the past couple years, and concludes: “The overall impression is that this is a pope weary of scandal, doing what he can to clean house.”
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PJD1987
Guest
I am skeptical of Mr. Allen and the the NCR personally, as Mr. Allen didn’t even have Cardinal Ratzinger on his papabile list during the conclave as shows a penchant for more liberal clergy and philosophy. I don’t know if this article portrays it well, but I don’t think he’s being complimentary.
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Pax_et_Bonum
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The Pope is ridding the Church of it’d heterodoxy and “filth”.Why else would he order an investigation into nuns in America-some of whom are gnostic,new agers,abortion and homosexuality supporters.Why are we going back to the true translation of the Liturgy of the Word.Why has he demanded that each Bishop allow each priest to say the Latin Mass?Why does he discourage communion in the hand?Why does he encourage traditional Hymns and Chant.Because he sees the harm that the liberalized misinterpretation of V2 has caused.
He is basically putting the liberals,actually the heterodox in their place.He has often said that we need a smaller but more orthodox Church.
He is basically putting the liberals,actually the heterodox in their place.He has often said that we need a smaller but more orthodox Church.
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MarkThompson
Guest
Actually, he has never said that, although it’s a widespread enough misquoting of what he has said.
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valentino
Guest
Don’t we all believe that Pope Benedict has enough problems to deal with?Should this Allen be pointing the finger at the Pope and making an issue out of this?people often talk about all the uphevel taking place in the Church.How is a Pope suppose to carry out his job when he’s attacked by his own members?unless a Pope or clergy member does something outrageous we should leave him aloneIMO.
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Dale_M
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I don’t understand… why do you think John Allen is attacking the pope?
Allen is a Vatican reporter, and part of his job involves analysis of events to put them into context. I don’t think the article he wrote was hostile to Pope Benedict. Indeed, I would think that many Catholics in this forum would welcome the changes that Allen is pointing to.
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PJD1987
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I don’t think this particular article illustrates it well if you’re not familiar with NCR and his previous writings, I don’t believe Allen is thrilled about the Holy Father, he wanted a liberal pope in the 2005 conclave.I don’t understand… why do you think John Allen is attacking the pope?
Allen is a Vatican reporter, and part of his job involves analysis of events to put them into context. I don’t think the article he wrote was hostile to Pope Benedict. Indeed, I would think that many Catholics in this forum would welcome the changes that Allen is pointing to.
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Tsuwano
Guest
I agree with you. I don’t think the article was hostile at all and, in fact, I do support the changes that Mr. Allen refers to.I don’t understand… why do you think John Allen is attacking the pope?
Allen is a Vatican reporter, and part of his job involves analysis of events to put them into context. I don’t think the article he wrote was hostile to Pope Benedict. Indeed, I would think that many Catholics in this forum would welcome the changes that Allen is pointing to.
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Tsuwano
Guest
It doesn’t matter what Mr. Allen wanted in 2005. This particular article is not offensive toward the Pope at all and, in my view, is supportive of what the Pope is doing. I am familiar with NCR and recognize a liberal or progressive bent in its reporting. That doesn’t mean the paper isn’t valuable or doesn’t have particular insights to offer concerning the Church. To critique this particular article based on what Mr. Allen may have written or thought in the past does not give credit to what he is writing now and is unfair. Take the article at face value and let it go at that.
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laszlo
Guest
Priests and religious are set aside to God. Earthly entertainment, no matter how successful and lucrative is, is not for them. This does not mean that earthly entertainment is wrong in itself, only that priests and religious are not to be involved in that.
There is nothing revolutionary in this. The said fact is that many churches became entertainment centers, as an easy way to draw people, and destroy the sacred character of the church for the success. The Church always taught that this is wrong.
There is nothing revolutionary in this. The said fact is that many churches became entertainment centers, as an easy way to draw people, and destroy the sacred character of the church for the success. The Church always taught that this is wrong.
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Tsuwano
Guest
Not quite sure what you are saying here. Do you mean that priests are religious should not watch movies or listen to opera? What about a game of golf or, like Pope John Paul II, enjoy skiing and hiking once in a while? These are all earthly entertainments, aren’t they? Heck, I even presume that the good Lord himself, since he spent so much time with fishermen, cast a net into the lake for fun and relaxation every now and then. I think your statement is too sweeping.
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PJD1987
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I totally agree with your sentiment and did say the article doesn’t illustrate it well, I was merely juxtaposing what he has written before and what he wrote now and simply giving my opinion that I don’t think he is particularly happy with it all. However, we’re all entitled to our opinions, to me what he wrote in 2005 does matter given that it sheds some insight to what he writes now and is interesting to wonder, given his previous writing, what he thinks of the current goings on in the Church and to read his writing through that lens. That’s all I was saying, it wasn’t about this particular article, though I used it to make a larger point. Thank you for your thoughts!
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curlycool89
Guest
No kidding. A religious priest I know told us (not in a homily, it was outside of Mass
) how he saw all 3 Lord of the Rings movies, and even won the chance to go to a pre-screening of the 3rd movie (I think that’s what it was). I know a religious priest who goes scuba diving in Hawaii during spring break.There seems to be a stereotype about religious. People seem to stuff all male religious in the “monk” box and all female religious in the “nun” box; the praying all the time never doing anything secular at all. Religious may do activities which are not primarily religious in nature.
Look at one of the more famous, the Sisters of Life in New York. In the article that was brought up from Time on CAF it talked about them playing volleyball. Volleyball is a really fun sport, and it’s very brain intensive; you can’t pray the Rosary while playing volleyball (if you do, you’re going to miss a. getting the ball b. where the ball is c. a block d. positioning e. where the attack line is …).
Everyone needs to unwind a little and have a little brain break. You’ll burn out otherwise.
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JReducation
Guest
Wait a minute. Let’s not get carried away here. There are some forms of entertainment that are out of our reach, because they are too expensive or because they are not appropriate for a religious or a priest. However, there are many forms of entertainment. One doesn’t wipe them out with one stroke.
Many religious not only play sports, but also enjoy watching a good game. In the book "\Light of the Word they author asked Pope Benedict what he enjoyed doing and he mentioned two things in particular. He enjoys the movies and he enjoys going out to a restaurant. He said that he misses the restaurant scene, but unfortunately that’s no longer possible, because of security issues, not because he’s a priest. Before he was pope he was an employee of the Curia. Because he is a secular priest, he was probably paid rather well, which meant that he could afford to go to restaurants and movies. Now, he has the movies brought to him.
When Bl. John Paul was pope, he ordered the construction of an olympic pool at Castel Gandolfo. When the furnace office objected his answer was rather humorous, “It is more expensive to elect a new pope than to build a swimming pool.”
There are many other forms of diversion in which religious and clergy engage that are harmless and healthy. Someone mentioned the Sisters of Life in NY. Actually, they challenged the Franciscan Sisters of the Renewal to a game. I don’t know of a seminary that does not have a basket ball court.
Even hermits, such as the Carthusians understand the value and the need for distraction and entertainment. They have a weekly walk and spend the afternoon laughing and talking like any other group of guys.
In my community, we go to movies when we have the money. It’s not something that we do frequently, because movie theaters are very expensive and don’t have salaries as do secular priests and religious who teach. On the other hand, my brother is arriving tonight for Memorial Day weekend. He always takes me out to dinner and to do something fun. We’ve been doing this for several years and I look forward to being with him and going out with him. We get one family visit per year and we go home once every five years. Doing something fun with a loved one, once a year, is not unreasonable.
We have to be careful not to over compensate or to impose regulations on priests and religious that the Church does not impose or that the founders did not have in mind. In my Franciscan tradition, we have anecdotes by the early brothers of the recreational activities involving Francis and the early friars and nuns. They had activities that were appropriate for that time and for their economic condition. They played games, sang songs, did comedy routines, had picnics and they even laughed and teased each other.
Let’s go easy on this. There are forms of recreation that are inappropriate for different people because of their state in life, their age, their culture or their economic situation. There are other forms of entertainment and recreation that are perfectly healthy and reasonable.
Fraternally,
Br. JR, OSF
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Kardinal
Guest
I find this extremely difficult to believe. Just because he PREDICTED a more liberal pope (I’d love to see his list of papbile) does not mean he WANTED one. And Cardinal Ratzinger was NOT the only conservative Cardinal at the time.
I have heard no less than Father Zuhlsdorf as well as many others speak very well of Mr. Allen and his writings, and they are far more “conservative” than I am on many matters. I find it unlikely that Mr. Allen is not an orthodox Catholic.
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PJD1987
Guest
Everyone is entitled to their opinion, I thank you for your thoughts. Mr. Allens articles from the 2005 conclave is still available online, I don’t have the link handy at the moment, but itsavailable if you’re interested.
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Kardinal
Guest
Actually, I’ve been looking and can’t find them. NCR’s archives appear to go back no further than 2006 for his blog ncronline.org/blogs/john-l-allen-jr?page=23 and 2010 for his column: ncronline.org/blogs/all-things-catholic?page=6
When a charge like that is leveled against someone, we should be ready to back it up, lest we fall into sins of detraction, rash judgment, or calumny.
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PJD1987
Guest
Here is the link of Mr. Allen’s Papabile list for you:
nationalcatholicreporter.org/update/conclave/top_candidates.htm
And to your further point, it is simply my opinion, having an opinion is not a sin. We are allowed to have opinions and disagree. But again, thank you for your thoughts.
God bless,
PJD1987
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PJD1987
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Here is another link you may be interested in reading as well that speaks more directly to the point I was trying to make. Of course, as I’ve said numerous times, we’re all allowed to hold our own opinions on the matter. In any event, here is the link to the article:
lifesitenews.com/news/opinion-john-allens-strategy-for-legitimizing-catholic-dissent
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