Joseph Smith's Seer Stone Photos Released

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lax16 said:
The Internet is causing a lot of trouble because many Mormons are finding out the truth about Joseph Smith. If they showcase the seer stone like a historic relic, they can try to take the attention away from the fact that he also was a treasure seeker.
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I wonder how many leave the Church of Latter Day Saints every year because of what they find out about Joseph Smith or the church on the internet.
 
7_Sorrows said:
I wonder how many leave the Church of Latter Day Saints every year because of what they find out about Joseph Smith or the church on the internet.
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A former church historian said that they are “leaving in droves” due to the Internet.

There haven’t been any here at CAF in a while.
 
The entire Mormon Church is based off of a fraud. These seer stones they are showing don’t prove anything, and it is becoming apparent that they are being found out. The point is there is not a shred of evidence that the events in the BOM are true. There are animals depicted that weren’t even in America at the time. There were weapons that had not even been created yet. I have a Mormon friend and I tell you I respect anyone’s views I mean I don’t care what people think, but believing the BOM is true is like believing in the Flying Spaghetti Monster. The missionaries tell you the book makes you feel good. Okay that is great, I can read “The Communist Manifesto” and feel good, doesn’t mean I am going to become a Communist. And what about Joes translation of the Book of Abraham that he got scrolls from a travelling circus man with old Egyptian artifacts. He translated it into that book, but now Egyptologists claim it is nothing more than a funeral procession that he translated. The guy has no credibility, even his towns folks claimed he was always a dreamer as a child looking for treasure and such. He is a false prophet, just as Ellen G White, and Mary Baker Eddy are. Not to mention prophecy can only occur at a national level in Israel according to the Bible when Israel has established its kingdom and the temple is rebuilt. Thus they defy that. The whole thing is laughable really, and how people follow it is beyond me. They use the KJV of the bible, the old version, claiming it is the most accurate version when in reality it is now known to be one of the most inaccurate versions, the newer translations compared to the Dead Sea Scrolls are more accurate. Plus if they claim to be Christ’s church restored, why do they use a Protestant Bible? I mean shouldn’t they use what the early Christians would have used, a translation of the Greek Septuagint? I am sick of the Mormon stuff, I wish these people would open their eyes and see how ridiculous Joseph Smith really was.
 
lax16 said:
A former church historian said that they are “leaving in droves” due to the Internet.

There haven’t been any here at CAF in a while.
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and here I thought that this church and Jehovah Witnesses are growing by leaps and bounds!
 
jas84173 said:
The entire Mormon Church is based off of a fraud. These seer stones they are showing don’t prove anything, and it is becoming apparent that they are being found out. The point is there is not a shred of evidence that the events in the BOM are true. There are animals depicted that weren’t even in America at the time. There were weapons that had not even been created yet. I have a Mormon friend and I tell you I respect anyone’s views I mean I don’t care what people think, but believing the BOM is true is like believing in the Flying Spaghetti Monster. The missionaries tell you the book makes you feel good. Okay that is great, I can read “The Communist Manifesto” and feel good, doesn’t mean I am going to become a Communist. And what about Joes translation of the Book of Abraham that he got scrolls from a travelling circus man with old Egyptian artifacts. He translated it into that book, but now Egyptologists claim it is nothing more than a funeral procession that he translated. The guy has no credibility, even his towns folks claimed he was always a dreamer as a child looking for treasure and such. He is a false prophet, just as Ellen G White, and Mary Baker Eddy are. Not to mention prophecy can only occur at a national level in Israel according to the Bible when Israel has established its kingdom and the temple is rebuilt. Thus they defy that. The whole thing is laughable really, and how people follow it is beyond me. They use the KJV of the bible, the old version, claiming it is the most accurate version when in reality it is now known to be one of the most inaccurate versions, the newer translations compared to the Dead Sea Scrolls are more accurate. Plus if they claim to be Christ’s church restored, why do they use a Protestant Bible? I mean shouldn’t they use what the early Christians would have used, a translation of the Greek Septuagint? I am sick of the Mormon stuff, I wish these people would open their eyes and see how ridiculous Joseph Smith really was.
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Wow - you have summarized things very well!!

We have had some very lively discussions here on CAF with our Mormon friends over the years, but lately they are MIA. Unfortunately, it seems we won’t be hearing from them on this thread.
 
7_Sorrows said:
and here I thought that this church and Jehovah Witnesses are growing by leaps and bounds!
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I don’t know about the JW’s but the Mormons are not growing - I hear they are targeting non-English speaking countries for obvious reasons.
 
In light of the pictures of Joseph Smith’s seer stone, this article on a talk at last year’s Sperry Symposium is particularly interesting.

lds.org/church/news/restoration-provides-additional-knowledge-about-apostle-peter?lang=eng
Stephen Harper:
In his revision of the Bible, Joseph Smith added “seer,” so that the Joseph Smith Translation of John 1:42 has Jesus renaming Simon, saying, ‘Thou shalt be called Cephas, which is by interpretation a seer or stone.’ Given the textual links between Jesus’s name for Peter, a seer stone, and revelation, we might consider that the wordplay is richer than the King James Translation suggests and that we should regard Peter as a seer, a recipient of revelations.
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An attempt to link Joseph Smith’s seer stone to Peter perhaps?

Oh and drac, I agree that the stone looks like a Cadbury creme egg.
 
lax16 said:
I don’t know about the JW’s but the Mormons are not growing - I hear they are targeting non-English speaking countries for obvious reasons.
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Resources like MormonThink are available in other languages now.

mormonthink.com/foreign.htm

Unfortunately, many people who are being targeted for conversion in other countries are poor and do not have internet access.
 
iepuras said:
In light of the pictures of Joseph Smith’s seer stone, this article on a talk at last year’s Sperry Symposium is particularly interesting.

lds.org/church/news/restoration-provides-additional-knowledge-about-apostle-peter?lang=eng

An attempt to link Joseph Smith’s seer stone to Peter perhaps?

Oh and drac, I agree that the stone looks like a Cadbury creme egg.
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This is shocking, actually. The Mormon church admits that JS changed the words of scripture?!

My guess is that this talk was given in anticipation of the release of the seer stone information.
 
lax16 said:
I don’t know about the JW’s but the Mormons are not growing - I hear they are targeting non-English speaking countries for obvious reasons.
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Yes, there are actually more Mormons outside of the United States than there are here. They do extensive missionaries in South America and Africa, and not to say those people are dumb, but they are not as educated as much as people in America are for the most part and have less access to sources. So these people in ties from America come and say “hey look at this it’s a new gospel or testament”, they read it, it seems biblical and they believe it. They are really those wolves in sheeps clothing the bible speaks of. Mormons, Jehovah’s Witnesses, Seventh Day Adventists, and Christian Scientists are all created by frauds and a pushing people from Christ, while believing they are the truth. It is sad, I wish there was a way to save them but they are so brainwashed it is unbelievable. I suppose all we can do is pray for them. There hearts are in the right place, but they have been deceived.
 
lax16 said:
This is shocking, actually. The Mormon church admits that JS changed the words of scripture?!

My guess is that this talk was given in anticipation of the release of the seer stone information.
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Not so shocking. They are talking about the Joseph Smith Translation.
 
lax16 said:
The LDS Church has always been in possession of the seer stone Joseph Smith claimed to use while translating the Book of Mormon. However, they are just now publishing the information and photographs in an effort to become more transparent.

sltrib.com/news/2802019-155/mormon-church-releases-photos-of-seer

Does this conflict with the Bible regarding sorcery?

What about the belief depicted in paintings that Joseph Smith wrote the Book of Mormon while seated at a table instead of looking into a hat with a seer stone?
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Perhaps you were unaware of this 1993 Ensign article that references the Seer Stone in the process of translating the Book of Mormon.

lds.org/ensign/1993/07/a-treasured-testament?lang=eng
 
kimg901 said:
Wow. I just lost a few minutes of my life reading that. So the lds faithful are now commenting after being m.i.a for a little bit.
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Not surprised that he is trotting out this Ensign article. It’s been making the rounds.

My question is where is the stone in hat translation method described in seminary lesson manuals, Sunday School lesson manuals, missionary lesson manuals (i.e., any correlated material)?

Gazelam, I will take you more seriously if you can provide a link to an official lesson manual that describes the stone in hat translation method. When you were a missionary, did you tell your investigators that Joseph Smith “translated” the Book of Mormon by looking at a seer stone in a hat? Or did you talk about the golden plates?

Below is a picture depicting the translation in the Preach My Gospel missionary manual. When will the artwork in the Preach My Gospel manual be updated to more accurately reflect what actually happened? Will a photograph of the stone be added?
 
kimg901 said:
Wow. I just lost a few minutes of my life reading that. So the lds faithful are now commenting after being m.i.a for a little bit.
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It is long! 😛

Glad gazelam is here to engage in the discussion.
 
gazelam said:
Perhaps you were unaware of this 1993 Ensign article that references the Seer Stone in the process of translating the Book of Mormon.

lds.org/ensign/1993/07/a-treasured-testament?lang=eng
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I have read several Mormon articles regarding the seer stones used by JS. They are not convincing. Admitting that as a young person he used the same stone for treasure seeking is most shocking. And to say that it was normal for people to be treasure seekers during that time? That is a stretch.
 
drac16 said:
Thank you for warning me. I will respectfully decline, though.

I say ‘what the heck’ when I post, generally. If I can be moderated for calling a priest that doesn’t believe in evangelism a coward, then I can be moderated for anything**. People will call my religion a religion of hatred and imperialism, but don’t get so much as a slap on the wrist.** The moderators don’t even try to be consistent.
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How do you know this?

Unless TimothyH had told us he got an infraction, how would you know? Only the moderators know who has infractions and who do not because you cannot see the private communication given by the moderators. Your statement than is uncharitable as well as false.
 
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