John paul a saint?

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treeman39

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why??

even nelson mandello changed things, but he isn’t a saint. and could J Paul be popular more so because of media. whoever is the current pope is loved worldwide a great deal and often proclaimed special.

i didn’t particular like that kind of papal style - speeches read off a paper. i like it when people talk direcdly when they do talks. if one has somethign to say to me, let them speak to me.

did he get ‘moved’ by the Holy Spirit? I’ve observed that there are quite a few simple people around that are ‘empowerd’ with charisms to serve God.

can anyone explain to me why he is a saint?
 
treeman39 said:
why??

even nelson mandello changed things, but he isn’t a saint. and could J Paul be popular more so because of media. whoever is the current pope is loved worldwide a great deal and often proclaimed special.

i didn’t particular like that kind of papal style - speeches read off a paper. i like it when people talk direcdly when they do talks. if one has somethign to say to me, let them speak to me.

did he get ‘moved’ by the Holy Spirit? I’ve observed that there are quite a few simple people around that are ‘empowerd’ with charisms to serve God.

can anyone explain to me why he is a saint?
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Read some of his writings. The man was brilliant.
Learn about him, and then you will see.
 
A Saint is basicly someone who we know has gone to heaven - it does not have to be someone who has done great things - we will all be Saints when we enter heaven - he is someone who is reconized as being in heaven.The thief on the cross besde Jesus was told he would be in paradice - he didn’t live a life of great deeds but we know for sure he is a Saint.
What is your definition of a saint - obviously they must accomplish great deeds in this life for you to see them that way. Most of us will not be reconized as saints on this earth still doesn’t change the fact that we will be.one day.

John Paul was credited in certain ways with the fall of the USSR which began in Poland which was the first country to break away and the rest followed - he was deeply involved in this in .his fight against comunism.
 
If you have to ask, then you are clearly ignorant of his papacy. Read about his life, his holiness, his spirituality, his geopolitical accomplishments, his implementation of Vatican II through the New Evangelization and World Youth Day, his gift of the Catechism, his reigning in of theological error and scandal at universities and within religious orders , including Communist versions of Liberation theology. The simple fact that he helped maintain Polands Catholic identity in the face of Nazi occupation and Soviet domination would be enough to be a saint. The people declared him a saint upon his death with the chant, “santo subito” (sainthood now). The fact that the people recognized his holiness immediately is a very important factor in determining sainthood. And it simply is not true that every Pope within the media age is considered a saint. While I love Pope Benedict, and believe he is a saint, I doubt he will be recognized by the Church as such at least not for a long time.

Many so called Catholics who oppose Church teaching and believe in secular values of free speech without regard to scandal or confusion, and accept the philosophies of relativism and diversity for its own sake, oppose his canonization because they are only nominal Catholics to begin with and oppose anything that sustains truth and clarity of Christs teaching. I don’t really care what those people think; they simply do not understand their own faith. There is some legitimate concern about his handling of the sexual abuse scandal. This is one reason I do oppose a fast track process for his canonization. So that that his role in the crisis can be aired properly. I think he will be exonerated of any complicity, but it should be vetted carefully nevertheless.

The fact that you didn’t like his speech delivery, and aren’t aware of the history of previous papal canonizations are hardly reasons to deny sainthood to Pope John Paul II.
 
Pax Christi!

Mandella wasn’t Catholic.

St. John Paul the Great led a life of heroic virtue and the miracles attributed to his intercession have been verified. He was a great pope and a great man.

God bless.
 
Della said:
Pope Emeritus Benedict XVI believed John Paul II was a saint when worked with him: catholicnewsagency.com/news/benedict-xvi-i-knew-during-his-life-that-john-paul-ii-was-a-saint/.
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AMEN! Without St. JP the Great, we would not have had the brilliant theological writings of Pope Emeritus Benedict or our new Holy Father who not only preaches the Gospels, but lives by them! When he forgave his would-be assassin and then lead the world in the dismantling of the former USSR, he showed his true holiness. As a very young seminarian he studied in secret and at the same time was part of the Polish Resistance that tried to sabotage the Nazi occupiers. When I have read some of the nay saying SSPX crapola this morning about how St. JP the Great should never be a saint, I’m livid. They seem to imagine that a French Bishop who directly went against orders from the Pope should be a saint in his place.:eek:
 
hu324b said:
A Saint is basicly someone who we know has gone to heaven - it does not have to be someone who has done great things - we will all be Saints when we enter heaven - he is someone who is reconized as being in heaven.The thief on the cross besde Jesus was told he would be in paradice - he didn’t live a life of great deeds but we know for sure he is a Saint.
What is your definition of a saint - obviously they must accomplish great deeds in this life for you to see them that way. Most of us will not be reconized as saints on this earth still doesn’t change the fact that we will be.one day.

John Paul was credited in certain ways with the fall of the USSR which began in Poland which was the first country to break away and the rest followed - he was deeply involved in this in .his fight against comunism.
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Ah,has everyone forgotten the Hungarian Revolt of the 1950s against the communists and Cardninal Minzhenty?(think I’m misspelling his name). Not knocking him but there were attempts before Poland tried to break away and there were others clergy and laymen in Poland who worked on the subject as well. It didn’t just magically end because of John Paul II.
Also, the whole thing with Assi and all these people being there not just christians but other religions and their worship in a still active Catholic Church to me was wrong and so are the photos of him kissing the Koran.
Also don’t forget the Vatican Bank Scandal and all the clergy sex abuse cases.
I’m sure he was a good person in many ways,but it’s really too early for this.What’s the rush?
 
HollyDolly said:
Ah,has everyone forgotten the Hungarian Revolt of the 1950s against the communists and Cardninal Minzhenty?(think I’m misspelling his name). Not knocking him but there were attempts before Poland tried to break away and there were others clergy and laymen in Poland who worked on the subject as well. It didn’t just magically end because of John Paul II.
Also, the whole thing with Assi and all these people being there not just christians but other religions and their worship in a still active Catholic Church to me was wrong and so are the photos of him kissing the Koran.
Also don’t forget the Vatican Bank Scandal and all the clergy sex abuse cases.
I’m sure he was a good person in many ways,but it’s really too early for this.What’s the rush?
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No one is declared a saint because they never made mistakes or was a good administrator or had scandals to deal with. None of this matters in the least as to the saintliness of any individual no matter who he was. A deceased person’s name is put forward as a “servant of God,” his life (and writings if any) is investigated. If approved to go on, the person is named “venerable.” Then if 2 miracles occur when that person is invoked, he is named a saint. Sometimes this process takes centuries and sometimes a few years. The presiding pope can waive parts of the process if he sees fit. In the end, the canonization is done and is final and no longer open to debate. All the issues you raised were looked at, the proper steps were taken with JPII, as well as JXXIII, and with the canonizations this coming Sunday, there’s an end to it.
 
HollyDolly said:
What’s the rush?
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He is in heaven. There have been documented miracles attributed to him. What rush? Why wait? Because you are uncomfortable with things that he allegedly did? If so, then you shouldn’t accept the Church’s declaration.

Peace

Tim
 
pianistclare said:
Read some of his writings. The man was brilliant.
Learn about him, and then you will see.
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Does “brilliancy” make someone a saint?

Which one of the 7 heavenly virtues does that fit under ?

chastity, temperance, charity, diligence, patience, kindness, or humility?

The four cardinal virtues: prudence, justice, temperance (or restraint), and courage (or fortitude).

The three theological virtues: faith, hope, and charity
 
Orogeny said:
… Why wait? …
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Because it used to be warned by the Church that it should be that way. That waiting is a sign of prudence and a sign of charity if for the chance something should happen that something should come to light. Why wait, you ask? It has always been done that way throughout the history of the church- because it is prudent to do so.

Question is, WHY the not waiting? What’s the rush?
 
AnneElizabeth said:
Because it used to be warned by the Church that it should be that way. That waiting is a sign of prudence and a sign of charity if for the chance something should happen that something should come to light. Why wait, you ask? It has always been done that way throughout the history of the church- because it is prudent to do so.

Question is, WHY the not waiting? What’s the rush?
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This isn’t some obscure priest from some third-world country. He was the Pope. All of his warts and faults have been studied and studied and studied.

Two miracles have been attributed to him. What, in the future, will reverse those attributions? Do you require other proof that he is in heaven above and beyond the requirements that the Church has?

If you have some issue with the Church, then put yourself above her and declare that he is not in heaven. Then, the world can decide who to follow - you or the Church.

Peace

Tim
 
I imagine that if the internet would have been around at the time, we’d have heard many of the same lamentations about Francis of Assisi, who was canonized less that 2 years after his death.

Why is it so hard for some people to trust that the Church knows what she is doing? 😦 🤷
 
treeman39 said:
why??

even nelson mandello changed things, but he isn’t a saint. and could J Paul be popular more so because of media. whoever is the current pope is loved worldwide a great deal and often proclaimed special.

i didn’t particular like that kind of papal style - speeches read off a paper. i like it when people talk direcdly when they do talks. if one has somethign to say to me, let them speak to me.

did he get ‘moved’ by the Holy Spirit? I’ve observed that there are quite a few simple people around that are ‘empowerd’ with charisms to serve God.

can anyone explain to me why he is a saint?
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I don’t know if English is not your native tongue but this post is barely readable and could be considered offensive. I actually consider it offensive.
First off MandellA is not Catholic. To be a Saint, one must be Catholic. Second, His name is John Paul II When you reference him as J Paul or whatever it not only is disrespectful but it is also inaccurate. The Pope before him was Pope John Paul. He is not a canonized saint. So in regards to your title. John Paul is NOT a Saint (canonized)
From your post it would appear that you do not understand many things about this issue or this man himself. I encourage you to learn more about the process, and the man before you spout off about how you did not like his pontificate. Otherwise your stay on CAF will be short.

Welcome to the forums.
 
Orogeny said:
This isn’t some obscure priest from some third-world country. He was the Pope. All of his warts and faults have been studied and studied and studied.

Two miracles have been attributed to him. What, in the future, will reverse those attributions? Do you require other proof that he is in heaven above and beyond the requirements that the Church has?

If you have some issue with the Church, then put yourself above her and declare that he is not in heaven. Then, the world can decide who to follow - you or the Church.

Peace

Tim
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Tim,

What’s the point of beating down someone who has reservations? Why be angry and beat me and others down who do? Should we not speak up to what the Holy Spirit says in our hearts? Or can you be the judge of that?
Especially since I am following the CHURCH in what it has always said to do- and that is be patient, and be prudent, then why beat me?

What if one of those miracles (healings) suddenly reverses itself? That can and does happen… so, if that happens, were they healed or was it just a fluke of nature? How should the church (people) feel or think about that after if that happens? Was it a miracle or was it just ‘remission’ ? For this reason alone, lots of time should be given.

Again, what is the rush? If he is a saint, he is a saint and you can pray to him regardless of whether or not he is canonized.
 
AnneElizabeth said:
Because it used to be warned by the Church that it should be that way. That waiting is a sign of prudence and a sign of charity if for the chance something should happen that something should come to light. Why wait, you ask? It has always been done that way throughout the history of the church- because it is prudent to do so.

Question is, WHY the not waiting? What’s the rush?
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historically that is not true. Many saints were canonized either by the sheer popularity among the faithful or to highlight their cause. Pope’s have canonized their predecessor. In this case, you have another pontificate in between! Not only that but the Holy spirit has declared this to be the Will of God by fulfilling all the requirements to be a saint.

Those who think it is too fast seem to have an underlying objection that they don’t seem to want to vocalize for whatever reason.🤷
 
AnneElizabeth said:
Tim,

What’s the point of beating down someone who has reservations? Why be angry and beat me and others down who do? Should we not speak up to what the Holy Spirit says in our hearts? Or can you be the judge of that?
Especially since I am following the CHURCH in what it has always said to do- and that is be patient, and be prudent, then why beat me?

What if one of those miracles (healings) suddenly reverses itself? That can and does happen… so, if that happens, were they healed or was it just a fluke of nature? How should the church (people) feel or think about that after if that happens? Was it a miracle or was it just ‘remission’ ? For this reason alone, lots of time should be given.

Again, what is the rush? If he is a saint, he is a saint and you can pray to him regardless of whether or not he is canonized.
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If you are following the Church then you will be rejoicing on Sunday, not wondering why. Or how it is so soon. To follow the CHurch is to follow it ESPECIALLY in infallible matters. Which canonizations are.

Personally, you should have a much bigger problem with the other saint being canonized this sunday as a miracle was skipped as a requirement. Personally I could care less and I trust the Church but out of the two Popes getting canonized this weekend, one is more divisive than John Paul the Second to some people.
 
AnneElizabeth said:
Does “brilliancy” make someone a saint?

Which one of the 7 heavenly virtues does that fit under ?

chastity, temperance, charity, diligence, patience, kindness, or humility?

The four cardinal virtues: prudence, justice, temperance (or restraint), and courage (or fortitude).

The three theological virtues: faith, hope, and charity
Click to expand...
JPII exhibited ALL those qualities. I have to wonder why people are against it?
Why would anyone object to Sainthood of any person?
A look into his life shows that there is merit to his Sainthood.
As I said, read his documents, read his life story. It’s all right there. Pretty clear. 🤷
 
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