Joseph Smith's Bank

[truthsave]

For the ones who didn’t know. This is from mormon’s prophet Joseph Smith.

**Topics surrounding the Kirtland Bank created by Joseph Smith. **

The Kirtland Bank was created in the State of Ohio by Joseph Smith and Sidney Rigdon. Joseph was the Cashier and Sidney was the President. Unable to obtain a Banking Charter, Joseph and Sidney created an “Anti-Bank” Bank. Depositors were lured in because Joseph Smith told his followers that as a Prophet of God, the Bank would never fail.

Joseph Smith’s delusions left them empty-handed and the bank declared bankruptcy. Many faithful Mormons lost their life savings and investments - and their faith. Joseph Smith and Sidney Rigdon fled Kirtland under the cover of darkness in January of 1838 to escape bank depositors who were given worthless bank notes in exchange for gold and silver deposits.

Warren Parrish, who had been an officer in the bank and had apostatized from the Church, made this statement: “I have listened to him * with feelings of no ordinary kind, when he declared that the AUDIBLE VOICE OF GOD, INSTRUCTED HIM TO ESTABLISH A BANKING-ANTI BANKING INSTITUTION, who like Aaron’s rod SHALL SWALLOW UP ALL OTHER BANKS (the Bank of Monroe excepted,) and grow and flourish and spread from the rivers to the ends of the earth, and survive when all others should be laid in ruins.” (Painesville Republican, February 22, 1838, as quoted in Conflict at Kirtland, page 297)

*Wilford Woodruff, who remained true to the Church and became the fourth President, confirmed the fact that Joseph Smith claimed to have a revelation concerning the bank. Under the date of January 6, 1837, he recorded the following in his journal: “I also herd [sic] President Joseph Smith, jr., declare in the presence of F. Williams, D. Whitmer, S. Smith, W. Parrish, and others in the Deposit office that HE HAD RECEIVED THAT MORNING THE WORD OF THE LORD UPON THE SUBJECT OF THE KIRTLAND SAFETY SOCIETY. He was alone in a room by himself and he had not only [heard] the voice of the Spirit upon the Subject but even an AUDIBLE VOICE. He did not tell us at that time what the Lord said upon the subject but remarked that if we would give heed to the commandments the Lord had given this morning all would be well.” *

How it ended up?

After one month he and Sidney Rigdon resigned as officers but the bank failed. This affected Joseph’s status.

People who were convinced that Joseph had intended a swindle at the outset attacked him verbally and threatened him physically. This disruption forced Joseph to leave the city frequently…

In April 1837 Joseph went into hiding without seeing Emma before he left.

Half of the original twelve apostles, and more than half of the total church membership, left the church because of the Kirtland failure.

Upon being charged with bank fraud, Smith and Rigdon were forced to flee Kirtland on horseback at night to escape mobs who wanted to avenge their financial losses.*

 

[TexanKnight]

Yet they still believe that con man and coward was a prophet

May they see the truth. It is my fervent prayer

 

[lax16]

For the ones who didn’t know. This is from mormon’s prophet Joseph Smith.

**Topics surrounding the Kirtland Bank created by Joseph Smith. **

The Kirtland Bank was created in the State of Ohio by Joseph Smith and Sidney Rigdon. Joseph was the Cashier and Sidney was the President. Unable to obtain a Banking Charter, Joseph and Sidney created an “Anti-Bank” Bank. Depositors were lured in because Joseph Smith told his followers that as a Prophet of God, the Bank would never fail.

Joseph Smith’s delusions left them empty-handed and the bank declared bankruptcy. Many faithful Mormons lost their life savings and investments - and their faith. Joseph Smith and Sidney Rigdon fled Kirtland under the cover of darkness in January of 1838 to escape bank depositors who were given worthless bank notes in exchange for gold and silver deposits.

Warren Parrish, who had been an officer in the bank and had apostatized from the Church, made this statement: “I have listened to him * with feelings of no ordinary kind, when he declared that the AUDIBLE VOICE OF GOD, INSTRUCTED HIM TO ESTABLISH A BANKING-ANTI BANKING INSTITUTION, who like Aaron’s rod SHALL SWALLOW UP ALL OTHER BANKS (the Bank of Monroe excepted,) and grow and flourish and spread from the rivers to the ends of the earth, and survive when all others should be laid in ruins.” (Painesville Republican, February 22, 1838, as quoted in Conflict at Kirtland, page 297)

*Wilford Woodruff, who remained true to the Church and became the fourth President, confirmed the fact that Joseph Smith claimed to have a revelation concerning the bank. Under the date of January 6, 1837, he recorded the following in his journal: “I also herd [sic] President Joseph Smith, jr., declare in the presence of F. Williams, D. Whitmer, S. Smith, W. Parrish, and others in the Deposit office that HE HAD RECEIVED THAT MORNING THE WORD OF THE LORD UPON THE SUBJECT OF THE KIRTLAND SAFETY SOCIETY. He was alone in a room by himself and he had not only [heard] the voice of the Spirit upon the Subject but even an AUDIBLE VOICE. He did not tell us at that time what the Lord said upon the subject but remarked that if we would give heed to the commandments the Lord had given this morning all would be well.” **

How it ended up?

After one month he and Sidney Rigdon resigned as officers but the bank failed. This affected Joseph’s status.

People who were convinced that Joseph had intended a swindle at the outset attacked him verbally and threatened him physically. This disruption forced Joseph to leave the city frequently…

In April 1837 Joseph went into hiding without seeing Emma before he left.

Half of the original twelve apostles, and more than half of the total church membership, left the church because of the Kirtland failure.

Upon being charged with bank fraud, Smith and Rigdon were forced to flee Kirtland on horseback at night to escape mobs who wanted to avenge their financial losses.

Hi TexanKnight -

How long did the bank survive and what were the funds used for?

Funny how the LDS claim JS was persecuted for no reason at all.

 

[lax16]

oops - truthsave I meant these questions for you too.

 

[TexanKnight]

the bank society was organized in 1836 and was finished by 1837. There was never enough money to cover the notes. It was a scam. When people started wanting their money, Joseph fled. It is what he always did. He was fined for having an illegal bank and was named as a defendant is 17 lawsuits.

Whenever there was trouble, Joseph ran away. He would have run away in nauvoo until shamed by the Mormons who were likely tired of him running.

 

[lax16]

the bank society was organized in 1836 and was finished by 1837. There was never enough money to cover the notes. It was a scam. When people started wanting their money, Joseph fled. It is what he always did. He was fined for having an illegal bank and was named as a defendant is 17 lawsuits.

Whenever there was trouble, Joseph ran away. He would have run away in nauvoo until shamed by the Mormons who were likely tired of him running.

Does anyone know where the money went - did he use it for living expenses, running his church…?

He ran away and yet he is considered a martyr, funny isn’t it?

 

[truthsave]

Does anyone know where the money went - did he use it for living expenses, running his church…?

He ran away and yet he is considered a martyr, funny isn’t it?

Actually before dying (as a martyr as mormons say) he shot two or three people and they still consider him a martyr…really a martyr way of dying. And he said (in a deeply bad taste using Isaiah prophetizing our Saviour sacrifice) he was going to the sacrifice as a lamb to the butcher. A killer lamb?

 

[TexanKnight]

Does anyone know where the money went - did he use it for living expenses, running his church…?

He ran away and yet he is considered a martyr, funny isn’t it?

Not sure anyone knows for sure. I think the temple was being built at that time, so maybe some of it went there.

 

[twopekinguys]

Actually before dying (as a martyr as mormons say) he shot two or three people and they still consider him a martyr…really a martyr way of dying. And he said (in a deeply bad taste using Isaiah prophetizing our Saviour sacrifice) he was going to the sacrifice as a lamb to the butcher. A killer lamb?

You’re right. In the history of the church (I think vol 6), it describes what happened, and how he shot at least 2 people, one of whom died later.

We actually had a mormon poster on here a while back (she’s no longer with us) who tried to state he shot, yes, but not at any vital organs. But yet he shot at their face…hmmm vital organ?

Kind of an old thread, but it was all discussed here:

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=344846

 

[nordskoven]

So was Joseph Smith and others killed in Nauvoo by people, some ex-Mormons, who lost money in this Kirtland, Ohio bank swindle?

 

[twopekinguys]

So was Joseph Smith and others killed in Nauvoo by people, some ex-Mormons, who lost money in this Kirtland, Ohio bank swindle?

It’s possible. No one can say with any certainty.

Many, if not all of our mormon posters would say that there were no mormons, or even ex mormons in the crowd, but I’m sure they didn’t have a “sign up” sheet for who was going to participate…

But all in all, I think it is a definite possibility.

 

[Jerusha]

they didn’t have a “sign up” sheet for who was going to participate…

Except for the list of who was in the local militia. And that, believe it or not, is available on the internet.

 

[Janderich]

Originally Posted by truthsave
Actually before dying (as a martyr as mormons say) he shot two or three people and they still consider him a martyr…really a martyr way of dying. And he said (in a deeply bad taste using Isaiah prophetizing our Saviour sacrifice) he was going to the sacrifice as a lamb to the butcher. A killer lamb?

Here is a discription of the account. I’m not going to argue whether he was a martyr or not the circumstances are sufficiently sad either way and the story speaks for itself.

Joseph had been placed in jail for charges of treason. Joseph, his brother Hyrum, and two friends remained with him. The guard in gesture of kindness had moved Joseph and his associates to an upstairs bedroom.

At 4:00 P.M. the guard at the jail was changed. Frank Worrell, who had threatened Joseph Smith earlier that morning, was then in charge. A few minutes after five, a mob of about one hundred men with blackened faces arrived in town and headed for the jail. The prisoners heard a scuffle downstairs followed by a shout for surrender and three or four shots.

The mob encircled the building, and some of them rushed by the guard up the flight of stairs, burst open the door, and began the work of death, while others fired in through the open windows.

In the meantime Joseph, Hyrum, and Elder Taylor had their coats off. Joseph sprang to his coat for his six-shooter, Hyrum for his single barrel, [both smuggled in by a friend] Taylor for Markham’s large hickory cane, and Dr. Richards for Taylor’s cane. All sprang against the door, the balls whistled up the stairway, and in an instant one came through the door. Joseph Smith, John Taylor and Dr. Richards sprang to the left of the door, and tried to knock aside the guns of the ruffians.

Hyrum was retreating back in front of the door and snapped his pistol, when a ball struck him in the left side of his nose, and he fell on his back on the floor saying, “I am a dead man!” As he fell on the floor another ball from the outside entered his left side, and passed through his body with such force that it completely broke to pieces the watch he wore in his vest pocket, and at the same instant another ball from the door grazed his breast, and entered his head by the throat; subsequently a fourth ball entered his left leg. [These shots killed Hyrum]. A shower of balls was pouring through all parts of the room, many of which lodged in the ceiling just above the head of Hyrum.

Joseph, leaning over Hyrum exclaimed, “Oh dear, brother Hyrum!” John Taylor said the look of
sorrow he saw on Joseph’s face was forever imprinted on his mind. Joseph then stepped to the door, reached around the door casing, and discharged his six-shooter into the crowded hall. Only three of the six chambers fired, wounding three assailants.

John Taylor was hit in the thigh and fell against the windowsill, breaking his watch. Crawling toward the bed, he was struck again in the hip. …[Joseph] sprang to the window. With one leg over the sill, he raised his arms in the Masonic sign of distress. A ball from the doorway struck his hip, and a shot from the outside entered his chest. Another hit under the heart and a fourth his collarbone. He fell outward crying, “O Lord my God!” Landing on his left side, he struggled to sit up against the curb of a well and died within seconds. Richards raised his head above the sill far enough to see that Joseph was dead and then turned to help John Taylor. Taylor’s watch had stopped at sixteen minutes past five.

Compiled from three accounts:
“The Martyrdom” – Church History in the Fulness of Times Student Manual (Church Educational System Manual, 2003), 273–85

History of the Church Vol 6: 617-619

Joseph Smith: Rough Stone Rolling p. 648-649

 

[TexanKnight]

Here is a discription of the account. I’m not going to argue whether he was a martyr or not the circumstances are sufficiently sad either way and the story speaks for itself.

Joseph had been placed in jail for charges of treason. Joseph, his brother Hyrum, and two friends remained with him. The guard in gesture of kindness had moved Joseph and his associates to an upstairs bedroom.

At 4:00 P.M. the guard at the jail was changed. Frank Worrell, who had threatened Joseph Smith earlier that morning, was then in charge. A few minutes after five, a mob of about one hundred men with blackened faces arrived in town and headed for the jail. The prisoners heard a scuffle downstairs followed by a shout for surrender and three or four shots.

The mob encircled the building, and some of them rushed by the guard up the flight of stairs, burst open the door, and began the work of death, while others fired in through the open windows.

In the meantime Joseph, Hyrum, and Elder Taylor had their coats off. Joseph sprang to his coat for his six-shooter, Hyrum for his single barrel, [both smuggled in by a friend] Taylor for Markham’s large hickory cane, and Dr. Richards for Taylor’s cane. All sprang against the door, the balls whistled up the stairway, and in an instant one came through the door. Joseph Smith, John Taylor and Dr. Richards sprang to the left of the door, and tried to knock aside the guns of the ruffians.

Hyrum was retreating back in front of the door and snapped his pistol, when a ball struck him in the left side of his nose, and he fell on his back on the floor saying, “I am a dead man!” As he fell on the floor another ball from the outside entered his left side, and passed through his body with such force that it completely broke to pieces the watch he wore in his vest pocket, and at the same instant another ball from the door grazed his breast, and entered his head by the throat; subsequently a fourth ball entered his left leg. [These shots killed Hyrum]. A shower of balls was pouring through all parts of the room, many of which lodged in the ceiling just above the head of Hyrum.

Joseph, leaning over Hyrum exclaimed, “Oh dear, brother Hyrum!” John Taylor said the look of
sorrow he saw on Joseph’s face was forever imprinted on his mind. Joseph then stepped to the door, reached around the door casing, and discharged his six-shooter into the crowded hall. Only three of the six chambers fired, wounding three assailants.

John Taylor was hit in the thigh and fell against the windowsill, breaking his watch. Crawling toward the bed, he was struck again in the hip. …[Joseph] sprang to the window. With one leg over the sill, he raised his arms in the Masonic sign of distress. A ball from the doorway struck his hip, and a shot from the outside entered his chest. Another hit under the heart and a fourth his collarbone. He fell outward crying, “O Lord my God!” Landing on his left side, he struggled to sit up against the curb of a well and died within seconds. Richards raised his head above the sill far enough to see that Joseph was dead and then turned to help John Taylor. Taylor’s watch had stopped at sixteen minutes past five.

Compiled from three accounts:
“The Martyrdom” – Church History in the Fulness of Times Student Manual (Church Educational System Manual, 2003), 273–85

History of the Church Vol 6: 617-619

Joseph Smith: Rough Stone Rolling p. 648-649

Yeah…rely on a Mormon writer to prove a Mormon point. Bottom line, he was in jail for breaking the law, he illegally had a gun while a prisoner that was illegally given to him. Then, as people came up the stairs, he fired blindly downstairs, not caring who hit or killed (very un-Christlike), then, when he could not fire anymore, he raced to the window to escape and was killed.

Not a martyr, not a prophet, just a criminal who was killed.

 

[lax16]

Here is a discription of the account. I’m not going to argue whether he was a martyr or not the circumstances are sufficiently sad either way and the story speaks for itself.

Joseph had been placed in jail for charges of treason. Joseph, his brother Hyrum, and two friends remained with him. The guard in gesture of kindness had moved Joseph and his associates to an upstairs bedroom.

At 4:00 P.M. the guard at the jail was changed. Frank Worrell, who had threatened Joseph Smith earlier that morning, was then in charge. A few minutes after five, a mob of about one hundred men with blackened faces arrived in town and headed for the jail. The prisoners heard a scuffle downstairs followed by a shout for surrender and three or four shots.

The mob encircled the building, and some of them rushed by the guard up the flight of stairs, burst open the door, and began the work of death, while others fired in through the open windows.

In the meantime Joseph, Hyrum, and Elder Taylor had their coats off. Joseph sprang to his coat for his six-shooter, Hyrum for his single barrel, [both smuggled in by a friend] Taylor for Markham’s large hickory cane, and Dr. Richards for Taylor’s cane. All sprang against the door, the balls whistled up the stairway, and in an instant one came through the door. Joseph Smith, John Taylor and Dr. Richards sprang to the left of the door, and tried to knock aside the guns of the ruffians.

Hyrum was retreating back in front of the door and snapped his pistol, when a ball struck him in the left side of his nose, and he fell on his back on the floor saying, “I am a dead man!” As he fell on the floor another ball from the outside entered his left side, and passed through his body with such force that it completely broke to pieces the watch he wore in his vest pocket, and at the same instant another ball from the door grazed his breast, and entered his head by the throat; subsequently a fourth ball entered his left leg. [These shots killed Hyrum]. A shower of balls was pouring through all parts of the room, many of which lodged in the ceiling just above the head of Hyrum.

Joseph, leaning over Hyrum exclaimed, “Oh dear, brother Hyrum!” John Taylor said the look of
sorrow he saw on Joseph’s face was forever imprinted on his mind. Joseph then stepped to the door, reached around the door casing, and discharged his six-shooter into the crowded hall. Only three of the six chambers fired, wounding three assailants.

John Taylor was hit in the thigh and fell against the windowsill, breaking his watch. Crawling toward the bed, he was struck again in the hip. …[Joseph] sprang to the window. With one leg over the sill, he raised his arms in the Masonic sign of distress. A ball from the doorway struck his hip, and a shot from the outside entered his chest. Another hit under the heart and a fourth his collarbone. He fell outward crying, “O Lord my God!” Landing on his left side, he struggled to sit up against the curb of a well and died within seconds. Richards raised his head above the sill far enough to see that Joseph was dead and then turned to help John Taylor. Taylor’s watch had stopped at sixteen minutes past five.

Compiled from three accounts:
“The Martyrdom” – Church History in the Fulness of Times Student Manual (Church Educational System Manual, 2003), 273–85

History of the Church Vol 6: 617-619

Joseph Smith: Rough Stone Rolling p. 648-649

Hi Janderich - What were the charges of treason that he was jailed for?

Have you ever heard of a martyr/prophet of God having a gun smuggled to him and then using it?

 

[PaulDupre]

Yeah…rely on a Mormon writer to prove a Mormon point. Bottom line, he was in jail for breaking the law, he illegally had a gun while a prisoner that was illegally given to him. Then, as people came up the stairs, he fired blindly downstairs, not caring who hit or killed (very un-Christlike), then, when he could not fire anymore, he raced to the window to escape and was killed.

Not a martyr, not a prophet, just a criminal who was killed.

No Christian would recognize as a martyr someone who died while killing people.

Paul (formerly LDS, now happily Catholic)

 

[Janderich]

Hi Janderich - What were the charges of treason that he was jailed for?

I believe the charges were related to the destruction of the Nauvoo Expositor press. An extremely anti-Mormon newspaper located in Nauvoo. This further incited extreme hatred for Joseph among a number of excommunicated members and others. After destruction of the press there was an article in the Warsaw Signal stating, "War and extermination is inevitable! Citizens ARISE, ONE and ALL!!!—Can you stand by, and suffer such INFERNAL DEVILS! to ROB men of their property and RIGHTS, without avenging them. We have no time for comment, every man will make his own. LET IT BE MADE WITH POWDER AND BALL!!! (Warsaw Signal, 11 June 1844.)

After Joseph’s death five individuals were tried for his and Hyrum’s murder but all were found not guilty. Those tried included Thomas C. Sharp who owned the Warsaw Signal. The jury consisted entirely non-Mormons.

Have you ever heard of a martyr/prophet of God having a gun smuggled to him and then using it?

Yes, Joseph Smith. There were no guns during biblical times.

 

[twopekinguys]

Here is a discription of the account. I’m not going to argue whether he was a martyr or not the circumstances are sufficiently sad either way and the story speaks for itself.

Joseph had been placed in jail for charges of treason. Joseph, his brother Hyrum, and two friends remained with him. The guard in gesture of kindness had moved Joseph and his associates to an upstairs bedroom.

At 4:00 P.M. the guard at the jail was changed. Frank Worrell, who had threatened Joseph Smith earlier that morning, was then in charge. A few minutes after five, a mob of about one hundred men with blackened faces arrived in town and headed for the jail. The prisoners heard a scuffle downstairs followed by a shout for surrender and three or four shots.

The mob encircled the building, and some of them rushed by the guard up the flight of stairs, burst open the door, and began the work of death, while others fired in through the open windows.

In the meantime Joseph, Hyrum, and Elder Taylor had their coats off. Joseph sprang to his coat for his six-shooter, Hyrum for his single barrel, [both smuggled in by a friend] Taylor for Markham’s large hickory cane, and Dr. Richards for Taylor’s cane. All sprang against the door, the balls whistled up the stairway, and in an instant one came through the door. Joseph Smith, John Taylor and Dr. Richards sprang to the left of the door, and tried to knock aside the guns of the ruffians.

Hyrum was retreating back in front of the door and snapped his pistol, when a ball struck him in the left side of his nose, and he fell on his back on the floor saying, “I am a dead man!” As he fell on the floor another ball from the outside entered his left side, and passed through his body with such force that it completely broke to pieces the watch he wore in his vest pocket, and at the same instant another ball from the door grazed his breast, and entered his head by the throat; subsequently a fourth ball entered his left leg. [These shots killed Hyrum]. A shower of balls was pouring through all parts of the room, many of which lodged in the ceiling just above the head of Hyrum.

Joseph, leaning over Hyrum exclaimed, “Oh dear, brother Hyrum!” John Taylor said the look of
sorrow he saw on Joseph’s face was forever imprinted on his mind. Joseph then stepped to the door, reached around the door casing, and discharged his six-shooter into the crowded hall. Only three of the six chambers fired, wounding three assailants.

John Taylor was hit in the thigh and fell against the windowsill, breaking his watch. Crawling toward the bed, he was struck again in the hip. …[Joseph] sprang to the window. With one leg over the sill, he raised his arms in the Masonic sign of distress. A ball from the doorway struck his hip, and a shot from the outside entered his chest. Another hit under the heart and a fourth his collarbone. He fell outward crying, “O Lord my God!” Landing on his left side, he struggled to sit up against the curb of a well and died within seconds. Richards raised his head above the sill far enough to see that Joseph was dead and then turned to help John Taylor. Taylor’s watch had stopped at sixteen minutes past five.

Compiled from three accounts:
“The Martyrdom” – Church History in the Fulness of Times Student Manual (Church Educational System Manual, 2003), 273–85

History of the Church Vol 6: 617-619

Joseph Smith: Rough Stone Rolling p. 648-649

Unfortunately, this set of quotes skips over the fact that an elder is recorded in the church history stating that at least one of the people Smith shot died of his wounds.

Don’t you see a problem with leaving out a key factor? I do.

 

[Jerusha]

After Joseph’s death five individuals were tried for his and Hyrum’s murder but all were found not guilty. Those tried included Thomas C. Sharp who owned the Warsaw Signal. The jury consisted entirely non-Mormons.

And they were unable to determine who, exactly, fired the shots which killed Joseph Smith. It is altogether possible that the five placed on trial only intended to take him to Missouri to stand trial there. Only twenty miles away.

 

[TexanKnight]

I believe the charges were related to the destruction of the Nauvoo Expositor press. An extremely anti-Mormon newspaper located in Nauvoo.

So, Joseph felt it was ok to violate the Constitution because he believed the press was anti-LDS. Not very Prophet-sounding to me…

This further incited extreme hatred for Joseph among a number of excommunicated members and others.

Yes, including people he stole wives from, conned out of money and hurt

After destruction of the press there was an article in the Warsaw Signal stating, "War and extermination is inevitable! Citizens ARISE, ONE and ALL!!!—Can you stand by, and suffer such INFERNAL DEVILS! to ROB men of their property and RIGHTS, without avenging them. We have no time for comment, every man will make his own. LET IT BE MADE WITH POWDER AND BALL!!! (Warsaw Signal, 11 June 1844.)

Yes, because Joseph mobilized his army for which he was a general

After Joseph’s death five individuals were tried for his and Hyrum’s murder but all were found not guilty. Those tried included Thomas C. Sharp who owned the Warsaw Signal. The jury consisted entirely non-Mormons.

And Mormons chose not to participate. Apparently, the deaths were not important enough

Yes, Joseph Smith. There were no guns during biblical times.

Jesus could have defended himself had he wanted. He chose to be a lamb and chastised Peter who used a sword. Joseph fired indiscriminately at men not caring who he killed or wounded.