Jonah and other Old Testament miracles

[Mikaele]

I find it hard to believe Jonah lived in a whale for 3 days or that the dead of the surrounding area walked around Jerusalem after the death of Christ. Could someone help me out please

 

[Barbkw]

I find it difficult to understand how God made our universe (and others) out of nothing. And how I can be the size I am when I originally started out at a microscopic level. ]

We are not God - and He is not confined by human inabilities.

 

[razredge]

Jonah was a story written to illustrate spiritual not historical truths.

 

[NotWorthy]

Jonah was a story written to illustrate spiritual not historical truths.

Are we sure of this? Doesn’t Christ praise the Ninevites for their conversion?

 

[COPLAND_3]

Here is a quote from my Study Bible on Jonah

Some have doubted that the book of Jonah is historical, and they teach that it is just a humorous didactic story, because the idea that someone was swallowed by a great fish and was in the belly for three days and nights and lived to tell about it seems to be too far fetched and too great a miracle to be actual history. But, CYRIL if God were said to be responsible however; who would still demur? the Divinity is powerful, and easily changes the nature of living things to whatever he chooses, nothing standing in the way of his ineffable wishes. AUG Either all the miracles wrought by divine power may be treated as incredible, or there is no reason why the story of the miracle should be believed. The resurrection of Christ Himself upon the third day would not be believed by us, if the Christian faith was afraid to encounter ridicule. I would be surprised that it would be reckoned what was done with Jonah to be incredible; unless, perchance, one would think it be easier for a dead man to be raised in life from his tomb, than for a living man to be kept alive in the belly of a whale.

The Lord appears to have referred to Jonah being in the belly of the whale as historical when He said, “For, as Jonah was in the whale’s belly three days and three nights; so shall the Son of Man be in the heart of the earth three days and three nights.” (Mt 12:40) The Lord also referred to Jonah as historical by comparing Himself to Jonah, saying, “For just as Jonah was a sign to the Ninevites, so also will the Son of man be to this generation.” (Lk 11:30) Highly unlikely Jesus would have compared His ministry to Jonah’s if Jonah’s ministry was fiction. Ancient Jewish history, and ancient Christian history (as we see in this catena) has always understood the book of Jonah to be historical.

 

[PJM]

=Mikaele;7869537]I find it hard to believe Jonah lived in a whale for 3 days or that the dead of the surrounding area walked around Jerusalem after the death of Christ. Could someone help me out please

OK! Your right:thumbsup:

So what then is the MORAL MESSAGE; and what dies this foretell in Prophsey?

Joha is neither a doctrine or a dogma of the CC. The Moral is and it’s typology is.

God Bless you,
Pat

 

[TimothyH]

I find it hard to believe Jonah lived in a whale for 3 days or that the dead of the surrounding area walked around Jerusalem after the death of Christ. Could someone help me out please

Read “Orthodoxy” by G.K Chesterton and you will see that there are a lot of things which because we are so familiar with them seem mumdane but when examined carefully are actually much more extraordinary than we realize.

What if Peter, James and John were to read an account of one man’s heart being placed into another man’s body or a story about how a man named Armstrong flew to the moon and came back?

The fact that I went from Orlando to Atlanta in one hour and four minutes yesterday is pretty miraculous. See what I’m saying?

-Tim-

 

[excubitor]

Jonah was a story written to illustrate spiritual not historical truths.

Grrrrr. Another denier of the scriptures.

 

[TimothyH]

Grrrrr. Another denier of the scriptures.

LOL.

 

[razredge]

Grrrrr. Another denier of the scriptures.

How is my interpreting a story according to its literary and historical context (as the Church teaches we should when interpreting the Bible) denying the scriptures.

I have never met a Catholic priest or bishop who believed that Jonah was actually inside the belly of a whale for 3 days.

 

[NotWorthy]

How is my interpreting a story according to its literary and historical context (as the Church teaches we should when interpreting the Bible) denying the scriptures.

I have never met a Catholic priest or bishop who believed that Jonah was actually inside the belly of a whale for 3 days.

So again, what does this do to Jesus’ contentions about his signs being the “sign of Jonah”? Is Jesus saying that His coming death is simply a metaphor or allegory? Its all going to be a fabricated story to teach a moral lesson? I certainly hope not.

I, too, find it hard to believe that Jonah could survive in the belly of a whale for 3 days, but I also understand that “All things are possible with God”.

 

[PJM]

excubitor;7871319]Grrrrr. Another denier of the scriptures.

No… not really

Can. 750 §1. A person must believe with divine and Catholic faith all those things contained in the word of God, written or handed on, that is, in the one deposit of faith entrusted to the Church, and at the same time proposed as divinely revealed either by the solemn magisterium of the Church or by its ordinary and universal magisterium which is manifested by the common adherence of the Christian faithful under the leadership of the sacred magisterium; therefore all are bound to avoid any doctrines whatsoever contrary to them.

While I choose too believe it; others may not; and no sin is committed IF we understand the underlying moral message and ACCEPT IT. It is alos a typology for the 3 days of “death” of the Lord [physical body; but not Soul; mind, intellect, freewill]

Mt. 12: [40] For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the whale, so will the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth. [41] The men of Nin’eveh will arise at the judgment with this generation and condemn it; for they repented at the preaching of Jonah, and behold, something greater than Jonah is here.

The Moral message is REPENT AND COVERT; TURN BACK TO GOD AND BE SAVED!

The Moral message MUST be grasped; accepted and applied to our lives. Believin that the fishy srory is true…Not so much… What about where jesus say’s “pluck out your eye?” Is that too literal?

Better BY FAR to Believe than NOT Believe!

God Bless,
Pat
God Bless,
Pat

 

[excubitor]

How is my interpreting a story according to its literary and historical context (as the Church teaches we should when interpreting the Bible) denying the scriptures.

I have never met a Catholic priest or bishop who believed that Jonah was actually inside the belly of a whale for 3 days.

Maybe Jesus wasn’t in the belly of the grave for 3 days either. Maybe that was a spiritual allegorical event and not an actual historical event also.

 

[excubitor]

No… not really

Can. 750 §1. A person must believe with divine and Catholic faith all those things contained in the word of God, written or handed on, that is, in the one deposit of faith entrusted to the Church, and at the same time proposed as divinely revealed either by the solemn magisterium of the Church or by its ordinary and universal magisterium which is manifested by the common adherence of the Christian faithful under the leadership of the sacred magisterium; therefore all are bound to avoid any doctrines whatsoever contrary to them.

While I choose too believe it; others may not; and no sin is committed IF we understand the underlying moral message and ACCEPT IT. It is alos a typology for the 3 days of “death” of the Lord [physical body; but not Soul; mind, intellect, freewill]

Mt. 12: [40] For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the whale, so will the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth. [41] The men of Nin’eveh will arise at the judgment with this generation and condemn it; for they repented at the preaching of Jonah, and behold, something greater than Jonah is here.

The Moral message is REPENT AND COVERT; TURN BACK TO GOD AND BE SAVED!

The Moral message MUST be grasped; accepted and applied to our lives. Believin that the fishy srory is true…Not so much… What about where jesus say’s “pluck out your eye?” Is that too literal?

Better BY FAR to Believe than NOT Believe!

God Bless,
Pat
God Bless,
Pat

I think the message is.

REPENT AND CONVERT;
Believe the scriptures. Both in their moral, spiritual and historical senses.

Abandon all modern day rationalism.

 

[PJM]

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excubitor, post:14, topic:240138"]
I think the message is.

REPENT AND CONVERT;
Believe the scriptures. Both in their moral, spiritual and historical senses.

Abandon all modern day rationalism.

Amen!

We can live with that

God Bless,

Pat

 

[razredge]

So again, what does this do to Jesus’ contentions about his signs being the “sign of Jonah”? Is Jesus saying that His coming death is simply a metaphor or allegory? Its all going to be a fabricated story to teach a moral lesson? I certainly hope not.

I, too, find it hard to believe that Jonah could survive in the belly of a whale for 3 days, but I also understand that “All things are possible with God”.

Jesus was speaking to people who were well acquainted with the story of Jonah and so used it to draw parallels with his own resurrection. It’s like how we reference a fictitious even from a book/movie/TV show etc to a similar even in real life.

Catholics are free to understand the story of Jonah and the whale as literal history or as didactic fiction

catholic.com/thisrock/quickquestions/keyword/Jonah

Maybe Jesus wasn’t in the belly of the grave for 3 days either. Maybe that was a spiritual allegorical event and not an actual historical event also.

This is hardly comparable. The fact that the apostles went from being scared and in hiding and not at all expecting him to rise again after the crucifixion to preaching the gospel to the corners of the Mediterranean world and being willing to face martyrdom for this is pretty strong evidence that a spectacular event like the resurrection did actually occur.

 

[excubitor]

Jesus was speaking to people who were well acquainted with the story of Jonah and so used it to draw parallels with his own resurrection. It’s like how we reference a fictitious even from a book/movie/TV show etc to a similar even in real life.

catholic.com/thisrock/quickquestions/keyword/Jonah

This is hardly comparable. The fact that the apostles went from being scared and in hiding and not at all expecting him to rise again after the crucifixion to preaching the gospel to the corners of the Mediterranean world and being willing to face martyrdom for this is pretty strong evidence that a spectacular event like the resurrection did actually occur.

And the fact that a whole city of sinful Ninevites would turn from their sins and repent in sackcloth and ashes with even their animals fasting is pretty strong evidence that a specatacular event occurred when Jonah was spat out on the shore and whitened by the gastric juices of the great fish, preached a message of repentance to those wicked sinners.

Why would you believe one spectacular story of the resurrection from death and deny the spectacular event of Jonah surviving the certain death of ingestion by sea creature?
Surely you will believe both, particularly given that Jesus himself used the pretty strong evidence of Jonah to convince us that he would be raised from the dead.

 

[razredge]

And the fact that a whole city of sinful Ninevites would turn from their sins and repent in sackcloth and ashes with even their animals fasting is pretty strong evidence that a specatacular event occurred when Jonah was spat out on the shore and whitened by the gastric juices of the great fish, preached a message of repentance to those wicked sinners.

Why would you believe one spectacular story of the resurrection from death and deny the spectacular event of Jonah surviving the certain death of ingestion by sea creature?
Surely you will believe both, particularly given that Jesus himself used the pretty strong evidence of Jonah to convince us that he would be raised from the dead.

Because it is a pious fiction, backed up by no historical or archaeological evidence (which the Gospels do) has none of the verisimilitude present in the Gospel accounts and has all the believability of a fairy tale. It’s not an issue of whether miracles can occur it’s an issue of sheer ridiculousness.

Would you believe that Jack & the Beanstalk recorded actual historical events if it happened to be included in the Bible?

And anyway, as I posted before even Catholic Answers says we’re free to believe the story is fiction.

 

[edwest2]

Jonah was a story written to illustrate spiritual not historical truths.

I think Jonah should be understood literally. The same God who raised the dead, gave sight to the blind and cleansed the lepers is not bound by human understanding or natural laws.

Peace,
Ed

 

[garysibio]

Jonah was a story written to illustrate spiritual not historical truths.

The book of Jonah is as historically accurate as it is spiritually accurate. There is absolutely no indication that the account given did not occur exactly as described. The Holy Spirit does not lie.