Joseph Smith and adultery

[Answersplease]

Evanfaust comments…
You already convinced yourself that Joseph Smith committed adultery. Perhaps you should open your mind to investigate the situation a little. Study his character, his personality and his accomplishments, then you tell me if he was capable of committing adultery.
…

The most conservative estimates indicate that Joseph entered into plural marriages with 29–33 women, 7 of whom were under the age of 18. The youngest was Helen Mar Kimball, daughter of LDS apostle Heber C. Kimball, who was 14. The rest were 16 (two) or 17 (three). One wife (Maria Winchester) about which virtually nothing is known, was either 14 or 15.
…

Joseph married these women, which is not considered adultery! Would you call Abraham, Isaac, Jacob and others adulterers?

The adultery part isn’t that he married 14 year olds, or even that he had 33 wives. The adultery part is that 10 of these women were already married to other men. The documentation is all in the LDS marriage archives. Abrahan, Isaac, Jacob and the others had multiple wives, but never married another man;s wife. David committed adultery with Bathsheba and he was severly punished by God.

Here is an interesting tidbit:

Anyone who practiced plural marriage before the date that D&C 132 was written (12 July 1843) was guilty of adultery.

evanfaust;6248928:

Evanfaust comments…
I found an article that elaborates on Joseph’s sealing of women already married. Most of the evidence points out that these were eternal sealing and not just marriage with the intent of sexual relations.

en.fairmormon.org/Joseph_Smith_and_polyandry/Book_chapter

In the case of David and Bathsheba I must point out that the punishment by God was not only because of the adultery, but also for murder.
well, it elaborates on it, and confirms that Joseph Smith had sex with 10 married women. Although it echos Joseph Smith’s claims that this was for sealing them and making their family gods, it also validates the charge that Joseph Smith was as serial adulterer. Why do you believe that God would suspend the 6th commandment, strictly for the benefit of Joseph Smith and his close followerers? Don’t you understand how much this undermines his claims of being a true Prophet?

 

[Answersplease]

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_The_Church_of_Jesus_Christ_of_Latter-day_Saints#cite_ref-15

Sarah Pratt, first wife of Mormon Apostle Orson Pratt, in an outspoken critique of Mormon polygamy said that

“ [polygamy] completely demoralizes good men and makes bad men correspondingly worse. As for the women—well, God help them! First wives it renders desperate, or else heart-broken, mean-spirited creatures.[16] ”

Pratt ended her marriage to husband Orson Pratt in 1868 because his “obsession with marrying younger women” (at age 57, Orson Pratt married a sixteen year old girl, his tenth wife, younger than his daughter Celestia[17]). Sarah Pratt lashed out at Orson in an 1877 interview,

“ Here was my husband, gray headed, taking to his bed young girls in mockery of marriage. Of course there could be no joy for him in such an intercourse except for the indulgence of his fanaticism and of something else, perhaps, which I hesitate to mention.[18] ”

The Tanners argue that early church leaders established the practice of polygamy in order to justify behavior that would otherwise be regarded as immoral.[19] The Ostlings criticize Joseph Smith for marrying at least 32 women during his lifetime, including several under the age of 16, a fact acknowledged by Mormon historian Todd Compton.[20][21] Compton also acknowledges that Smith entered into polyandrous marriages (that is, he married women who were already married to other men)[21] and that he warned some potential spouses of eternal damnation if they did not consent to be his wife,[22] and furthermore that, in at least two cases, he married orphan girls that had come to live at his home.[23]

[16] ^ Eskridge 2002, pp. 291
[17] ^ Van Wagoner 1986
[18] ^ Van Wagoner 1986, pp. 92
[19] ^ Tanner 1979, pp. 226–257
[20] ^ Ostling, Richard and Joan. Mormon America. pp. 60–63.
[21] ^ a b Compton 1997
[22] ^ Compton 1997, pp. 486–534, 457-472, 342-363
[23] ^ Compton 1997, pp. 457–485

 

[KathleenGee]

I came into studying Mormonism with alot of respect for its followers. But when I came to the polygamous life of Joseph Smith, I turned away. I read posts but the answers don’t seem to give me a clear picture of some of their beliefs either.

 

[bpbasilphx]

\You already convinced yourself that Joseph Smith committed adultery. Perhaps you should open your mind to investigate the situation a little. Study his character, his personality and his accomplishments, then you tell me if he was capable of committing adultery.\

**ANYONE is capable of adultery, because all of us–even your deceased Living Prophet Joseph Smith–are sinners.

I might point out that the doctrine of Papal Infallibility–and the various deceased Livng Prophets of the Mormon Church have claimed infallibility beyond this limited infallibility–does not mean the pope is incapable of sin.**

 

[Bob_Crowley]

Answersplease:
As far as I’m concerned, Joseph Smith was a con-man.

Anyone who follows a con-man is being conned.

 

[Answersplease]

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_The_Church_of_Jesus_Christ_of_Latter-day_Saints#cite_ref-15

Some Church leaders, after 1890 polygamy cessation, continue to condone marriages

Richard Abanes, Richard and Joan Ostling, and D. Michael Quinn note that after the 1890 Manifesto, church leaders authorized over 200 polygamous marriages and lied about the continuing practice.[27][28][29]

Joseph F. Smith acknowledged reports that church leaders didn’t fully adhere to the 1890 prohibition. After the Second Manifesto in 1904, anyone entering into a new plural marriage was excommunicated.[30]

[27] ^ Abanes 2003, pp. 336–342
[28] ^ Ostling, Richard and Joan. Mormon America. pp. 73–74.
[29] ^ Quinn, Michael (1997). The Mormon Hierarchy: Extensions of Power. Signature Books. pp. 182–183; 790–810. ISBN 1560850604.
[30] ^ Conference Report, April 1904, p. 97.

 

[KathleenGee]

They (LDS) change alot…big changes to how they believe today.

I think the LDS will become more standardize as each year goes by into mainline Christianity.

 

[Answersplease]

(color highlight added to the original text)

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Smith_Jr.#cite_ref-265

In April 1841, Smith secretly wed Louisa Beaman as a plural wife, and during the next two and a half years he may have married thirty additional women,[243] ten of whom were already married to other men.[244] and about a third of them teenagers, including two fourteen-year-old girls.[245] Meanwhile he publicly and repeatedly denied that he advocated polygamy.[246] Smith told his potential wives that marriage to him would ensure their spiritual exaltation.[247]
…

In 1843, Emma reluctantly allowed Smith to marry four women who had been living in the Smith household—two of whom Smith had already married without her knowledge.[261] Emma also participated with Smith in the first “sealing” ceremony, intended to bind their marriage for eternity.[262] However, Emma soon regretted her decision to accept plural marriage and forced the other wives from the household,[263] nagging Smith to abandon the practice.[264] In response, Smith dictated a revelation[265] declaring that if Emma refused to accept Smith’s other wives, she would be “destroyed.”[266] When Smith’s brother Hyrum presented the revelation to Emma, she abused him.[267]

[243] ^ Compton (1997) (counting at least 33 total wives); Smith (1994, p. 14) (counting 42 wives); Brodie (1971, pp. 334–36) (counting 49 wives); Bushman (2005, pp. 437, 644) (accepting Compton’s count, excepting one wife); Quinn (1994, pp. 587–88) (counting 46 wives); Remini (2002, p. 153) (noting that the exact figure is still debated).
[244] ^ Foster (1981); Quinn (1994); Compton (1997); Bushman (2005, p. 437); Launius (1988); Van Wagoner (1989); Newell (1994).
[245] ^ Compton, 11; Remini,154; Brodie, 334-43.
[246] ^ Bushman (2005, p. 491).
[247] ^ Bushman (2005, p. 439).
[261] ^ Brodie (1971, p. 339); Bushman (2005, p. 494); Remini (2002, pp. 152–53).
[262] ^ Quinn (1994, p. 638) (first Mormon sealing); Bushman (2005, p. 494).
[263] ^ Brodie (1971, p. 339).
[264] ^ Brodie (1971, p. 340).
[265] ^ Bushman (2005, pp. 495-96).
[266] ^ Brodie (1971, p. 340–341); Roberts (1909, pp. 505–06) (“A commandment I give unto mine handmaid, Emma Smith,…[that she] receive all those [wives] that have been given unto my servant Joseph… But if [Emma] will not abide this commandment she shall be destroyed, saith the Lord; for I am the Lord thy God, and will destroy her if she abide not in my law.”)
[267] ^ Bushman (2005, p. 496).

 

[Answersplease]

The idea of a great apostasy certainly is/was a big selling point when it comes to Mormonism.

Claim all other forms of Christianity are corrupt and fallen away. Then claim that God came to you to in order to re-establish it.

tell me he was a false prophet and not to be believed.

“Ye shall know them by their fruits”.

Joseph Smith’s fruits were kind of rotten if you take the time to do some valid and objective research.

To put it mildly, when you do the valid and objective research, (be thorough) you will find that Joseph Smith and Brigham Young were horn dogs. Joseph Smith would be seen as a pedophile in our day and age.

 

[Xavierlives]

They (LDS) change alot…big changes to how they believe today.

I think the LDS will become more standardize as each year goes by into mainline Christianity.

Well you have to be Christian to be in mainstream Christianity.

 

[Answersplease]

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Origin_of_Latter_Day_Saint_polygamy

During Smith’s life he publicly preached and wrote against the doctrine of plural marriage;[60] however, historians have cited that dozens of plural marriages were performed by Smith before his death in 1844,[61][62] and author Jon Krakauer points out in Under the Banner of Heaven that, “several were still pubescent girls, such as fourteen-year-old Helen Mar Kimball.”[63] Kimball, Smith’s 28th wife,[64] wrote about her introduction and experience with celestial marriage in 1843–44,[61]

“ [My father] asked me if I would be sealed to Joseph … [Smith explained] the principle of Celestial marriage … After which he said to me, ‘If you will take this step, it will ensure your eternal salvation & exaltation and that of your father’s household & all of your kindred.‘] This promise was so great that I willingly gave myself to purchase so glorious a reward. … [After the marriage] I felt quite sore over it … and thought myself an abused child, and that it was pardonable if I did murmur. ”

Written accounts of Smith’s liaisons are recorded as early as 1831, including Smith’s well-known relationship with Fanny Alger (age 16),[65][66] as well as Jon Krakauer’s account of Smith’s relationship with Marinda Nancy Johnson (age 16) in 1831,[67]

“ In the summer of 1831 the Johnson family took Joseph and Emma Smith into their home as boarders, and soon thereafter the prophet purportedly bedded young Marinda. Unfortunately, the liaison did not go unnoticed, and a gang of indignant Ohioans—including a number of Mormons—resolved to castrate Joseph so that he would be disinclined to commit such acts of depravity in the future. ”

 

[Answersplease]

(Color red and underlining added to highlight the original texts.)

“What a thing it is for a man to be accused of committing adultery, and having seven wives, when I can only find one. I am the same man, and as innocent as I was fourteen years ago; and I can prove them all perjurers. I labored with these apostates myself until I was out of all manner of patience.” - Joseph Smith

“Address of the Prophet—His Testimony Against the Dissenters at Nauvoo”, delivered Sunday, May 26, 1844. Printed in History of the Church, vol. 6, p. 408-412. Available at UTLM.org. The quote is significant when one considers that Smith secretly had thirty wives at the time of the address (cf. A partial listing with dates at FamilySearch.org).

Sidney Rigdon in the 18 june 1845 ‘Messenger and Advocate’ reported that Parley P. Pratt, in speaking of the means by which church leaders should sustain Smith, advised that ‘we must lie to protect brother Joseph, it is our duty to do so.’

not only were church leaders willing to violate the law to promote polygamy, they did not hesitate to blacken the character of individuals who threatened to expose the secret practice of plural marriage.
…

-Richard van Wagoner, Mormon Polygamy: A History, pp. 38-39

Here is a link to the following quote by “why me”:

forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=6183038&postcount=18

why me:

First, it is not suprising that in public JS would deny polygamy. I would have done so too

since the hatred for mormons was very real. Polygamy would have created an intolerable position for the early mormons if the cat was let out of the bag. And so, I can see denying polygamy in public. No problem.

 

[why_me]

This thread is like something that returned from the dead. My gosh the last post before being resurrected again by answers was in February. Lets let sleeping dogs sleep. However, if everyone wishes to resurrect this discussion, so be it…

 

[Answersplease]

Answersplease:

Thanks for the off topic post, but I am concerned about The Truth.

You have made you position clear as I showed earlier.

 

[lax16]

This thread is like something that returned from the dead. My gosh the last post before being resurrected again by answers was in February. Lets let sleeping dogs sleep. However, if everyone wishes to resurrect this discussion, so be it…

whyme - What is the LDS view concerning JS’ denial of his involvement in polygamy?

 

[Kdesiel]

I can remember when I was LDS and on my way home from Church I noticed something was troubling my wife. When we returned home and laid the kids down for a nap I asked her what was troubling her.
She said they had a lesson concerning Celestial Marriage while in the middle of the lesson Plural Marriage came up. My wife’s Father is Catholic and her Mother was Mormon so growing up there were certain aspects of the religion lets just say she was unaware of.
Being Born into an LDS family I had known about Plural Marriage and that the Church did away with it in 1896. That was about the extent of my knowledge.
So we decided to read the D&C section 132. I had never really studied this section, I never had a desire to really. Even while on my Mission I had always glossed over the subject.
Reading this section with my wife, she began to weep. She didn’t understand how this could be. I too had troubles and decided to look into the History of Plural Marriage for myself.
I was a Returned Missionary, Sealed to my wife in the Temple, I was active in the Elders Quorum Presidency at the time I didn’t want to find anything Negative.
What I found changed my entire view point, I began to ask questions, these questions were never fully answered. The more questions I asked, the more went unresolved no one with in the Church wanted me to dwell on it. They basically told me to have Faith that J.Smith was a Prophet and would bear their Testimony regarding him.

In the end we left the LDS religion. If we look to the example of Splinter Groups of the LDS church today you see a window of things in the past. Human behavior doesn’t change. Look at the example of what goes on in these Radical Cults, how the women are treated, the child abuse and so on. It gives you a glimpse of what life must of been like in the early Mormon Church. It is Stark to say the least. It is troubling.
Now if the Law in the United States condemning Plural Marriage were to be repealed tomorrow, Would the LDS church Today issue “Revelation” reinstating the practice?

If you’re a Mormon woman today and your Church reinstated Plural Marriage and issued your Husband a call to practice Plural Marriage would you support him in his calling? Would you be a willing participant? What if his second wife was a cousin or a younger sister? A woman much younger? How would you cope?
These are honest questions because these are viable scenario’s in the Mormon Religion today. What if?

 

[barnesms]

Joseph was only married to a single woman. However, he was sealed to many. There is no evidence that he had conjugal relationships with any wife but Emma, his first wife and mother of all his children. There were several women that did claim to have had children by Joseph Smith, but through current DNA analysis all of their allegations proved false.

No only were women sealed to Joseph, but also men. During this period familial relationships were highly valued. Being sealed was the equivalent of eternal adoption or being sealed eternally together a family whether that be husband-wife or parent-child.

There is at least one record that I recall of Joseph, in passing conversation with at least another individual, that would lead one to think that Joseph Smith did have at least a sexual relationship with one of these wives that were sealed to him.

Plural marriage was practiced by 5% to 20% of the Mormon membership. No one could simply take a second wife; it had to assigned to to the individual. They had to be deemed righteous and be capable of caring for more than one wife. After the life of Joseph Smith you will certainly find an expansion of of this belief. Within those families where many wives were found you will find many older women sealed to a man. It is obvious that these were platonic relationships used to provide for those who had their husbands killed either by religious persecution or by the trek west from Nauvoo to the Salt Lake Valley.

To be frank, Smith did not openly discuss or admit to plural wives because of his fear of the resulting persecution. I think that in his mind he skated too close to lying when asked questions. It has been many years since I studied this closely, but I recall how the questions were worded in such a way that they left Smith an “out”; they did not perfectly, accurately describe what Smith believed plural marriage was.

The LDS Church continues to believe that plural marriage during this period was a true reflection of plural marriage practiced in the Old Testament. Were those men true prophets or were they false?

Lying is a unacceptable and is a sin. However, it is obvious that many of our greatest Christians were guilty of this. I think of Peter who lied three times, denying the Christ each time. How does that lie compare to Joseph’s dodging the truth of plural marriage? I suspect that upon reflection, both deeply regretted and repented of such an action and that neither man is condemned in the sight of God for their frailties, but forgiven.

 

[SirThomasMore]

Joseph was only married to a single woman. However, he was sealed to many.

A sealing is a marriage. When I was sealed to my wife, we had no civil marriage. The sealing was our marriage. So, Joseph was married to lots of women, including young girls and married women

There is no evidence that he had conjugal relationships with any wife but Emma,

Except the time he was caught with Fanny

To be frank, Smith did not openly discuss or admit to plural wives because of his fear of the resulting persecution. I think that in his mind he skated too close to lying when asked questions. It has been many years since I studied this closely, but I recall how the questions were worded in such a way that they left Smith an “out”; they did not perfectly, accurately describe what Smith believed plural marriage was.

So he had a revelation from God and then was afraid? What kind of faith does that show? IF it was from God, he should have been very open…instead, he was a liar.

The LDS Church continues to believe that plural marriage during this period was a true reflection of plural marriage practiced in the Old Testament. Were those men true prophets or were they false?

Another red herring. What happened thousands of years ago in the middle east cannot be compared to what happened in this country in the 1800s. Jesus was clear- one wife

Lying is a unacceptable and is a sin. However, it is obvious that many of our greatest Christians were guilty of this.

Ah…so now it is ok to lie because others have done it? Nice.

I think of Peter who lied three times, denying the Christ each time. How does that lie compare to Joseph’s dodging the truth of plural marriage?

Let’s see…Peter denied Christ as Christ said he would and he lied about knowing Jesus due to the fact that Jesus had just been captured and was being tortured. Joseph lied about his sexual relationships. Seems to me you would be better off comparing Joseph to Bill Clienton that to Christ.

I suspect that upon reflection, both deeply regretted and repented of such an action and that neither man is condemned in the sight of God for their frailties, but forgiven

We know Peter repented. We have no idea whatsoever that Joseph repented. I doubt seriously Joseph repented for lying about something he was doing that Jesus was already against…

 

[Kdesiel]

Old Testament standards and New Testaments standards on marriage are quite different. Christ was very clear on One woman for a wife. A new and High Law was to be followed, plural marriage was not part of it.

If Plural marriage were a Revelation from God why abandon it when trouble concerning the practice arose?
If God gave you or I a commandment would he be satisfied if we shied away from it because we thought it too difficult or troublesome?
Reminds me of Jonah, God told him to preach the word of God. To people who were enemies of his nation no less. When he tried to shy away well… we all know the story.
How does that compare to Plural Marriage Both were express commands from God why then did the Church turn away from it?

Like I stated before I think and its my opinion we can watch the actions, or judge the fruit if you will of Polygamous sects currently practicing in the U.S. today and see a reflection of the LDS Society while plural marriage was in effect in the early LDS Church.

Why dodge the issue if it were truly from God? Why hide it in the background for fear of further ridicule? With God with us who can stand against us?

I will agree leaders from all Christian denomonations have lied or conealed truth to further an agenda or protect themselves or even their Organizations from harm, but a lie is a lie no matter what the intentsions are/were it by no way is a viable excuse.

Can a Prophet be a Prophet and lie? Would the Lord allow a Prophet to lead his church, instruct them in the Gospel of Light and Truth unto Salvation, while at the same time allowing him to lie to majority of the congregation on the finer points of said Gospel?

Peter did repent of his denying of the Lord. I don’t know if Joseph did? Maybe he did, maybe he didn’t. I am in no way quailified to judge or hold judgement on him or his actions.
These are observations and some of the key issues which brought me out of the LDS faith.

 

[lax16]

Joseph was only married to a single woman. However, he was sealed to many. There is no evidence that he had conjugal relationships with any wife but Emma, his first wife and mother of all his children. There were several women that did claim to have had children by Joseph Smith, but through current DNA analysis all of their allegations proved false.

Joseph Smith was married/sealed to his many wives for what reason?

No only were women sealed to Joseph, but also men. During this period familial relationships were highly valued. Being sealed was the equivalent of eternal adoption or being sealed eternally together a family whether that be husband-wife or parent-child.

Where in the Old Testament were people sealed to one another?

There is at least one record that I recall of Joseph, in passing conversation with at least another individual, that would lead one to think that Joseph Smith did have at least a sexual relationship with one of these wives that were sealed to him.

Was this other individual Oliver Cowdery, founder/prophet/witness?

Plural marriage was practiced by 5% to 20% of the Mormon membership. No one could simply take a second wife; it had to assigned to to the individual. They had to be deemed righteous and be capable of caring for more than one wife. After the life of Joseph Smith you will certainly find an expansion of of this belief. Within those families where many wives were found you will find many older women sealed to a man. It is obvious that these were platonic relationships used to provide for those who had their husbands killed either by religious persecution or by the trek west from Nauvoo to the Salt Lake Valley.

I don’t know if that is true. Please provide records of the sealings so that we can see the ages of the women.

To be frank, Smith did not openly discuss or admit to plural wives because of his fear of the resulting persecution. I think that in his mind he skated too close to lying when asked questions. It has been many years since I studied this closely, but I recall how the questions were worded in such a way that they left Smith an “out”; they did not perfectly, accurately describe what Smith believed plural marriage was.

The LDS Church continues to believe that plural marriage during this period was a true reflection of plural marriage practiced in the Old Testament. Were those men true prophets or were they false?

Please provide scripture references from the OT showing plural marriages that were sealings. We are followers of the New Testament, are we not?

Lying is a unacceptable and is a sin. However, it is obvious that many of our greatest Christians were guilty of this. I think of Peter who lied three times, denying the Christ each time. How does that lie compare to Joseph’s dodging the truth of plural marriage? I suspect that upon reflection, both deeply regretted and repented of such an action and that neither man is condemned in the sight of God for their frailties, but forgiven.

Other than Peter, what great Christians were guilty of lying?