John Paul II's personal notes

  • Thread starter Thread starter ddimitro
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
D

ddimitro

Guest
I just read an article that JPII’s private secretary, the now Archbishop Stanislaw Dziwisz, will not burn the personal notes JPII took throughout his pontificate, although that was a specific request in his last testament.

news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20050604/ap_on_re_eu/poland_john_paul_s_papers

What do you think? Personally, if I took private notes and requested they be burned upon my death, regardless of the “great riches” someone thinks they might contain, they should be burned without haste or question. And to think they should be released at some point to the public–as the Archbishop alluded-- is frightening.

DD
 
It’s a tough call. What would I do if I were his secretary? I don’t really know.

On the one hand, JPII’s will DID state his desire for them to be destroyed, but on the other, I have no doubt that there are riches in every single word.

Could it be, that JPII actually wanted his secretary to have this opportunity to make this choice? Since JPII could have certainly made sure that those notes were destroyed before his death, if he was absolutely intent on their destruction, why would he have left this door open?

I say that we should keep an open mind on the Archbishop’s decision to save what is, without a doubt, the treasure of wisdom from the greatest man of our century.
 
I think one has to question what the pope’s intent was in leaving this instruction.

If his intent was that they be destroyed so that historians wouldn’t comb over his every single written word and attempt to attach it with the papacy, then yes, they should be destroyed.

If his intent was that they be destroyed so that shady characters wouldn’t engage in a sort of profiteering that goes on over relics and forgeries on EBay that we’ve seen recently, but Archbishop Stanislaw Dziwisz can prevent that by keeping them in his own and the Church’s possession, then no, there’s a valid reason they shouldn’t be destroyed since Dziwisz is fulfilling the pope’s intent.

Perhaps also there is much to be learned from what has been left in these writings. I doubt they’re as menial as “let’s try the coffee with two sugars instead of one.”
 
40.png
ddimitro:
I just read an article that JPII’s private secretary, the now Archbishop Stanislaw Dziwisz, will not burn the personal notes JPII took throughout his pontificate, although that was a specific request in his last testament.

news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20050604/ap_on_re_eu/poland_john_paul_s_papers

What do you think? Personally, if I took private notes and requested they be burned upon my death, regardless of the “great riches” someone thinks they might contain, they should be burned without haste or question. And to think they should be released at some point to the public–as the Archbishop alluded-- is frightening.

DD
Click to expand...
I heard about this on CNN today and it made me angry.
 
Hmm…what if the Pope revealed terrible secrets? I doubt it. But still…I’d rather not know.
 
Let’s look at when the pope wrote that provision: 1979. Shortly after his pontificate started and before he really had the full prestige which he now enjoys. It could well have been that the pope, himself, regaulrly got rid of anything of concern in the interim. Certainly, he continued to allow that provision to stand. But prudence may well indicate that the notes are of no harm and, indeed, offer great value.
 
Well he did update the last will and testament several times over the 26 years and had numerous opportunities to remove or amend that specific request. He chose not to.

Now my concern is this: If they choose not to fulfil the Popes wishes in death, did they fulfil his wishes in life? It certainly makes you wonder just what obedience is really there.

Of course on the flip side of the coin, they are saying that within the notes there are things that will aid the cause for our beloved late Popes, Beatification and indeed Canonisation.

So what do we do?

Ok folks. I have made a decision. I am with Archbishop Stanislaw Dziwisz on this. I trust him. He has worked with the Holy Father since 1966 I can’t for one moment think that Archbishop Stanislaw Dziwisz is holding them for any ulterior motive.

I trust him. I just hope and pray that Our Holy Father, in heaven, will understand.

Let us pray for the new Archbishop Dziwisz archbishop of Krakow that he will do all in his power to protect these notes and reveal whatever is necessary to see the Holy Father raised to the honours of the Altar.
 
40.png
Fergal:
Now my concern is this: If they choose not to fulfil the Popes wishes in death, did they fulfil his wishes in life? It certainly makes you wonder just what obedience is really there.
Click to expand...
I don’t think we need to look at things quite so legalistically here. It seems quite clear that the point of allowing the remant notes to live on is precisely because we all recognize just what an insightful, saintly man and teacher this pastor (John Paul) was; knowing well that his personal dispositions have something of great worth to offer.
I trust him. I just hope and pray that Our Holy Father, in heaven, will understand.
Click to expand...
I don’t think we have much of anything to fear there. It is only our own personal pecadillos about having things our way which leads us to have such concerns. And this is not the way of heavenly thinking, but earthly alone.
 
excuse me. doesn’t last will and testament mean precisely that?
i would certainly want my last wishes carried out. i would be extremely unhappy if they weren’t. it doesn’t matter if they are right or wrong. last will is to be obeyed to the letter.

i don’t want my children to be throwing money away on a funeral. why? put something in the ground to be consumed?

que me entierren con la banda!
 
40.png
jjwilkman:
i would certainly want my last wishes carried out. i would be extremely unhappy if they weren’t.
Click to expand...
In purgatory? There isn’t anything but happiness in heaven.
i don’t want my children to be throwing money away on a funeral. why? put something in the ground to be consumed?
Click to expand...
I’m afraid that you won’t ultimately have any say in the matter, no matter what your “will” is. In fact, no matter what they do, your will has been set at death and can no longer change.
 
Let’s look at it like this:

Your father tells you, before he dies, to burn all of his personal effects. Following the funeral, you begin to go through what he left behind. You discover wonderful and insightful letters he wrote to your mom while he was courting her. There is also a journal of his spiritual journey which offers a vision of hope through a difficult life. A few notes remain which illustrate his character and good humor. And then there are the scorecards from his beloved baseball team from games he attended (some with you and your children) over the years. You find yourself befuddled, asking “Can I REALLY just get rid of this part of my heritage, which could offer so much value of remembrance and guidance for me and my children for generations to come?” I think that is essentially where his personal secretary stands. And I think that the entire Church will one day likely thank him for making the decision he has. Indeed, perhaps Pope Benedict, himself, already has been approached about the matter and privately concurs.
 
I read the same article this morning. If it is indeed true, then something must be done about it. It is OUTRAGEOUS to think that someone could be so arrogant as to think that they had the right to deny the Pope’s (or ANY person’s) last request that his personal notes be burned. How dare they! This makes me sick. The Pope had his reasons and it is up to NO ONE to second guess them…

Karen Anne
 
Hypothetical----Maybe its possible that JPII changed his mind and forgot to change the will. Not saying this is true, just a thought. The entry to the will was made in 1979, right? Thats alot of time that went by. Probably before he actually wrote all those notes. It could be possible that he didnt mean all of them . If so, then which ones, only someone as close as Stanislaw could have known. I have to sympathize a little. They were very close and Im the same way, I hate to throw anything out because of the sentimental value sometimes felt.
 
Karen Anne:
I read the same article this morning. If it is indeed true, then something must be done about it. It is OUTRAGEOUS to think that someone could be so arrogant as to think that they had the right to deny the Pope’s (or ANY person’s) last request that his personal notes be burned. How dare they! This makes me sick. The Pope had his reasons and it is up to NO ONE to second guess them…

Karen Anne
Click to expand...
Agreed. And as they were personal notes, did the Archbishop even have a right to read them in the first place to discover their “riches?”

When we remove the sentimentalism, it’s a matter of disobedience.
 
…just guessing… he’s having a hard time with the prior Pope’s death… a life long friend… hard to part with his personal writings, probably like seeing him die all over again… i’m sure in time, he will do the right thing…👍
 
My understanding is that his intent was that there not be rough drafts of his writing published under his name. He was very careful in his published work that his writing carried the correct nuance and would in no way mislead from his true intention or sentiment.

It may be the intention of his secretary to allow the canonization committee to read the papers before they are burned, so that no rumor of some awful secret could remain.

Since it was the late Holy Father’s intent that the writing be destroyed so as not to mislead or give scandal, it seems fitting that the burning be delayed until it is certain that the burning will neither mislead nor give scandal.

I agree with Sarah Jane. Pope John Paul II trusted him utterly. We should not leap to conclusions. If he did not trust him or if the papers carried some dark secret, he would have seen to it that the papers were burned, himself, before he became too incapacitated to protect them, himself.
 
Sarah Jane:
He was very close to Pope John Paul II. I trust him.
Click to expand...
Trust NO person blindly…Friend or not. I would have a hard time trusting anyone who would go against such a direct request. If the Pope had not wanted it this way, he would have said so. He was a brilliant man who had enough sense to say what he meany and to mean what he said!

Karen Anne
 
“Given that, according to the legal dispositions, all the writings attributed to him must be collected, with this edict we order all those who are in possession of them that they send with due diligence to the same tribunal any writing that has the servant of God as its author, unless it has already been handed in to the postulation of the cause,” says the edict.

“We remind the faithful that with regard to his writings, we do not refer only to the printed works, which have already been collected, but also to manuscripts, diaries, letters and any other private writing of the servant of God,” says the document.

Source : zenit.org/english/visualizza.phtml?sid=71715
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top