John Lennon’s Imagine is ‘heart-chilling’, says bishop in Christmas homily

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bisco1 said:
yellow submarine is quite good, compared to some of their other songs.😛
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It’s kind of sing -song-y. Someone mentioned “Michelle”…It has a good melody…there are better arrangements than theirs. George Martin, Bennett, Sinatra. 👍
 
Thelonious Monk is fun to listen to if you are into jazz. Also the basics - Duke Ellington, I also like Benny Goodman actually, a lot.
 
actually, when you think about it, if you wanted to sell music in the 60’s and 70’s, ‘imagine’ was brilliant.
 
Just for fun I was thinking about this song a bit more (Imagine) knowing this thread was active. Now for a bit of hypothesizing and having some fun on my own about the song from a different perspective: A different spin.

When you think about the words of the song it actually kind of describes….Heaven! Think about it a bit. No religion in heaven because all will be one in praise of God! 🙂 No possessions, nothing to kill or die for, people living in peace, nothing to kill or die for, and no countries. Certainly an unintended perfect description of heaven.

But of course Mr. Lennon (and the atheistic people who usurped the song since) didn’t intend it to be a song about Heaven. It was a call to have this all on Earth. There is ONE BIG error in thinking this way. You can promote no possessions and no religion and all the rest but there can never be heaven on Earth because there is one significant “thing” that these people and Mr. Lennon never account for or purposely forget…SIN!!! No matter how hard or how sincere people might be in trying to “Imagine” as it were, sin would ultimately become part of the equation and foil the utopia.

There will never be Heaven here on Earth. Imagine is a perfect yet unintended and unwitting description of Christian Heaven!!!🙂

So the next time someone says, “Yeah man, Lennon was talking about a perfect Godless world” (or some c r a p like that), mention this and watch their reaction!
 
**“Imagine” is not even the best song written by the Beatles. And even if it were, genius is NOT what gets you into heaven. And getting to heaven is the most important thing in the world, IMHO.
**
 
Nice melody—shame about the lyrics.
He had many lovely songs that could only be admired.
If you were to hear one for the first time that genuinely pleased your senses, not knowing the artist, and afterward informed that it was John Lennon, would you counterintuitively condemn the song?

Condemning the man is God’s place only. His murderer thought otherwise.
Love the sinner. Hate the sin.
If we don’t have the opportunity to correct the fault then turn away from it.
God loved the man as He does all His creatures.
So should we.

Imagine we were asked to edit the lyrics…

[my feeble attempt]:

Imagine there’s no heaven >>> Imagine yourself with Jesus & Mary in Heaven
It’s easy if you try >>> It’s easy if you try
No hell below us >>> avoiding hell below us
Above us only sky >>> among God’s Elect beyond the sky
Imagine all the people living for today >>> Imagine all the Body of Christ living peacefully

[what would you contribute?]

Imagine there’s no countries >>> ______________
It isn’t hard to do >>> ______________
Nothing to kill or die for >>> ______________
And no religion too >>> ______________
Imagine all the people living life in peace >>> ______________

You, you may say >>> ______________
I’m a dreamer, but I’m not the only one >>> ______________
I hope some day you’ll join us >>> ______________
And the world will be as one >>> ______________

Imagine no possessions >>> ______________
I wonder if you can >>> ______________
No need for greed or hunger >>> ______________
A brotherhood of man >>> ______________
Imagine all the people sharing all the world >>> ______________

You, you may say >>> ______________
I’m a dreamer, but I’m not the only one >>> ______________
I hope some day you’ll join us >>> ______________
And the world will live as one >>> ______________

Life on the Rock by Jean Ann and Joe Hand
youtube.com/watch?v=v2OVqQAyPds
 
Some food for thought from Father Hardon:

*Do you believe that some pop music is satanic in origin?
*
I think most pop music is satanic in origin.

*Can we recognize it?
*
Well, by now, as you know, it’s non-melodic noise. One of my definitions of pop music: Non-melodic noise.

*How can we help young people who listen to this music all day and all night?
*
Provide…and this can be a wonderful apostolate…provide good, satisfying music. I don’t necessarily mean, the Adoro Te. But, good, secular music that will be satisfying. Yes.

And by the way, I made a study of this pop music. Most of it is satanic, and it comes mainly from polytheistic cultures where they have evil deities. In other words, it’s the kind of music they play in honour of their evil deities, which for us, of course, would be in honour of the devil. And it has a devastating influence on the human mind and the human will.

Ecclesiasticus 40:20
Wine and music rejoice the heart, but the love of wisdom is above them both.
 
i see his point, but it’s a tough call. even the church can’t decide what is appropriate worship music and what is not. lyrics are a bit easier to define, and pennon had a lot of great lyrics opposed to a few bad ones. and the bishop may feel the same way. he was only using imagine as an example of the secular thought process regarding violence and war.
 
DaddyGirl said:
He’s kidding, right?
(Scrupulosity!)

So, if something sounds melodic–as most pop music does–it is *not *satanic?

This is how we know if it is satanic or not?
Depending on it if has a melody or not?

Oy.

.
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I don’t quite understand it myself.

…perhaps this sounds “satanic”…? 🤷
youtu.be/CFZ9g9vEdbE
 
Lennon has the song “Bring on the Lucie (Freda People)”, it certainly is a protest type of song, I’m not sure about Utopian. But this line is interesting:
We understand your paranoia
But we don’t want to play your game
You think you’re cool and know what you are doing
666 is your name
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That last line always jumped out at me, he probably has other such imagery in his lyrics. That line isn’t too bad though, I could be wrong or it may not really signify much.
 
TEPO said:
Paul butterfield? Herbie Hancock? 👍
Watch “The Paul Butterfield Blues Band " East West " Liv…” on YouTube
The Paul Butterfield Blues Band " East West " Liv…: youtu.be/TnN6_I1z-2E
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Listen to Alice Cooper, some of his music is real Christian rock.

cnsnews.com/blog/michael-w-chapman/alice-cooper-christian-world-belongs-satan?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=marketing&utm_term=facebook&utm_content=facebook&utm_campaign=b-alice-cooper

Article from CNS just came out.
“The world doesn’t belong to us, it belongs to Satan,” said Alice Cooper. “We’re living with that. We’re bombarded with that every day.”
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“[A]lmost everything I wrote was good and evil,” he said. “Don’t pick evil. Even when I wasn’t Christian, I was saying that. God and the Devil. Don’t pick the Devil. It’s a bad idea.”
Click to expand...
 
DaddyGirl said:
He’s kidding, right?
(Scrupulosity!)
So, if something sounds melodic–as most pop music does–it is *not *satanic?
This is how we know if it is satanic or not?
Depending on it if has a melody or not?
Oy.
.
Click to expand...
Father’s answer about it’s origin makes sense yet he doesn’t explain how the non-melodic description relates.
It is said that satan prefers shapeless, structureless sound without melody, harmony or logic.
What is noise to one person can be meaningful to another; what was considered unpleasant sound yesterday is not today.
Our ears prefer harmony to dissonance, but even that is complex, because in the hands of a great composer, selective dissonance can be moving and beautiful, too.
Perhaps it has something to do with touched upon in this article:
“Christian” Rock Music
Christian or Satanic?
av1611.org/crock/crock1.html

It remains quite a controversial topic of discussion. Some found on these threads:

Do you believe today’s music is satanic?
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=814422

Can rock and pop music lead one to religion?
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=761153

Modern Pop Music…
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=602292

is it wrong that I listen to this music?
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=568282

Is there Satanic subliminal messages in Popular Music?
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=147267

Would listening to these songs be sinful?
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=486759

Listening to Dirty Immoral Music
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=500910

Appropriate Pop Music
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=884348

“Safe” pop music - does it exist anymore?
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=894662

Should Catholics listen to secular music?
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=780604

My own view tends to fall somewhere between these two posts:

forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=10672907&postcount=13

forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=11089594&postcount=24
 
Sometimes art can take on a life of its own, so to say. There’s one art dictum that says, “the viewer completes the piece”. In this case the listener. ‘Imagine’ certainly has pride of place in the hymnal of the church of no god. And it has acquired an anthem-ish status among the worldly. Lennon was just dreamer as most poets are. I don’t think he intended the song as the manifesto it has currently become for some. I never sensed it promoting anything but one man’s irrational utopian fantasy. And the melody, while pleasant, remains melancholic.

PeterK
 
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