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John Lennon’s Imagine is ‘heart-chilling’, says bishop in Christmas homily
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zab
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Good for Bishop Davies. I have sung along to other songs with catchy tunes but not so nice lyrics, eventually realizing that I shouldn’t be singing along to them. For me, “Imagine” was a turn off from the beginning (“Imagine there’s no heaven…”) I never liked that song, nor wanted to sing along to it. And it is sad when I see a young singer on American Idol , who grew up singing in the church choir, choose to sing John Lennon’s “Imagine” on the show, and the parents and everyone are caught up in the emotion not even thinking or caring what the words really mean. 
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zz912
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Who exactly is excluded from this teaching? How are we to know someone who does not deserve their wages? Is it by what they wear, or what about if they own a company? At what point do owners not deserve their wages?
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simple_soul
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I’m sorry but I really don’t understand you. You are totally confusing me, I am almost lead to believe you are trying to do it intentially but am not sure. Regardless of that I don’t believe this discussion is being very productful. We don’t even seem to be talking about the same thing. So I will have to bow out of trying to discuss this with you any further.
Have a Wonderfuly Blessed day.
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philipl
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Clearly, when its read Jesus was upset at merchants inside the Temple. I cant find any proof anywhere that Jesus overturned the tables of profiteers in the market square. Jesus also didnt seem to have an issue with money as he had a treasurer that managed the groups funds. Nothing is said as to how they got the money. Maybe Jesus did some carpentry, Peter did some fishing to earn money.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cleansing_of_the_Temple
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simple_soul
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So…if I am understanding you correctly,…your saying that it’s ok to exploit people as long as it’s not being done in the Temple?
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philipl
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So now making a profit is the same as exploiting people? So instead of trying to make Jesus action fit your beliefs, why dont you make an effort to understand what is was saying.
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simple_soul
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Your the one that said it. I was just questioning you for clarification because what it seemed like you were saying did not make sense.
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simple_soul
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m.youtube.com/watch?list=PLTv1DBgBZ-1m87DjjQ2lqkLP1m2DewOjO&v=foUrBztgzZA
I hope the link comes through above.
What this beautiful talented and gifted young singer sings is what I believe John Lennon was beginning to grasp and trying to convey in his own way through the his music.
I hope the link comes through above.
What this beautiful talented and gifted young singer sings is what I believe John Lennon was beginning to grasp and trying to convey in his own way through the his music.
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OldArmyDog
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So many people like to romanticize the 70’s but there were so many things wrong about it that are rarely discussed and most often “shoved under the rug”.
At the risk of the ire of some, I will relate a very personal memory from both sides of the 70’s. I went into the Army at 17 in the very early 70’s. As I was making my way to my first duty station on a long, long bus trip, I had less than three dollars to last 4 days of bus travel as the Army did not have any room on planes for new recruits. There was a tremendous amount of materiel being moved around as well as seasoned troops at the time. This was during the time that South Vietnam was falling and Israel was in grave danger and many thought we were headed back to war possibly on multiple fronts.
As usual in the Army, there had been a mix-up and my food money/vouchers were lost in the system yet I had to report or be listed as AWOL; such is Army life (or was) at times. I was in a Southern state in a large city, tired, as clean as I could be from cleaning up in restrooms and with only two uniforms and a couple of sets of other wear and I was hungry. I had not eaten in quite a few hours. Anyway, they had a sale on a burger, no fries but a cup of coffee to go with it for a bit less than a dollar. I made the purchase and as the young woman was getting ready to slide it to me, she lifted the top bun and spit on it and put it back on the burger. I simply said, "No thank you ma’am, tipped my cover, shouldered my bag and went to wait on the bus.
While I was sitting there an older gentleman who had bought the same meal came and sat beside me and split his in half and shared it with me, including half his coffee. Time has taken his name from me but the memory remains.
That was not the only rude awakening to what the romanticized 70’s were to someone just trying to serve his country. Though so many like to say things like this never happened, I was hit from behind with bottles, spit at more times than I care to consider and called vile names by people who had no idea who I was other than the fact that I was wearing the uniform of one of their country’s armed services.
When I started at university in the later 70’s, the shock really hit me. I enrolled in mathematics and computer science but took liberal arts classes (I love history) and in too many of those, your politics and your religious beliefs became battlegrounds unless you were content to sit and listen to “professors” who seemed to have only read one little red book defile everything you believed to try and survive the class and not fail.
Four years in the Army including a year learning to walk again taught me one thing and that is that if you want something or if you believe in something you have to be willing to stand up for it and if necessary fight for it. I went toe to toe with multiple history professors and a couple of political science professors and wound up with them in the Dean’s office with all my work to finally get honest grading but I never backed down and I will not to this day. I am very aware that this country has made mistakes just as some have noted in threads here that the Church has had some issues from time to time. Any institution that has humanity in the loop (or anything programmed by humanity) is likely to have parts that are not exactly pristine examples; it is simply a sad fact of life that we mortals tend to fall away. This does not mean that the Church or this Country needs to be torn down or done away with because there have been those bad examples.
I apologize for the lengthy reply but that song has always raised my hackles because it was aimed at the heart of everything that could make this planet a wonderful place. Christianity in my belief can be equated to pure love. Maybe that is an oversimplification but it is what I feel when I read Scripture. This country is about freedom and though the horrifying evil of slavery existed not just here but across the world at this country’s founding, it was not the foundation of this country as many revisionist historians would want you to believe; read The Federalist Papers and other documents around the framing of the Constitution and the Declaration of Independence before you make judgments based on someone whose opinion might just have a bit of a slant to it. The original authors were an amazing group of people of varying religious and social beliefs but they were mortals and therefore made mistakes.
Finally, of course my opinions are slanted for I have total Faith in Almighty God and his only Begotten Son Christ Jesus. I also believe with all my heart in this country though I have many worries about what my grandsons will see in their lifetimes if we continue on the paths we seemingly have chosen as a nation.
If my words have offended anyone then I beg you for your forgiveness and do so with an honest and open heart for I never want to offend anyone on purpose. If my beliefs offend you then we will simply have to disagree for I simply will not waver from my Faith.
I hope you all have a Blessed day!
OAD
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zz912
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Let’s take the example of an electrician, Bob, who owns his own business. Your A/C unit breaks and you call him. He comes out and gives you an estimate for replacing the unit. You agree and he replaces the unit and has your home comfortable again. Does Bob deserve his wages, the price he quoted you? Yes or no.
I’m sorry but I really don’t understand you. You are totally confusing me, I am almost lead to believe you are trying to do it intentially but am not sure. Regardless of that I don’t believe this discussion is being very productful. We don’t even seem to be talking about the same thing. So I will have to bow out of trying to discuss this with you any further.
Have a Wonderfuly Blessed day.������
Now let’s change up this scenario. You call him up, but instead of coming out himself, he sends Joe to do the job. Joe quotes the price and replaces it. Does Bob still deserve to be paid what was quoted? Yes or no.
Now in both instances, there is profit that Bob will make from performing this job for you. Does Bob lose his right to his wages because he sends out an employee to perform the service?
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edwest2
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For soldiers in the early 1970s, the My Lai Massacre further tainted a war that was run by Saigon and not commanders in the field. The Hippies and Anarchists further incited anti-war feelings among the public. The early 1970s saw this country stabbed in the back by its own government. As the “war” in Vietnam was winding down, outsiders who hated Christianity began opening Adult Bookstores selling graphic porn, strip clubs and topless bars. Their lawyers told us it was all legal when just a few years before, the worst you could legally buy was Playboy and maybe a few girlie magazines sold under the counter if you knew where to look. No, it was the start of the media turning its back on Christian values and the Supreme Court declaring killing babies in the womb was legal.
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edwest2
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There was nothing to romanticize about the 1970s unless a person thinks turning normal living upside down was a good thing. We had dropped more bombs on Vietnam than all of Europe during World War II. The VC didn’t have B-52 bomber fleets or aircraft carriers. President Nixon presented his “Peace with Honor” plan but resigned as President in 1974. The only President to do so. I was there. I saw the drug users and sex maniacs and those who hated all authority preach and live their gospel. Romantic? Of the few sane things that briefly remained in the early years, maybe, but 1973 was the turning point. So no, the rest of the 1970s was part of the growing trend of marketing sexual perversion and the destruction of the family which continues to this day.
Ed
Ed
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OldArmyDog
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Thank you.
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edwest2
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You’re welcome.
Best,
Ed
Best,
Ed
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simple_soul
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Thank you for taking the time to try and explain what you are trying to say. I believe I understand you more clearly.
I am still sure there is a difference between making a profit and earning ones wages.
Regardless of that, I would like to address this post a bit more but have a very busy weekend and do not know if I can articulate well what my thought are on making profit . when I get a minute I will try.
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philipl
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The problem is that too many liberals believe that profits are the same as exploitation. . (Unless its George Soro’s. Which strangely enough, is exactly the type of person jesus was kicking out of the temple.)
You see, what happened in the temple was this, folks were arriving from all over, and when they went to purchase an animal to sacrifice, they were told they would need to exchange their money for the local currency. Which they were charged a huge unfair rates. These folks were the mafia of their time. Not only that but his father house was a place for prayer not for commerce.
No where is Jesus against profits obtain thru legal means. How many people here use Google to do searches? yet google makes as much as 50% profit on every dollar. Should that be illegal? Would Christ Object?
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philipl
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Just because you believe it doesnt make it true.
Here is a quote from Lennon himself about the song. “[Imagine] is anti-religious, anti-nationalistic, anti-conventional, anti-capitalistic… but because it is sugar-coated, it is accepted” And as I said, religious liberals are willing overlook the anti religious so they can go alone with the anti-nationalistic, anti-conventional, anti-capitalistic. Liberals hate profits, unless they are making them.
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irishpatrick
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Manure wrapped in a pretty blanket is still manure.
A terrible song wrapped in a nice melody is still a terrible song.
A terrible song wrapped in a nice melody is still a terrible song.
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Moro_Rock
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Thinking about that song. I’ve always loved music and that tune is so
catchy ! Then I noticed exactly what it was saying and decided not
to play it any more. It reminds me of Eve in the garden ’ she saw
that the fruit was good to eat ’ Satan tries to disguise evil by making it
seem to be good . .
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