Jonah Story Literal or not?

[Nickos]

Hi all. Im an eastern orthodox christian and new to this forum. So i have trouble reading Jonah and similar other passages from the Old Testament. As an evolutionary christian as well and deep in science it just doesnt make sense to me. So is that verse and similar others to be taken as literal or not? Thanks and God bless

 

[Nickos]

Not really. As i said im an evolutionary christian. But even if the story is true how coukd the boar have thoughts? If i remember correctly i read that the Hebrew manuscript had given the boat having thouths of itself. So how can an object with no soul whatsoever could even talk?

 

[OurLadyofSorrows]

I love the stories of the Old Testament. Jesus did say the only sign we would have would be the sign of Jonah.
So what is that sign? It is about the immediate repentance and penance of Ninevah as soon as Jonah told them the message of God.

Jesus did say Repent for the Kingdom of Heaven is at hand.

We can be

As an evolutionary christian as well and deep in science

and still understand the basics of this message.
The Old Testament is packed with these messages.

With the boat having thoughts, and the gentile Phonecian sailors, once they hit the storm God had whipped up , the sailors started praying not to be destroyed, and the boat was creaking and groaning and knew of its impending destruction. This passage really tells us that even though the Jewish prophet Jonah was not scared enough to be fearful of God (he argued with God throughout the book)
Jonah was still intent on running away from his calling.
But the gentile sailors and even the boat knew of the power of Jonah’s God and were fearful.

 

[Nickos]

I get the message. But all i asked if it was literal. Jesus used parables to get across a message and i absolutely love it. So im asking if this is a similar case

 

[OurLadyofSorrows]

I get the message. But all i asked if it was literal. Jesus used parables to get across a message and i absolutely love it. So im asking if this is a similar case

We first meet Jonah as a prophet in King Jeroboam’s court. This king existed. Jonah is the son of Amittai, lives in a specific town and as a prophet , decides he wont do what God asks. It is true Ninevah is a great enemy of Israel. Jonah wants God to destroy Ninevah and not save it.
There are parts that are factually true. Chapter two is a poem, it is not a lament, Jonah is still not sorry. Chapter two is a different genre to the rest of the book which is a narrative.
Even at the end of the book Jonah, having been cross with God, arguing with God, being chastised by God, it is doubtful he is still truly repentant and accepts the work of God in saving the repentent Ninevah.
The ancient Hebrew writers used history, truths, geneologies, parables, really clever word smithing and words with double meanings to get their point across.
Do we know if a big fish swallowed Jonah?
We know the Phonecian sailors were very skilled, had different gods and resorted to prayer when they thought ships and lives would be lost in storms. They would throw payload overboard to lighten the load and hopefully save the ship.

God had already sent the storm, when He knew Jonah would run in the opposite direction. Points like this are lost in translation.
The hebrew words for what the ship did are not a boat talking, but its wood creaking and groaning as it is threatening to break up in the storm.
The author gives the ship its own identity. The ship is creaking and groaning and threatening Jonah and the gentile sailors with death, by doing Gods will and breaking up in Gods storm.

What other Old Testament passages are you struggling to entertain.

 

[InThePew]

Okay so I got curious and Googled this. Turns out, Sperm Whales do have a reported history of swallowing people and, while it’s unlikely anyone would survive all that long, 3 days (and nights) but be at the outer edge of survivability (or it could just be allegorical because, after all, it’s not like Jonah had his phone on him). Helpfully (for biblical purists if no one else), it turns out that Sperm Whales also inhabit the Mediterranean. So it’s entirely possible that the story is indeed true, and that Jonah was swallowed by a whale. Of course, how long that lasted for is another matter but, to some extent, that’s just superfluous detail (from Jonah’s point of view at least).

 

[Eric_Hyom]

As an evolutionary christian as well and deep in science it just doesnt make sense to me.

I take the first sentence in the Bible to be an absolute truth, “In the beginning God created the heaven and the Earth”.

If God can create the universe; then every other miracle is almost insignificant by comparison. If God can create life from no life; he should also have the ability to keep Jonah alive in a whale for three days, this seems like child’s play.

So how can an object with no soul whatsoever could even talk?

We make radio’s, what can God do?

 

[Nickos]

Radios as far as i know dont talk themselves. It requires a narrator . Unless you sre a nasa engineer using a high tech radio we dont know yet.

 

[BartholomewB]

I never knew that about sperm whales. Either that they’re sometimes found in the Mediterranean, or that someone can be swallowed by one and survive. Thank you for that, Father.

Please correct me if I’m wrong, but I think the Catholic answer to @Nickos’ question about the literal or allegorical truth of Jonah and the whale would be the same as in the case of the Garden of Eden, namely that we’re free to read it either way. Is that correct?

 

[Nickos]

I do believe Adam and Eve existed. They were the couple out of thousands homosapiens who evloved who God called them so to make a covenant with his beloved creation.

 

[Anesti33]

I would ask why does it matter whether the story in Jonah actually happened? Would it be any less true or more true? Are you intent on finding the bones of Jonah one day, or the fish who swallowed him, or the ruins of Nineveh (well I guess we have those…)

The narratives in Sacred Scripture are true. Scripture uses many literary styles to teach us Biblical truths, and modern man mistakenly applies the standards of news reporting, history textbooks, and science journals to Sacred Scripture. This is where the error lies, not in Scripture, but in our hermeneutics and questioning and application of “true/false” to the truth in the Bible.

 

[Nickos]

I dont get it . How we should read it then? Jesus was a historical person. If we whould have read the whole bible as naratives with certain messages and not beign at all literall then Christianity wouldnt even be a thing. So i asked it as to make a distinction on how i should read it.

 

[Anesti33]

Do you know the geneaology sections of Sacred Scripture where Matthew and Luke trace Jesus’ birth back through history? That’s how we establish Him as a real historical person, because the Gospel writers clearly do so, referring not only to His ancestry but to real governors and rulers and events that happened during His life. So yes, we are bound to accept Jesus as real and historical, because the Gospel writers intended it.

 

[Eric_Hyom]

Radios as far as i know dont talk themselves. It requires a narrator . Unless you sre a nasa engineer using a high tech radio we dont know yet.

The radio was just a crude example of what man can do. If God wanted a talking bush, then the bush would talk.

I would expect God to have more power than all Nasa engineers put together.

 

[Nickos]

I didnt say otherwise. For me the fact that there are extrabiblical evidence is the only thing that made me a christian from atheist. If there werent it woukd have been hard to believe that even if the other person’s where historical. But thank God they were other evidence as well.

 

[Anesti33]

Judaism, like Christianity, is a historical religion, based on real events in history. We can point to milestones such as the Exodus and King David and the Second Temple as proof that Biblical narratives are true. But not every story told by Sacred Scripture has to be a 100% factual reporting of the historical data as it occurred. Not even the historical events. The Bible uses literary devices to convey truths, so we need to pay more attention to the devices and truths in the Book of Jonah rather than the feasibility of surviving 3 days in the belly of a fish.

 

[OurLadyofSorrows]

So it’s entirely possible that the story is indeed true, and that Jonah was swallowed by a whale. Of course, how long that lasted for is another matter but, to some extent, that’s just superfluous detail (from Jonah’s point of view at least).

The big fish decided to spit Jonah out in the end,
Or God decided Jonah had enough stomach acid marinating and would now obediently be that prophet God knew he could be.

 

[Hume]

Hi all. Im an eastern orthodox christian and new to this forum. So i have trouble reading Jonah and similar other passages from the Old Testament. As an evolutionary christian as well and deep in science it just doesnt make sense to me. So is that verse and similar others to be taken as literal or not? Thanks and God bless

Probably not.

The story exists to tell a truth, but the truth is in the message - not in the actual events.

 

[Anesti33]

Of course it is true. Nobody here contests that the story of Jonah is not true. But it does not have to be 100% factual, exact minute detailed, historical account of a real person at a particular point in time, because that’s not how Sacred Scripture works.

 

[OurLadyofSorrows]

I dont get it . How we should read it then? Jesus was a historical person. If we whould have read the whole bible as naratives with certain messages and not beign at all literall then Christianity wouldnt even be a thing. So i asked it as to make a distinction on how i should read it.

There is so much to get out of Scripture of the Old Testament. First thing to remember is its primary audience. one contemporary to the times the book, passage, chapter was written. Much of that gets lost in time and translation.
We ask why would the author give a ship its own identity,
Why would a recalcitrant prophet run away from God.
Can we, any of us really run away from God? Watch out for those big whales