John MacArthur's ironic comment of the day

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If the bible is not the infallible Word of God, then why read and study it. It is either all true and infallible or not. There is no error in His word. What you are saying is that the Word of God given by the Holy Spirit contains error.
Slow down, take a breath, and go back and read what Benedictus wrote. The Word of God (Scripture) is both inspired, and inerrant. That means It is without error.

We read it and study it because it is inerrant and inspired.

The Scripture does not have a will, discernment, and the capability of action, therefore, it cannot act without error. It records and preserves without error, but it cannot exercise authority because it does not have the ability to take responsibility for it’s actions, which is a requirement of authority. You have tried to press the Holy Scripture into a role that was never intended for it.
 
Thank you my friend. Its a shame that so many people still have a veil covering their eyes to the Word of God. Rom 10:17 says that faith comes by hearing, and hearing comes by the Word of God. Faith doesn’t come from the church or the pope, priest or anyone from the catholic church. It plainly states that it comes from the Word of God. This morning I will go to my church, hear the Word of God, not some priest who talks more about other things that the Word. I will also open my bible where my pastor will teach and give us plenty of scriptures to enforce His teaching and I will leave very blessed. I pray that all will have a blessed day.
So why would you need to listen (translated: oral tradition) to your pastor preach? The Bible and the Bible alone should be sufficient for you.

Ah, but you do need an earthly guide don’t you? The Bible is a bit too much for you to interpret on your own isn’t it?

If you can’t see the contradictions in your position, please, get another bottle of visine.
 
If you can read this: thank a teacher. If you can read this in English: thank a soldier. If you love Jesus: thank a pope. 👍
 
If you can read this: thank a teacher. If you can read this in English: thank a soldier. If you love Jesus: thank a pope. 👍
If you can read this, thank a Catholic 😃 We basically established modern education, you know.
 
If you can read this, thank a Catholic 😃 We basically established modern education, you know.
👍

And then when little Johnny fakes being sick and does not want to go to school, mom can take him to the hospital - another entity strongly built and strongly maintained first by the Church:thumbsup:😃
 
You gave examples of infallibility but not definition. So here is a definition.

Infallible A adjective: incapable of failure or error.

The definition speaks of a capabality. Capabilities are not attributes of inanimate objects. The Bible being a book cannot be said to be either capable or incapable.

So therefore if what you want to convey is that there is no error in the Bible the word is Inerrant, ie.e. free from error
The definition of infallible is not limited to the unreferenced definition that you gave; it can easily mean what I posted above, as I showed with reference to source. The point here is, is that guanophore is quite off base in his assertions re God’s Word supposedly not being infallible. I am sure he will come back and explain again to people why it took him such and such number of pages to reply to me again; but he won’t be able to prove from the Bible that the Bible is infallible.

Capabilities are indeed attributes when it comes to God’s Word. MacArthur is on the right track with what he says about SS.
 
Slow down, take a breath, and go back and read what Benedictus wrote. The Word of God (Scripture) is both inspired, and inerrant. That means It is without error.

We read it and study it because it is inerrant and inspired.

The Scripture does not have a will, discernment, and the capability of action, therefore, it cannot act without error. It records and preserves without error, but it cannot exercise authority because it does not have the ability to take responsibility for it’s actions, which is a requirement of authority. You have tried to press the Holy Scripture into a role that was never intended for it.
My breathing is just fine thankyou.

In order for something to be “infallible;” it doesn’t require a will. That is a “rule” you conjured up with your own brand of private interpretation.

Once again you preach blatant falsehood. The Word of God does indeed have the ability to “discern:”
For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. (Heb.4:12)
 
The definition of infallible is not limited to the unreferenced definition that you gave; it can easily mean what I posted above, as I showed with reference to source. The point here is, is that guanophore is quite off base in his assertions re God’s Word supposedly not being infallible. I am sure he will come back and explain again to people why it took him such and such number of pages to reply to me again; but he won’t be able to prove from the Bible that the Bible is infallible.

Capabilities are indeed attributes when it comes to God’s Word. MacArthur is on the right track with what he says about SS.
The Catholic Church chose the word “infallible” to refer to actions conducted under the power of the HS that are without fault. Therefore, the Catholic Church has the right to use their own definition of the word when applying it to Catholic theology. The defintion Benedictus gave is the correct one.

You can, as the Reformers have done, redefine words, and invent alternative theologies, but that will not change what the Church has defined as True. Infallibilty requires the ability to act. Scripture does not act, therefore, Scripture cannot be infallible.

You are correct, I do not “prove” anything from the Bible. The Bible is the inspired inerrant Word of God, and it is a faith based document. It was never intended to be used as “proof” for anything, but to lead people to Christ. This is not a scientific collection of books, and does not lend itself to scientific “proofs”.

The Bible does not claim to be “infallible”, therefore, there is no need to use it’s contents to prove that it is not. On the contrary, the burden of proof is upon you to prove that it is. Apparently you can only do this by departing from the definition of infallibility that is used by the Church.

I agree that capabilitiies can be attributes. It is an error to attribute infallibility to the Scripture because this is not a quality of Scripture.
 
The Catholic Church chose the word “infallible” to refer to actions conducted under the power of the HS that are without fault. Therefore, the Catholic Church has the right to use their own definition of the word when applying it to Catholic theology. The defintion Benedictus gave is the correct one.

You can, as the Reformers have done, redefine words, and invent alternative theologies, but that will not change what the Church has defined as True. Infallibilty requires the ability to act. Scripture does not act, therefore, Scripture cannot be infallible.

.
To clarify…

Infallibility is a “negative” protection, as promised by Jesus Christ.

What it means is this: The Catholic Church, more directly, the Magisterium of the Church is protected by infallibility. This does NOT mean they, humans, are perfect and without error.

It means that if the Pope, and/or the other Bishops in union with him… declare something as Truth in Faith or Morals, then they are correct, and (here is where infallible comes in) the Holy Spirit will prevent them from error in their declaration.

When we read in Scripture that the “…what soever you bind on earth…” etc, we would be better informed with a more accurate translation…

“…what soever you shall bind on earth, has been bound in heaven, and what soever you shall loose on earth, has been loosed in heaven…”

Truth never changes. All truth is in heaven. For the Church to define, clarify, declare a Truth is not invention. It is the Church revealing what was, is and always will be… Truth!!

And that Truth, already bound in Heaven, is the action of the Holy Spirit leading the One Church into all Truth.

.
 
It means that if the Pope, and/or the other Bishops in union with him… declare something as Truth in Faith or Morals, then they are correct, and (here is where infallible comes in) the Holy Spirit will prevent them from error in their declaration.
That certainly is what you’re told, and as a RC you must believe it. It’s what makes you distinctly a RC, rather than, say, an Eastern Orthodox Catholic.
 
That certainly is what you’re told, and as a RC you must believe it. It’s what makes you distinctly a RC, rather than, say, an Eastern Orthodox Catholic.
Right… the East, without allegiance to the Chair of Peter, as instituted by Christ , are not protected from the error they made, However, the error has only to do with Peter and his chair, not with the Doctrines of the Faith of the Church founded by Jesus. Thus, they have valid priesthood, valid sacraments etc,

Outside the Catholic Church, that does not exist.

/
 
Right… the East, without allegiance to the Chair of Peter, as instituted by Christ , are not protected from the error they made, However, the error has only to do with Peter and his chair, not with the Doctrines of the Faith of the Church founded by Jesus. Thus, they have valid priesthood, valid sacraments etc,

Outside the Catholic Church, that does not exist.
Yes, that’s certainly what you’re told and as a RC you must believe it. It’s what makes you distinctly a RC.
 
Yes, that’s certainly what you’re told and as a RC you must believe it. It’s what makes you distinctly a RC.
And Protestantism teaches that the individual is free to interpret Scriptures as he feels. The key word, here, is “feels”. Its the Protestant dogma of private judgment. You still haven’t explained why preachers are necessary though. It must be that the private judgment of an individual is fallible, eh?
 
If it were not for the councils, you would not have a Bible.
What does John McArthur, the subject of this thread, teach regarding the role councils play in our having the Bible today? Which council gave us the Bible? What is the difference between the Old Testament of the Jews and the Old Testament of the RCC? Do the Jews have an RCC council to thank for their Bible? I’ve heard that at the Council of Trent, there was not one official present who knew koine greek, is this true?

In humble appreciation,
Jon
 
And Protestantism teaches that the individual is free to interpret Scriptures as he feels. The key word, here, is “feels”. Its the Protestant dogma of private judgment.
Protestantism teaches?”
You still haven’t explained why preachers are necessary though.
Eph. 4:11.
It must be that the private judgment of an individual is fallible, eh?
Certainly. All men are fallible, save the Son of Man. But as a RC you’re told by your Magisterium that your Magisterium is infallible and as a RC you must believe it. It’s what’s makes you distinctly a RC.
 
"Protestantism teaches?"Eph. 4:11.Certainly. All men are fallible, save the Son of Man. But as a RC you’re told by your Magisterium that your Magisterium is infallible and as a RC you must believe it. It’s what’s makes you distinctly a RC.
Please re-read the meaning of infallible as it applies to the Church… it is a negative protection with 265 Popes, and 2000 years of evidence that the Church has never taught a false Doctrine, nor denied a True Doctrine,

In between … well we have our share of “stinkers” for popes and bishops… but the promise of Matt 16:18 still holds, still is active, and still in Christ’s promise only to the Church He founded… which today the world recognizes as the Catholic Church. No other faith community can even come close to making that claim.

.
 
Do the Jews have an RCC council to thank for their Bible?
The Jews have the “tradition of the elders” to fall back on. Similar to the Catholic understanding of Sacred Tradition. The deuterocanonical books were taken out of the Torah by Pharisees in the first century because they deemed it as not following mosaic law, which understandably was their main argument against Christianity.
I’ve heard that at the Council of Trent, there was not one official present who knew koine greek, is this true?
This council did not give us the Bible.

EDIT: One last thing, it is only through the authority of the Catholic Church that Protestants accept the Bible.
 
"Protestantism teaches?"Eph. 4:11.Certainly. All men are fallible, save the Son of Man. But as a RC you’re told by your Magisterium that your Magisterium is infallible and as a RC you must believe it. It’s what’s makes you distinctly a RC.
Yes, Protestantism teaches private judgment.

Protestantism historians until modern times used to say there were two fundamental principles of the Reformation, an objective and subjective one. The former was the unique authority of the Scriptures, independent of tradition; the latter justification by faith alone without good works. While still considered important, these principles are now subordinated to a deeper issue from which they were both derived. Underlying them was the Protestant belief in the inspiration of the individual and the corresponding right of private judgment in matters of faith. Consequently, the real point of difference between Protestants and Catholics was not the canon or authority of the Scripture, but who has the right of interpretation. Catholics believe the infallible Church, Protestants said the inspired or enlightened individual.

The dichotomy has not substantially changed. Against the Church’s claim that only she has the right to explain the inspired text, contemporary Protestants hold the opposite. They may not agree on the conditions required for valid interpretation, but on one point thay all concur - it is not an ecclesiastical body and least of all the Catholic Church.

Though widely different and apparently contradictory, two streams of thought came out of the original Lutheran concept of private interpretation. Divine grace through Jesus Christ speaks directly to the heart of the believer. Consistent with this principle, Luther threw out the so-called Apocryphal books, declared that in many places the Scriptures had erred and even conceded that another New Testament might be written to improve on the first one. His fundamentalist followers blandly teach that " Christians are individually taught by the Spirit of God, so that they are slaves to no one as they study the Scriptures. Each individual believer is able by the grace of God to read the Scriptures for himself, receiving the benefit of divine illumination." Extreme forms of this illuminism are found among the minor sects of Pentacostals, the Holiness movement and, on a more respected plane, among the Quakers.

A variant form of Bible individualism dispenses not only with special guidance of the Holy Spirit but with any kind of scientific inquiry into the proper meaning of the text. Since, “the entire Christian doctrine is revealed and set forth in Scripture passages so clear that the learned and unlearned alike can understand them, they do not stand in need of exegesis for explanation. If Scripture did not have this quality, it would not be for all Christians ‘a lamp unto their feet and a light unto their path,’ nor would all Christians be able to establish the truth of their faith by Scripture and in the light of Scripture to mark and avoid false teachers.” As an expression of biblical Protestantism, this statement could scarcely be improved. Sectarians who wished to hold onto to some form of dogma could not follow Luther to the conclusion of his premises; that way led to chaos and the end of organized Christianity. Neither would they accept the Catholic magisteium. They took the middle course of setting up the Bible as the only and ultimate norm of Christian belief. Thus authority was met with authority, a book against an institution or, as the fundamentalists prefer, the word of God, instead of the word of man.

However, the more common idea of private interpretation took Luther at his word. It seemed a trifle to insist on a special illumination for interpreting Scripture. Enough to know that every one has a spark of the divine within him to sift the wheat from the chaff in the Bible and derive what he can from the wisdom of the ancients. His tools in the process are historical and literary criticism. With these he recovers the true Jesus of history. Following the lead of men like Harnack, for whom the Gospels are “not altogether useless as sources of history,” and Bultman, who marvelled, “what a primitive mtholog, that a divine being should be incarnate,” liberal Protestants still use the vocabulary of dogmatic Christians, but they no longer believe in the concepts. No major denomination has escaped the solvent of rationalism, not excluding traditional conservative bodies. Lutheran churchmen/women tell the people “with a new light and more adequate interpretation of the biblical writings, changes in doctrine are not only anticipated but necessary,” and although highly recommended as the literature of a nation, “the Protestant Episcopal Church does not ask you to make a formal statement of belief in the Bible.” You may, therefore, be a professed Christian and believe in the Scriptures, but you are not obliged to accept them as divinely inspired and still less hope to find there any secuity of doctrine.

Yes, Protestantism teaches private judgment.
 
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