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John Paul the Great?
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Lepanto
Guest
As me again in 100 years.
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Snerticus
Guest
I think he was a great spiritual man.
History will certainly judge him, but history has not always judged popes fairly.
Those who judge(d) him as heretical or āno big dealā will be judged with the same measure. Millions of youth who are now growing up have grown deeper in their faith becuase of his love for them and his prayers for them, so I think thatās a big thing in itself, especially when todayās youth in general are growing up in an ever more Godless and secular world.
And of course, God has already judged him. And Iām thinking favorablyā¦
I pray for his intercession all the time.
JMHOā¦
History will certainly judge him, but history has not always judged popes fairly.
Those who judge(d) him as heretical or āno big dealā will be judged with the same measure. Millions of youth who are now growing up have grown deeper in their faith becuase of his love for them and his prayers for them, so I think thatās a big thing in itself, especially when todayās youth in general are growing up in an ever more Godless and secular world.
And of course, God has already judged him. And Iām thinking favorablyā¦
I pray for his intercession all the time.JMHOā¦
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pnewton
Guest
This thread just asks for our opinion. There is nothing wrong with those who do not have a high opinion of his papacy. On the other hand, CAF is more orthodox and conservative than the average Catholic and this forum in particular does not reflect most Catholic thought. I believe popular acclaim will be on his side, minus the ones he angered to the left and to the right.
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Volodymyr_988
Guest
Poor Pope St. Nicholas, everyone forgets that he has been named The Great as well!
cfpeople.org/books/pope/POPEp106.htm
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pope_Nicholas_I
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Volodymyr_988
Guest
You do realize that there more martyrs en masse during the 20th Century than all of the other centuries combined, donāt you?
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daughteroftruth
Guest
Thatās the unfortunate effect when one feels the need to spend money traveling the world and telling people to practice their faith (whichever it happens to be) rather than focusing on the Church oneās chosen to lead. I donāt doubt his intentions, but then again, Luther had good intentions. āThe Greatā does not apply to John Paul II, God rest his soul.
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Chatter163
Guest
Yes, those nasty travelers, like St. Paul, St. Peter, St. James, St. Thomas, St. Andrewāshame on them. :tsktsk:
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JKirkLVNV
Guest
Traveling the world WAS focusing on the Church he was chosen to lead. He was the Supreme and Universal Pontiff and Pastor. He traveled the world in his role as the one who āstrengthened the brethren.ā
As has been mentioned, āthe Greatā is a popular epithet, not one formally granted by the Church. Heās got it locked in, Iād say, given that his successor has used it, etc.
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JaMc
Guest
I agree. I also think each Pope has a role/mission: JPII was to travel the world and draw attention to the Faith - be somewhat of a ācelebrity Pope,ā if you will. Also, he played a large role in the collapse of communism in Poland. However, granted, things were neglected āback homeā to a degree during this time.
Now, we have BXVI whose role, I believe, is to take a look back at what was neglected, and the mistakes that were made over the past 30+ years, and work on correcting them. In that respect, I think he has taken many steps in the right direction.
John Paul āThe Greatā? Possibly - but, as other posters have said, it is much too soon to tell at this point. History will judge.
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PJM
Guest
**My dear Brother in Christ, your understanding is not only incomplete, it a factually wrong.
The RCC and specifically the reigning POPE cannot teach in error on matters of Faith and or Morals." God Himself sent His Son as assurence of this fact.
**Mt. 16: " 15 He said to them, āBut who do you say that I am?ā 16* Simon Peter replied, āYou are the Christ, the Son of the living God.ā 17* And Jesus answered him, āBlessed are you, Simon Bar-Jona! For flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but my Father who is in heaven. 18 And I tell you, you are Peter, * and on this rock * I will build my church, and the powers of death * shall not prevail against it. 19 I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.ā** Then he
Acts 1: ā8* But you shall receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you; and you shall be my witnesses in Jerusalem and in all Judea and Samaria and to the end of the earth.ā
Acts 4: "8 Then Peter, filled with the Holy Spirit, said to them, "Rulers of the people and elders, "
Acts 20: ā28 Take heed to yourselves and to all the flock, in which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to care for the church of the LORD * which he obtained with the blood of his own. * 29 I know that after my departure fierce wolves will come in among you, not sparing the flock; 30 and from among your own selves will arise men speaking perverse things, to draw away the disciples after them.ā
2 Tim. 1:"13 Follow the pattern of the sound words which you have heard from me, in the faith and love which are in Christ Jesus; 14 guard the truth that has been entrusted to you by the Holy Spirit who dwells within us.
"John 14: 25 " 26 But the Counselor, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, he will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all that I have said to you."
John 16: "12 "I have yet many things to say to you, but you cannot bear them now. 13 When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth; for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come. 14 He will glorify me, for he will take what is mine and declare it to you. 15 All that the Father has is mine; therefore I said that he will take what is mine and declare it to you."*
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allhers
Guest
He also preached about Jesus to more people and in more places than anyone else ever did, he is indeed The Great!! Not only that, he loved the Blessed Mother too!
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malphono
Guest
ditto
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Timothysis
Guest
Is there any necessity to canonize them all in the same century? St. Joan of Arc died in 1431 and wasnāt canonized until 1920. Apparently, Pope Benedict thinks along the same lines as he has made it known that canonizations will proceed at the Vaticanās usual leisurely pace.
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Gottle_of_Geer
Guest
I think he was a disaster in a lot of ways:
- the handling of the molestation scandals
- the Assisi abomination, especially that of 1986
- his choice of bishops
- the Balamand Declaration
- the decision not to evangelise the Jewish people (the Gospel was for them in the first place !)
- all those sausage-factory canonisations & beatifications
- the extending of the Eucharist to non-Catholics in fact, even though not in principle: acts speak far louder than pages & pages & pages of verbiage
- jetting around the globe rather than cleaning up the mess in his own diocese
- continually sending out mixed messages as to what was Catholic
- the centralisation of power without any corresponding readiness to face up to the accompanying moral responsibility - they cannot be separated, least of all in the CC: if a bishop is going to have well-nigh unlimited authority, there is going to be a corresponding moral duty to those under that authority.
I think some of his ecumenical work was excellent - but that was not the kind of thing you asked forā¦
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benedictgal
Guest
As much as I love both Pope Benedict XVI and the late Fr. Richard John Neuhaus (who, I believe, was one of the first to use the word āgreatā in referring to Pope John Paul II), I would have to wait on the designation. I loved Pope John Paul II, but, I think that we need to look back with some objectivity as to what he did and did not do.
I think the best thing that came out of his papacy was his convincing a brilliant and eminent German theologian to come and clean up the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith. This ws the best gift that he could have left the Church.
Yes, he traveled the world, but, so did St. Paul, at least the known world at the time. Peter needs to see the flock and to strengthen them. However, during these trips, perhaps the time could have been spent to reign in the errant bishops and exercise some discpline. Even the ad limina visits could have been more effective, although, to his credit, he did clean up the mess with the Australian bishops conference which was allowing wholesale usage of General Absolution and other abuses. He also took a stand to curb liturgcial abuses, promulgating documents such as Redemptionis Sacramentum and Ecclesia de Mysterio. And, through th Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments, he laid the groundwork to fix the awful ICEL translations through the document Liturgiam Authenticam.
Yes, there were some huge blunders such as the Assisi debacle. As well meaning as his intenions were, the messages were certainly mixed and muddled. It was not one of his better moments. He probably should have taken a more direct role in handling the molestation mess, although, to his credit, he did delegate the duty to the former Cardinal Ratzinger who wasted no time trying to get the matter resolved.
Yes, I am giving the former Prefect of the CDF a lot of credit, but, he deserves it. He was John Paulās most loyal collaborator and the one who pulled a heavy share of the workload.
I think the best thing that came out of his papacy was his convincing a brilliant and eminent German theologian to come and clean up the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith. This ws the best gift that he could have left the Church.
Yes, he traveled the world, but, so did St. Paul, at least the known world at the time. Peter needs to see the flock and to strengthen them. However, during these trips, perhaps the time could have been spent to reign in the errant bishops and exercise some discpline. Even the ad limina visits could have been more effective, although, to his credit, he did clean up the mess with the Australian bishops conference which was allowing wholesale usage of General Absolution and other abuses. He also took a stand to curb liturgcial abuses, promulgating documents such as Redemptionis Sacramentum and Ecclesia de Mysterio. And, through th Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments, he laid the groundwork to fix the awful ICEL translations through the document Liturgiam Authenticam.
Yes, there were some huge blunders such as the Assisi debacle. As well meaning as his intenions were, the messages were certainly mixed and muddled. It was not one of his better moments. He probably should have taken a more direct role in handling the molestation mess, although, to his credit, he did delegate the duty to the former Cardinal Ratzinger who wasted no time trying to get the matter resolved.
Yes, I am giving the former Prefect of the CDF a lot of credit, but, he deserves it. He was John Paulās most loyal collaborator and the one who pulled a heavy share of the workload.
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JPUSC
Guest
Iām expecting the canonization of Pope Benedict XVI the Awesome in a few decades. 
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marymol
Guest
ā The spark to prepare the world for the second coming will come from Poland ā were the prophetic words to the first canonised saint of this new century .
The above words seemingly meant for the two recent and most well known canonised saints from Poland and very likely to be completed by Pope John Paul11 - as the third.
Many can allude to the power of his intercession as well as of the special graces many experience at his tomb ;seems God has / had great plans for Pope John Paul 11 -a Pope described as a man of deep prayer , through most hours of the night and of great sufferings , a Pope who died on a Mercy Sunday .
To most persons who have cherished his days in the church, the three most noteworthy accomplishments through this great Pope may be the following -
1- Consecration of Russia in union with enough Orthodox Bsihops , to have met the Fatima request ( indirectly, the call for unity in The Church ) and the subsequent massive change in the world ; we could have been in the thick of the arms race , communism , coups and bombings and worse ( and avoided the Iraq war too !)
2 - The clear and critical teaching through the writings on Theology of The Body - a most serious area that affect every person and family , with the potential for much good or evil ; in fact , it is even plausible that any criticism of the Pope or even of the ā Latin Church ā could have a hidden element of rejection of this truth and this should not be a surprsie either since it is the same old battle ground from our first days - with the enemyās ploy to destroy marriages through errors in this sacred area.
3 - Emphasis on the message of mercy and need to trust in our Lord , a message that has become widely accepted , esp. by lay persons world over , a message of crtical importance , in a world of rapid changes and turbulence .
His love of our bl.Mother , of the Eastern Churches, of the young and of the children and the supernatuaral , spiritual glow that emanated from him when seen in person (which T.V cameras could not capture ) and which seemed to even obscure the physical ailments of his last days - he has left us much to cherish and be thankful !
May his prayers be with us all !
May God have mercy on any who calumniate this Great and Holy Father !
The above words seemingly meant for the two recent and most well known canonised saints from Poland and very likely to be completed by Pope John Paul11 - as the third.
Many can allude to the power of his intercession as well as of the special graces many experience at his tomb ;seems God has / had great plans for Pope John Paul 11 -a Pope described as a man of deep prayer , through most hours of the night and of great sufferings , a Pope who died on a Mercy Sunday .
To most persons who have cherished his days in the church, the three most noteworthy accomplishments through this great Pope may be the following -
1- Consecration of Russia in union with enough Orthodox Bsihops , to have met the Fatima request ( indirectly, the call for unity in The Church ) and the subsequent massive change in the world ; we could have been in the thick of the arms race , communism , coups and bombings and worse ( and avoided the Iraq war too !)
2 - The clear and critical teaching through the writings on Theology of The Body - a most serious area that affect every person and family , with the potential for much good or evil ; in fact , it is even plausible that any criticism of the Pope or even of the ā Latin Church ā could have a hidden element of rejection of this truth and this should not be a surprsie either since it is the same old battle ground from our first days - with the enemyās ploy to destroy marriages through errors in this sacred area.
3 - Emphasis on the message of mercy and need to trust in our Lord , a message that has become widely accepted , esp. by lay persons world over , a message of crtical importance , in a world of rapid changes and turbulence .
His love of our bl.Mother , of the Eastern Churches, of the young and of the children and the supernatuaral , spiritual glow that emanated from him when seen in person (which T.V cameras could not capture ) and which seemed to even obscure the physical ailments of his last days - he has left us much to cherish and be thankful !
May his prayers be with us all !
May God have mercy on any who calumniate this Great and Holy Father !
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Brenda4God
Guest
I didnāt always understand JPII but I think he was great man and a great pope in some incredible ways. I will always love him for standing up to the atheists/communists. He was so brave and inspiring!! He was a wonderful emissary for our faith, too. Everyone loved him and I think everyone could see the love of Christ in him. I guess I would rather remember those great things. Does someone have to be great in everything to be called āthe greatā? I donāt know. 
He was a wonderful emissary for our faith, too. Everyone loved him and I think everyone could see the love of Christ in him. I guess I would rather remember those great things. Does someone have to be great in everything to be called āthe greatā? I donāt know.
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DavidPalm
Guest
Iām afraid I still must disagree with you. First, you stated that the Pope is āinspired by the Holy Spirit.ā Inspiration is a technical term in Catholic theology, reserved to the writers of sacred Scripture. So it is theologically incorrect to say generally that the Pope is āinspired by the Holy Spiritā; it would apply specifically only to Pope St. Peter when he was writing his two epistles. If you disagree, please cite the magisterial document that states that the Popes generally are āinspired by the Holy Spirit.ā**My dear Brother in Christ, your understanding is not only incomplete, it a factually wrong.
The RCC and specifically the reigning POPE cannot teach in error on matters of Faith and or Morals." God Himself sent His Son as assurence of this fact.
Second, you stated that āthe reigning POPE cannot teach in error on matters of Faith and or Morals.ā This is too broad to be correct. Rather, the Church teaches that under very specific circumstances and conditions he is infallible when he teaches:
when the Roman Pontiff speaks ex cathedra, that is, when, in the exercise of his office as shepherd and teacher of all Christians, in virtue of his supreme apostolic authority, he defines a doctrine concerning faith or morals to be held by the whole Church, he possesses, by the divine assistance promised to him in blessed Peter, that infallibility which the divine Redeemer willed his Church to enjoy in defining doctrine concerning faith or morals.
The Popes can and have erred in their ordinary magisterium and what you have described is a Protestant caricature of the Cathlic Faith, not what the Church herself teaches.
God bless.
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