John MacArthur's ironic comment of the day

[Jon_Hus]

The Jews have the “tradition of the elders” to fall back on. Similar to the Catholic understanding of Sacred Tradition. The deuterocanonical books were taken out of the Torah by Pharisees in the first century because they deemed it as not following mosaic law, which understandably was their main argument against Christianity.

This council did not give us the Bible.

EDIT: One last thing, it is only through the authority of the Catholic Church that Protestants accept the Bible.

I’m disappointed that you didn’t answer my questions but I guess you did the best you could.

 

[M0nkey]

I’m disappointed that you didn’t answer my questions but I guess you did the best you could.

Very mature.

But the truth is you must believe all that is presented to you from the Vatican to be considered “Catholic” under the authority of Roman Pontiff and the Magesterium (the teaching authority).

Your lack of catholic understanding is astounding. The pontiff does not conjure up random doctrine based on the whiff of the times as Protestants seem to do (As an example, study up on what happened to the teachings regarding contraception). Theology is the art of asking questions, even so, debating and discussing the meaning behind the question. It is only when serious disputes arise that the authority of the magisterium has a final say on the truth, so it doesn’t lead to dissension. A question for you, what happens when your fellow church member while reading the same Bible comes up with a completely different understanding? Hopefully that will shed some light on things. In light of the truth, it takes humility to accept God’s authority.

 

[Pixie_Dust]

I think it is more a lack of knowlege of what mystery is - full stop. To an extent, Protestant theology is materialistic theology for the very reason that it craves the mystical.

I’m discussing the Eucharist with someone on another forum and this really nails their thinking. I was asked, in reference to the Real Presence of Christ in the Eucharist, something like, “With all the bread and wine that’s been distributed over the years, how is it that Jesus’ body hasn’t run out?”

 

[Pixie_Dust]

I can tell you what I personally believe based on the authority of thepneustos Word of God alone. And I can do this because of the bravery of certain men to get the Scriptures back into the hands of the “laity” for whom they were written.

Most of the laity for most of the last 2000 years has been illiterate. In the 16th century, if you could read at all, you could also read Latin. Even if you could read, that did not mean you could afford a Bible of your own, as they cost about a year’s wages.

Scripture in the hands and language of the laity sounded good to Luther - until he saw the ramifications of every person reading the Bible for themselves and not agreeing with HIS interpretation.

 

[Jon_Hus]

Most of the laity for most of the last 2000 years has been illiterate. In the 16th century, if you could read at all, you could also read Latin. Even if you could read, that did not mean you could afford a Bible of your own, as they cost about a year’s wages.

Scripture in the hands and language of the laity sounded good to Luther - until he saw the ramifications of every person reading the Bible for themselves and not agreeing with HIS interpretation.

Do you just make this stuff up on the fly or is there a guide book available?

 

[Pixie_Dust]

Thank you my friend. Its a shame that so many people still have a veil covering their eyes to the Word of God. Rom 10:17 says that faith comes by hearing, and hearing comes by the Word of God. Faith doesn’t come from the church or the pope, priest or anyone from the catholic church. It plainly states that it comes from the Word of God.

Just so happens we Catholics hear quite a bit of the Word of God in church, more, MUCH more than I heard read when I was a Baptist.

This morning I will go to my church, hear the Word of God,** not some priest who talks more about other things that the Word. **I will also open my bible where my pastor will teach and give us plenty of scriptures to enforce His teaching and I will leave very blessed. I pray that all will have a blessed day.

You’ve never *ever *been to Mass, have you? The majority of the words spoken by the priest are straight from Scripture!

 

[Protestant101]

Your anti- “Romanism” is leaking, moon, and this spriit of hostillity seems to be urging you to post these falsehoods.

Yes. This is one of the most fundamental, and probably the most damaging doctrines of the Reformation. Attributes were ascribed to Scripture that it does not posess. An attempt has been made to force the Scriptures in to the role of “authority” which Scripture cannot fulfill, because scripture lacks the qualities necessary for this.

And the doctrine of SS, because everyone who reads the scripture interprets, makes each one his own authority.

Your anti-Protestantism is leaking out - like a sieve here, and elsewhere. When you cannot “win” by Bible explanation; you join other Catholic forum members here who seem to relish characterizing whatever Protestant is on their hit list as “spirit of hostlity” or “hate” or any number of such buzzwords and meaningless cliches. Catholic “Apologetics” teaches you to do this to people; whereas the doctrine of SS teaches one to search the Scriptures for an answer and then to tell others what you read.

You keep struggling to point out “differences” in the various denominations of Protestants in a warped effort to “disprove” SS - but there is nothing wrong with people seeing something in the Bible differently; for Bible history will ALWAYS show God’s people in a state of growth, and developing knowledge and obedience. Your struggle here is just about as wobbly as Bel & Nebo’s idols would have been when carried on the back of a donkey. (Isa 46:1).

You and a few others are also teetering on the brink of mythos and confusion when you try to deny your Church is The Roman Catholic Church In several major cities I have been in recently; I have seen Catholic Board Of Education vehicles all with the following logo: “Roman Catholic Board of Education.” To deny this and a hundred other examples of your top leadership, in many different areas all condoning the use of ROMAN Catholic; is to admit that you do need to get some extreme reality into your dogmas here. I believe you are guilty of private interpretation on this point, and I would like to see proof from official Catholic sources that we should not use ROMAN Catholic when referring to your denomination; but I would also like to see why so many of your ministries, in countries around the world use the term ROMAN Catholic, with full approval from the top.

I think the reason this topic was started is because MacArthur taught Sola Scripture, as taught in the Bible. And yes; that would be, and is a real threat to Catholic doctrine. About all you can do now guanophore is to simply appeal to Roman Catholic Church “authority” (which you did yesterday) to assert you points on this. Protestants will continue to resort to the Bible; and the differences of doctrinal understanding will never separate them half as much as you would like people to think.

 

[Pixie_Dust]

Do you just make this stuff up on the fly or is there a guide book available?

No, I don’t make this stuff up, nor does the information I posted come from any one source. Americans are so driven by literacy that we forget that a large percentage of the world’s population still doesn’t read, some don’t even have an alphabet for their language. Does that mean they can’t be saved?

 

[moondweller]

guanophore:

No again, moon. First, the Magesterium is not “Roman”. Second, no authority can come from oneself and be valid. “For there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been instituted by God.” Rom. 13:1

Interpret this verse in context, guanophore. Paul’s talking about human government, not Apostolic authority or the political evolution of church authority in history (cf. Titus 3:1; 1 Pet. 2:13).

Actually, this is not true either. You, as well as all other members of the Body of Christ are also under the authority of the Successor of Peter. You reject the authority that was appointed by Christ, which means that you are a rebellious subject of the Roman Pontiff.

I reject the idea that Peter even had a “successor.” According to the theopneustos Scriptures the church Christ is presently building is being built “on” the “foundation” of the Apostles (Eph. 2:20). That is, on their teachings which were delivered to the churches first orally and then preserved for future generations in theopneustos Scriptures. What God has revealed in the Scriptures regarding the church Christ is presently building is very different from what we read regarding the political evolution and power struggles between the western and eastern church (the Bishop of Rome vs. the Bishop of Constantinople).

The authority appointed by Christ comes through the Apostles, to whom it was given. The connection is found in unity of doctrine.

Christ gave authority to the Apostles who were His eye witnesses of His bodily resurrection (Acts 1:8,22; 1 Cor. 9:1). There could be no Apostolic “succession” since (1) that office is foundational in nature, laid down only once and then built upon; (2) a prerequisite was that of being an eye witness to Christ’s bodily resurrection. Who do you claim to be Peter’s “successor?” Clement? Do you say that your church is being built upon his teachings? What are they? Are they in theopneustos writings? Did he personally see the resurrected Christ? Who came after Clement? Did he have those credentials?

It would not matter if the Successor of Peter was still in Antioch, or if he was in some other city.

Historically, by the end of the fourth century Christendom had come to be dominated by FIVE centers, each with its corresponding Bishop: Rome, Constantinople, Antioch, Jerusalem and Alexandria. Those Bishops had come to be called “Patriarchs.” But after the division of the Roman Empire into east and west the “Patriarchs” of Antioch, Jerusalem and Alexandria gradually came to acknowledge the leadership of Constantinople, and from that point on we read of the political struggle for the leadership of Christendom between Rome and Constantinople (west vs. east). Keep in mind “Christianity” had become the state religion and so the head of it would wield great political and spiritual power over the people.

But this political struggle for power is all very different from what the Holy Spirit has revealed in theopneustos Scriptures concerning the true church Christ is quietly and presently building “upon the foundation” of the Apostles, Christ Himself its corner stone.

 

[moondweller]

Very mature.

Your lack of catholic understanding is astounding. The pontiff does not conjure up random doctrine based on the whiff of the times as Protestants seem to do

I never said the Pontiff conjures up anything. I said whatever doctrines are developed by the Roman Pontiff and the Roman Magisterium must be believed by all RCs (including those who have subjected themselves to the authority of that Magisterium (teaching authority). I don’t think this is at all a misrepresentation of RC’ism.

Please don’t misrepresent me by putting words in my mouth. :tsktsk:

 

[M0nkey]

I said whatever doctrines are developed by the Roman Pontiff and the Roman Magisterium must be believed by all RCs (including those who have subjected themselves to the authority of that Magisterium (teaching authority).

Again, the pontiff does not “develop” anything, they merely acknowledge the truth as REVEALED by the holy spirit. Your preconceptions are critically flawed here. Even if you don’t agree, don’t make stuff up about Christ’s Church. That’s how lies get spread.

 

[ppasa316]

Just so happens we Catholics hear quite a bit of the Word of God in church, more, MUCH more than I heard read when I was a Baptist.

You’ve never *ever *been to Mass, have you? The majority of the words spoken by the priest are straight from Scripture!

LOL Just to let you know I have been to Mass. I was a Catholic for 33 yrs. So I think I know a little about being a Catholic. I served in the Church for many years but lacked the Word of God. It finally got to the point that my family decided to leave. Shortly after I learned about giving your life to Christ. Which at the Catholic church we were never taught about salvation. I have been at Calvary Chapel for the last 10 years and learned more about the Word of God in 6 months than the 33 yrs I was a Catholic. We thank the Lord everyday for leading us to Calvary Chapel where we serve and are blessed learning God’s Word.

 

[Pixie_Dust]

LOL Just to let you know I have been to Mass. I was a Catholic for 33 yrs. So I think I know a little about being a Catholic. I served in the Church for many years but lacked the Word of God. It finally got to the point that my family decided to leave. Shortly after I learned about giving your life to Christ. Which at the Catholic church we were never taught about salvation. I have been at Calvary Chapel for the last 10 years and learned more about the Word of God in 6 months than the 33 yrs I was a Catholic. We thank the Lord everyday for leading us to Calvary Chapel where we serve and are blessed learning God’s Word.

How could you have lacked the Word of God when the Mass is saturated with it? If you weren’t taught about salvation in the Catholic Church you can’t have been paying much attention at all. Maybe I’m just in a unique parish.

 

[M0nkey]

I served in the Church for many years but lacked the Word of God.

Did you receive the Holy Eucharist at the altar knowing fully what you were receiving? This IS the Word of God.

 

[Pixie_Dust]

Did you receive the Holy Eucharist at the altar knowing fully what you were receiving? This IS the Word of God.

If he ever knew it, he doesn’t seem to believe it, since he was able to walk away from Him.

 

[Tomster]

Do you just make this stuff up on the fly or is there a guide book available?

Well, you could check out “Roman Catholicism,” by Boetner. (Talk about flying by the seat of your pants.) But, maybe you have checked it out already. It’s a great read if you like fiction. Most anti-Catholics swear by it as Gospel truth, you know, protestant oral tradition.

 

[moondweller]

Again, the pontiff does not “develop” anything, they merely acknowledge the truth as REVEALED by the holy spirit. Your preconceptions are critically flawed here. Even if you don’t agree, don’t make stuff up about Christ’s Church. That’s how lies get spread.

Semantics.

 

[ppasa316]

How could you have lacked the Word of God when the Mass is saturated with it? If you weren’t taught about salvation in the Catholic Church you can’t have been paying much attention at all. Maybe I’m just in a unique parish.

This is funny because i told my pastor that i would get this reply. Its always the person who wasn’t listening or paying attention. Could never be that it was never taught or the Word of God misrepresented. Guess i never paid attention the whole 33 yrs i was there. Oh well

 

[PJM]

=MarcoPolo;3856945]Today, United States Reformed minister and radio preacher John MacArthur has as his featured homepage article: “Is Roman Catholicism Biblical?”

In his argument that the Catholic Church is not Biblical, he cites as the most significant reason: “its denial of the doctrine of sola Scriptura”

Now that is some world class irony.

Well I guess that the best “defense” is a good offence, and this is certainly offending in that neither the good reverand, nor anyone else can porvide clear and concise Biblical evidence of the erreant theology.

There are two reasons for this.

For this to be a TRUTH, God would have to stop being God: “God is all and only all-good-Perfectly.” Because this defination is the TRUTH, his position cannot be!

If its in the bible, then provide “chapter and verse”? Its NOT!

Love and prayers,

Pat

 

[Pixie_Dust]

This is funny because i told my pastor that i would get this reply. Its always the person who wasn’t listening or paying attention. Could never be that it was never taught or the Word of God misrepresented. Guess i never paid attention the whole 33 yrs i was there. Oh well

It just baffles me, honestly, that you would say that, when I know full well how very much the Word of God is revered, read, and taught in the Mass. I’m sure you never got the Protestant version of “Follow the Romans Road, Pray this Prayer and if You Really Mean it in Your Heart, You’re Saved for All Eternity” salvation message, so if that’s what you’re saying, then I absolutely agree that the Catholic Church doesn’t teach that, because it’s not Biblical.

The Church* does* teach at every Mass, every day of the week, every hour of the day around the world that for our salvation, Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, that He was buried and rose again the third day. Thirty-three years and you never heard that?