John the baptist doubting Jesus

  • Thread starter Thread starter anon91549587
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
A

anon91549587

Guest
Hello ,

Did St john the baptist doubt Jesus before he was beheaded? I was reading tertulian (sp?) and his book about heretics which mentioned this.

Edit : tertulian’s opinion was that men of little faith were prone tp heresy and that heresy could help strengthen one’s belief. Im only a few pages in and not implying that SJTB is a heretic.
 
Last edited:
I don’t know the RCC official stance on it, but that’s how I saw it. He knew he was preparing the way for the Messiah, and knowing his death was likely coming, he was hoping his work wasn’t in vain.

I guess the other possibility was he was hoping Jesus’ answer would get John’s followers to switch over to following Jesus?

But I see nothing troubling about the literal reading. I definitely think mentioning him as a heretic for that is like 4 steps too far.
 
I’d say he was at least unsure, initially at least. that is why he sent his followers to ask Jesus if they should be looking for another. Jews at the time had a very different expectation of what the Messiah would be.
 
Xystus said:
I’d say he was at least unsure, initially at least.
Click to expand...
Initially? At that time, John the Baptist was in prison and going to die. He had already baptized Christ. He had seen the dove descend upon Him and the voice from heaven calling Jesus “[His] Son”. The time for initially had long since passed.

It could be that John the Baptist wanted reassurance before he died. Or tried to point his followers to Jesus so they could discover Him for themselves.
 
Last edited:
I think the OP is referring to Tertullian’s De Prescriptionibus Adversus Hereticos (On Prescriptions against Heretics), which is a theological treatise on the nature of heresy.

He references St John the Baptist in Chapter 8 (vol 2 col 21 of Patrologia Latina), wherein he discusses St John (as well as St Peter) doubting whether Jesus was in fact Christ at points in his ministry. He describes John as “de illo (Christo) certus esse deisset”: John wasn’t sure about him (Jesus being Christ).

Tertullian is not charging John (or for that matter Peter) with heresy: he’s just discussing their experiences of doubt in a general context.
 
ST John The Baptist said what he said for he benifit of his followers, because they were attached to him,
(he was sending them to Jesus).

Of course he knew who Jesus was, he recognized Him before he was even born.
 
Last edited:
Mac said:
ST John The Baptist said what he said for he benifit of his followers, because they were attached to him,
(he was sending them to Jesus).
Click to expand...
Yes, which is quite different than saying he sent them because he initially doubted Jesus’ claim as the Messiah while he was in prison, which took place after he had already seen and baptized Jesus.
 
Last edited:
Mac said:
Of course he knew who Jesus was, he recognized Him before he was even born.
Click to expand...
Even then it wouldn’t be strange for him to have doubts when staring death in the face. Even Abraham was afraid he was going to be killed childless in Egypt, even after God Himself said “I will make your descendants like the stars in the sky”.
 
Please explain what you mean by “double Jesus”

Stand in for Him? No.

Eyewitnesses testify to the faith as we know it.

Non-believers and those with impious imaginations, and who did not witness the event have concocted all manner of false stories and legends.

If you are new to the faith, not secure in your faith, or not well catechized, I think it best to read orthodox authors and not heretics or writings about them. The purpose of a heretic is to cause doubt. That is one of the devil’s primary tricks.
 
Last edited:
Ah! Danged spellchack, huh?

Two modes of thought on this:
  1. That Saint John may have been expecting a political leader who amassed great power - sufficient to expel the Romans. Thus, he was unconvinced.
  2. It is a rabbinical method to teach by (only) suggesting doubt so that one’s students may then inquire and learn the truth.
 
I agree with po18guy on point 1, except that this was a common belief among all the Jews of his time. I think John knew Jesus was the Lamb of God, sent to die for the world (the Suffering Servant). I think the question on John’s mind was more along the lines of “Are you also the Conquering King everybody is looking for, or he someone else?” Look at the way Jesus answered the question; by demonstrating the works that would be done by the Conquering King. Of course, this is my opinion, based on my understanding of the Scriptures and the historical setting of the Gospels.

Haven’t gotten around to any of Tertullian’s writings, so I can’t comment on that. I doubt John was a heretic in any sense of the word.

Hope this helps! Pax!
 
nfinke said:
I guess the other possibility was he was hoping Jesus’ answer would get John’s followers to switch over to following Jesus?
Click to expand...
That’s the way I see it.
But I see nothing troubling about the literal reading.
Click to expand...
The thing is, that’s not what the text says on its face. It’s not “John didn’t know, so he asked…”. Instead, it’s “when they heard what Jesus was doing, John sent his disciples to ask.”

So, if John is in prison, and his disciples are asking, “is this the guy?”, John could either say “yep; he’s my relative, and let me tell you what happened when I baptized him!”, or… he could simply point them to Jesus and say “go to Him.” He chose the latter.
 
Bithynian said:
John wasn’t sure about him (Jesus being Christ).

Tertullian is not charging John (or for that matter Peter) with heresy: he’s just discussing their experiences of doubt in a general context.
Click to expand...
Nowhere in Scripture is it said that St John the Baptist ever doubted Christ, before and after Christ’s birth.
Theological writings may diverse from the New Testament, but they can never contradict the New Testament. The Holy Spirit does not contradict Himself.
 
I always understood that story as John knew who Jesus was, but he wanted his disciples to hear it for themselves
 
EXACTLY.!! I dont understand why any one would prefer to speculate to the contrary.
 
anon91549587 said:
Did St john the baptist doubt Jesus before he was beheaded?
Click to expand...
John the Baptist recognised Jesus when they were both in the womb. St Elizabeth, his mother, recognised Jesus as the Messiah. John would have grown up knowing Jesus was the long awaited Messiah.
Then when Jesus came down to the Jordan for Baptism, John speaks very profound words on not being fit to baptise Jesus. After John baptised Jesus, the Holy Spirit came down and the voice of God said

Matthew 3 - 16 As soon as Jesus was baptized, he went up out of the water. At that moment heaven was opened, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and alighting on him. 17 And a voice from heaven said, “This is my Son, whom I love; with him I am well pleased.”

I have not read Tertulian and think he has an interesting idea on faith and heresy as you put it.

I believe when the disciples of John came to him and told him all that Jesus was doing, John wisely sent them back to Jesus with the question they were no doubt asking John. Jesus sent them back to John to tell him all the events they were witness to in Jesus performing miracles and ministering to the people. Jesus, after John’s disciples left, then spoke to the crowds and explained who John was.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top