joyce meyer

[robwar]

In reply, it isn’t slander to question someone who makes a lot of money in the name of God and Joyce Meyers has been called into question by others, especially a us congressman.
Nor is it slander to question what someone is “teaching” in the name of God. About the comparison made to the Catholic church, There is anointing of the sick, it is a sacrament of the Church. Likewise, for someone to be declared a saint, there has to be 2 verified miracles attributed to their intercession. Considering the large number of saints, there are a lot of miracles out there. Coming from so called lively and exciting services, I much rather go where I can receive the body and blood, soul and divinity of Jesus. I don’t go to church to be entertained or see exciting things but to encounter Jesus and there is nothing like Jesus in the eucharist. About the comment that Jesus healed 100%, the churches that promote that don’t themselves have 100% healing record. Likewise a careful study of the healings of Jesus that are recorded in scripture, they point to who Jesus is as the Son of God. Jesus was brought to Herod and Herod heard about Jesus and wanted to see Jesus perform a miracle. Jesus did not even say a word to him. Herod wasn’t interested in who Jesus is but in a show. Like wise the temptations of Jesus by Satan were about performing miracles which Jesus did not do. There is more to healing and miracles than just a simple belief.

 

[GraceDK]

In reply, it isn’t slander to question someone who makes a lot of money in the name of God and Joyce Meyers has been called into question by others, especially a us congressman.
Nor is it slander to question what someone is “teaching” in the name of God. About the comparison made to the Catholic church, There is anointing of the sick, it is a sacrament of the Church. Likewise, for someone to be declared a saint, there has to be 2 verified miracles attributed to their intercession. Considering the large number of saints, there are a lot of miracles out there. Coming from so called lively and exciting services, I much rather go where I can receive the body and blood, soul and divinity of Jesus. I don’t go to church to be entertained or see exciting things but to encounter Jesus and there is nothing like Jesus in the eucharist. About the comment that Jesus healed 100%, the churches that promote that don’t themselves have 100% healing record. Likewise a careful study of the healings of Jesus that are recorded in scripture, they point to who Jesus is as the Son of God. Jesus was brought to Herod and Herod heard about Jesus and wanted to see Jesus perform a miracle. Jesus did not even say a word to him. Herod wasn’t interested in who Jesus is but in a show. Like wise the temptations of Jesus by Satan were about performing miracles which Jesus did not do. There is more to healing and miracles than just a simple belief.

You make a parody out of Evaneglical Christianity.
Please stop flaunting your ignorance… for if you have any real experience with pentecostal or non-denominational churches from the inside over a longer period of time, you would not speak like you do.

How sad that some Catholics make an either or… the great things of evangelical church life OR the Body and Blood of Christ… we could have both. But as long as many Catholics think we need nothing although the church is in great need of revival… I guess we will keep seeing our numbers falling, young people leaving etc…

 

[robwar]

I not sure what ignorance you are referring to and I have had many years in charismatic independent churches and I speak directly from experience. I think you need to read the large number of converts to the Catholic church that have to same or similar testimony. We don’t have to copy protestants to attract others. Just being faithful to our own. The religious communities that have the biggest growth are the ones faithful to the church such as Sisters of Mary Mother of the Eucharist in Ann Arbor Mi. Another local Catholic church that is packed is a very traditional Church. There are so many exciting and wonderful things in our Church and Faith. We have the complete and whole truth. Catholics don’t need Joyce Meyers to feel good about themselves, we have so many wonderful saints and examples to emulate and follow. Sorry that you are not seeing this in the Catholic Church. Its why I left a bunch of emptiness to become Catholic. Maybe if Catholics stop being looking to others outside and looked at the many beautiful people and teaching and things we do have there would be the revival you are looking for.

 

[onlybygrace]

Hello!

I have watched and listened to her talks during the times when I was trying to “refresh” my relationship with God. I believe that sometimes, it is good to hear from other people their testimony–how God works in their lives. You should never consider them as a ‘prophet’, but you should listen to their testimonies in order to realize what can be done differently to communicate with God. There is nothing wrong with listening to these people, just as long as we reflect on their message and align them with the teachings of the Catholic Church.

In terms of career, I believe that God gave us different choices for us to choose. That is how generous God is. I believe the important thing to consider is that whatever you do, you offer everything to God. Believe me when I say when you completely surrender, God will lead the way.

I hope this helps. God Bless.

 

[robwar]

Hello!

I have watched and listened to her talks during the times when I was trying to “refresh” my relationship with God. I believe that sometimes, it is good to hear from other people their testimony–how God works in their lives. You should never consider them as a ‘prophet’, but you should listen to their testimonies in order to realize what can be done differently to communicate with God. There is nothing wrong with listening to these people, just as long as we reflect on their message and align them with the teachings of the Catholic Church.

In terms of career, I believe that God gave us different choices for us to choose. That is how generous God is. I believe the important thing to consider is that whatever you do, you offer everything to God. Believe me when I say when you completely surrender, God will lead the way.

I hope this helps. God Bless.

I understand what you are saying but Joyce Meyers along with Joel Osteen are the latest version of the Word of Faith/ health and wealth heresy. While she has uplifting and inspiring and even helpful things and is very popular, there still is a underlying heresy there and the original question is should Catholics watch her and support her. That is the same idea if CAtholics should read the Left behind series or follow and support the hundreds of para church ministries out there. I guess that having come out of that heresy myself, there are so many wonderful and good things in the Catholic Church that why bother with someone whose underlying message is heresy and has made herself very rich in the process. a little poison does poison the whole gallon. I would think it would be better to
avoid the poison. Ever heard of how to boil a frog alive? it is done very slowly and over time. yes i am sure that she was helpful to you at a time when you needed it but listening to someone who has an underlying message of heresy can slowly lead you into that over time and without you knowing it.

 

[Sailor_Kenshin]

I always find it sad when Christians slander other Christians. What Joyce Meyer does with her money is none of your knowlege. She has written books that have inspired thousands of people, including Catholics. What she does for charity is none of your knowlege…

Nor is it anyone’s BUSINESS.

I find the slander sad, too—and sadder still that it was Catholics who soured me on my own church.

PS: As for the others on this thread, which seems to exist simply to slander another Christian—are you insisting that God wants us all to feel BAD?

Why are you so afraid of Joyce Meyer, Joel Osteen and their ideas?

If Catholicism is the right idea, nothing should be able to keep people away.

 

[Luvtosew]

I like Joyce Meyer and have some of her books, her and Dr. Stanley I like. As a Catholic I have read a few of the Saints and I can’t relate, as I"m not a Saint, maybe I read the wrong ones, but Mother Teresa story made me very depressed and discouraged. My heart broke for her, and well she spent her whole life caring for others, I’m sure she is in heaven if anyone is.

Saying that the majority of them on TV are a real turn off.

 

[Castello]

After she converts and embraces the Truth of the Faith, I will watch her. Til then, I pray for her conversion.

 

[GraceDK]

Nor is it anyone’s BUSINESS.

I find the slander sad, too—and sadder still that it was Catholics who soured me on my own church.

PS: As for the others on this thread, which seems to exist simply to slander another Christian—are you insisting that God wants us all to feel BAD?

Why are you so afraid of Joyce Meyer, Joel Osteen and their ideas?

If Catholicism is the right idea, nothing should be able to keep people away.

Hey Sailor.
I missed you on this thread.
What does “soured me” means? Sorry I’m not a native English speaker.

Don’t worry about all these people who really often don’t know what they are talking about, so they are afraid… or maybe jealous, or maybe they simply can’t imagine…
In fact I sometimes experienced this: I told some Catholics about my experiences in Evaneglical churches: like the fact that people would get healed from diseases in front of everyone etc. or words of prophesy, or even a lot of wonderful “ordinary” things like complete order, fantastic fellowship etc… and many Catholics get a blank stare in their eyes… they can’t relate very well. The worse situation which I also experience sometimes is when Catholics say: “Well we don’t need good preaching and miracles because we have the body and blood of Christ”.

Well I sure need good preaching, and I sure need to see God’s promises fulfilled not just in theory. When Paul speaks about the edification of the assembly he also doesn’t speak merely of the Holy Communion.

Besides, Luvtosew is right… Often one cannot relate to saints… or we relate only in the phases where we are totally high on God right after our conversion where we have not experienced any disillusion and we think we are half way angels soaring in the sky. One can be inspired yes, eg. by Padre Pio, or rather what God did with his life, but relate… no, most often not.
For that reason I just love testimonies of Corrie ten Boom, David du Plessis, Gulshan Esther and so many other people - mostly of different Protestant backgrounds - who lived recently or today and who, inspite of being just ordinary Christians, singles or married, experience God’s very mighty hand in their lives.

If someone were to convince me to stop reading Evangelical books, listening to their testimonies and hearing their music/celebrating faith with them, I would have to be invited by Catholics to take part in similar things in Catholic settings, but its not widespread here… I do not say it doesn’t exist. Eg. I know a former criminal alcoholic who was in prison where he was baptised in the Holy Spirit and he now speaks in tongues, preaches fantastically and today he is the most popular CATHOLIC priest in my country. There is actually fellowship and life at his church…
I know also some Catholic Charismatic groups and initiatives that really flourish where fantastic preaching and also healing occurs… but its less than it should be, and futher apart geographically… and I reckon it has something to do with the fact that our structure doesn’t involve lay people and ministries according to the Letter to the Corinthians and in some ways many Catholic parishes have become the fulfillment of the parody they make of the Evaneglicals:
“a me and Jesus- mentality” where “all focus on one man”.

Its funny… many people say about the Catholic Church: “Its full of gold and silver… we don’t want to be a part of that rich club for it hasn’t anything to do with the Gospels.”
We know of course that this is slander… The Church has been rich once perhaps, but not very much so anymore… (am I not right)… Anyway, now here we see Catholics slandering Evangelicals for having money…

I once met a Jewish lady who said: You Christians your all divided and hate each other, right ? (she probably heard of the yearly fight in the Church of Nativity… I said: “NO, I am Catholic. The Protestants are my beloved brethren”. The lady was very surprised…

 

[GraceDK]

After she converts and embraces the Truth of the Faith, I will watch her. Til then, I pray for her conversion.

Yet you might be more in need of conversion than she…? is it not so?
Maybe she knows Christ’s heart better than you, and has used the 5 talents he gave her better than you have used your 30…

We cannot know…

 

[TheRealJuliane]

I do not think it is slander to warn Catholics to be careful when listening to/watching these kinds of preachers/entertainers. Their motivational talks can have an element of almost hypnosis, they are that practiced. Now, Joyce Meyer may not be as slick as Joel Osteen, but just be cautious, because they are not Catholic and many of that kind are actually anti-Catholic. I have watched and listened to many Evangelicals and I need to watch for things that contradict our faith…I would especially caution new Catholics or those who have come back after a long period away, not to spend any time with evangelicals, but to surround themselves and immerse themselves in all things Catholic instead.

For an apologist, watching these shows is not as dangerous.

But what is always stressed is having a “personal relationship with Jesus Christ” which automatically excludes Catholics, as our Church includes a priest, to whom we confess our sins and upon whom rests the mantle of Christ. Ask any of these preachers if Catholics are Christian and you will get an earful.

 

[robwar]

thank you. false doctrine is false doctrine and a little poison will ruin the whole well.
If some one is looking for speaking in tongues and a more lively worship, there are many
wonderful Catholic Charismatic groups to go to and be involved in. I escaped that faith/word/name claim stuff. listening to these types of teachers and getting involved is very deadly and dangerous. Joyce has made millions and lives a very rich life-style, much more different than this down to earth persona she is presenting on her shows on TV. pointing this out is not a all slander but facts and concerns that even many Protestants have pointed out and a us congressman tried to investigate. The Catholic Church has the complete truth, established by Christ. We still have all the miracles just as recorded in scripture. You can relate to the Saints. you need to study and read and learn. If looking for miracles come to Fr. Solanus Center in Detroit, they are still talking about him and the healings God did through his intercession.

 

[GraceDK]

But what is always stressed is having a “personal relationship with Jesus Christ” which automatically excludes Catholics, as our Church includes a priest

Hmm… no not exactly. Actually I had a personal relationship with Jesus before I ever met a Catholic priest, and most of my direct communication with Jesus takes place outside of the presense of a priest.

, to whom we confess our sins and upon whom rests the mantle of Christ. Ask any of these preachers if Catholics are Christian and you will get an earful.

It might be like that in America… I cannot say, but any Evangelical I have ever befriended said nothing bad of Catholics and recognized there are true Christians in all Christian churches… Could it be that you are painting the devil on the wall here Juliane? I mean… you already admitted that you never listen to an Evaneglical sermon without trying to find fault within it. Maybe thats why it cannot uplift you… for your heart is closed.
Nothing surpasses the nonsense I have heard in Catholic church sermons… however, if I were always on my guard I wouldn’t benefit from all the good sermons…

 

[Sailor_Kenshin]

I do not think it is slander to warn Catholics to be careful when listening to/watching these kinds of preachers/entertainers. Their motivational talks can have an element of almost hypnosis, they are that practiced. Now, Joyce Meyer may not be as slick as Joel Osteen, but just be cautious, because they are not Catholic and many of that kind are actually anti-Catholic. I have watched and listened to many Evangelicals and I need to watch for things that contradict our faith…I would especially caution new Catholics or those who have come back after a long period away, not to spend any time with evangelicals, but to surround themselves and immerse themselves in all things Catholic instead.

For an apologist, watching these shows is not as dangerous.

But what is always stressed is having a “personal relationship with Jesus Christ” which automatically excludes Catholics, as our Church includes a priest, to whom we confess our sins and upon whom rests the mantle of Christ. Ask any of these preachers if Catholics are Christian and you will get an earful.

What are you so afraid of?

Are we Catholics NOT supposed to have a relationship with Christ?

Can you point out what elements of ‘hypnosis’ you will find in the recorded televison shows of Joel Osteen, Joyce Meyer, and Jimmy Evans? (I THINK that’s his name; I enjoy him, too).

Can you point to specific incidents of anti-Catholicism there?

Because I sure see a LOT of anti-Protestantism here, and with the First Amendment under attack, I will take all the allies I can get.

 

[robwar]

What are you so afraid of?
no one is afraid of anything, what these people teach is heresy.

Are we Catholics NOT supposed to have a relationship with Christ?

we have a relationship with Christ already, especially in the Eucharist which is the source and summant of our faith.

Can you point out what elements of ‘hypnosis’ you will find in the recorded televison shows of Joel Osteen, Joyce Meyer, and Jimmy Evans? (I THINK that’s his name; I enjoy him, too).

Can you point to specific incidents of anti-Catholicism there?

If you did deeper into these people, there is a lot. These people would see that they would not see Catholics as saved, they do not believe in our sacraments, authority of our Church ,etc etc.

Because I sure see a LOT of anti-Protestantism here, and with the First Amendment under attack, I will take all the allies I can get.

you seemed to be confused and equate pointing out heresy and errors that is being taught here to attacks on free speech. Some of the biggest critics of the word/faith movement which Joyce and Joel are the latest versions of are from other Protestants themselves. and easy google search will bring up and number of articles and some of them are not exactly from pro-Catholic sources. You seem to get upset if there is a discussion about protestants yet you seem to have no problem criticizing the Catholic Church. I am praying for you.

 

[Sailor_Kenshin]

Hey Sailor.
I missed you on this thread.
What does “soured me” means? Sorry I’m not a native English speaker.

Don’t worry about all these people who really often don’t know what they are talking about, so they are afraid… or maybe jealous, or maybe they simply can’t imagine…
In fact I sometimes experienced this: I told some Catholics about my experiences in Evaneglical churches: like the fact that people would get healed from diseases in front of everyone etc. or words of prophesy, or even a lot of wonderful “ordinary” things like complete order, fantastic fellowship etc… and many Catholics get a blank stare in their eyes… they can’t relate very well. The worse situation which I also experience sometimes is when Catholics say: “Well we don’t need good preaching and miracles because we have the body and blood of Christ”.

Well I sure need good preaching, and I sure need to see God’s promises fulfilled not just in theory. When Paul speaks about the edification of the assembly he also doesn’t speak merely of the Holy Communion.

Besides, Luvtosew is right… Often one cannot relate to saints… or we relate only in the phases where we are totally high on God right after our conversion where we have not experienced any disillusion and we think we are half way angels soaring in the sky. One can be inspired yes, eg. by Padre Pio, or rather what God did with his life, but relate… no, most often not.
For that reason I just love testimonies of Corrie ten Boom, David du Plessis, Gulshan Esther and so many other people - mostly of different Protestant backgrounds - who lived recently or today and who, inspite of being just ordinary Christians, singles or married, experience God’s very mighty hand in their lives.

If someone were to convince me to stop reading Evangelical books, listening to their testimonies and hearing their music/celebrating faith with them, I would have to be invited by Catholics to take part in similar things in Catholic settings, but its not widespread here… I do not say it doesn’t exist. Eg. I know a former criminal alcoholic who was in prison where he was baptised in the Holy Spirit and he now speaks in tongues, preaches fantastically and today he is the most popular CATHOLIC priest in my country. There is actually fellowship and life at his church…
I know also some Catholic Charismatic groups and initiatives that really flourish where fantastic preaching and also healing occurs… but its less than it should be, and futher apart geographically… and I reckon it has something to do with the fact that our structure doesn’t involve lay people and ministries according to the Letter to the Corinthians and in some ways many Catholic parishes have become the fulfillment of the parody they make of the Evaneglicals:
“a me and Jesus- mentality” where “all focus on one man”.

Its funny… many people say about the Catholic Church: “Its full of gold and silver… we don’t want to be a part of that rich club for it hasn’t anything to do with the Gospels.”
We know of course that this is slander… The Church has been rich once perhaps, but not very much so anymore… (am I not right)… Anyway, now here we see Catholics slandering Evangelicals for having money…

I once met a Jewish lady who said: You Christians your all divided and hate each other, right ? (she probably heard of the yearly fight in the Church of Nativity… I said: “NO, I am Catholic. The Protestants are my beloved brethren”. The lady was very surprised…

What ‘soured me?’

Maybe not on the Church itself, but on the way Catholics behave?

I admit to being shocked by the thrashing that many people here gave Tim Tebow. I was taken aback by the same thrashing given to Joel Osteen, Joyce Meyer, and others.

Maybe I expected better of Catholics. Or expected them to say things like, “Osteen et al are our separated bretheren, we don’t agree with their doctrine, but they clearly do good in the world.”

Or maybe I got tired of Catholics who seem to claim the heresy of Albingensianism as their own and believe you should, too.

I see it as two lawn parties. At one party, people are smiling and welcoming you. At the other party, they’re dressed in sackcloth and ashes, and scowl and say, “Get over here so we can chastise you! And you have way too much money!”

For a long time I hesitated to post anything negative about either the Church or her members. I do not want to discourage anyone or run anyone off.

All I know is that I get GOOD advice for living my daily life from Meyer, Osteen, etc. And I’m tired of the elitist attitude I see in a lot of Catholics. I thought the very word meant ‘universal.’

Hence my disappointment.

 

[TheRealJuliane]

What are you so afraid of?

Are we Catholics NOT supposed to have a relationship with Christ?

Can you point out what elements of ‘hypnosis’ you will find in the recorded televison shows of Joel Osteen, Joyce Meyer, and Jimmy Evans? (I THINK that’s his name; I enjoy him, too).

Can you point to specific incidents of anti-Catholicism there?

Because I sure see a LOT of anti-Protestantism here, and with the First Amendment under attack, I will take all the allies I can get.

Oh, I am not afraid, not in any way. Disappointed…concerned…for my fellow Christians, yes. And what I said was that Joel Osteen et al have a manner of presenting that can seem ALMOST hypnotic. It is honey for itching ears. They tell people what to do to have a successful life here on earth. Funny, it seems to contradict the Gospel directly…Jesus warned us that following Him would be hard, very hard indeed, and that we should not measure our success by the world’s measurement. Every time I look at the Gospels, I do not hear Joel Osteen’s smooth-delivery big-smiling eye-blinking motivation talks.

You won’t hear the specific anti-Catholic references in their stage shows, because they want everyone to be entertained and leave happy (so they leave more money). One has to listen with skeptical ears in order to follow the bread crumbs to that end. If you are positively disposed to Osteen, you won’t hear it.

Of course we as Catholics have a relationship with Jesus - you know that and so do I. But in the theology of Evangelicals, priests are definitely NOT included in any capacity. If confession of sins is necessary, then they confess to Jesus alone. They don’t believe in the Real Presence, the Communion of Saints, or the veneration of Mary. In fact I think if you brought up these subjects in front of Joel, he might have a severe attack of eye-blinking as he tried to justify his beliefs and yet still not offend!

 

[GraceDK]

All I know is that I get GOOD advice for living my daily life from Meyer, Osteen, etc. And I’m tired of the elitist attitude I see in a lot of Catholics. I thought the very word meant ‘universal.’

Hence my disappointment.

I hear you brother… I hear you very well.

I also have found strengths and richness in the Evangelical churches which we often lack in most Catholic parishes…
And these things are maybe secondary but they certainly are not minor… wherefore I will keep having the company of Evangelicals and join their meetings and services if I again have the opportunity…
I have for some periods in my life been going to Pentecostal and messianic congregations, and have there experienced things which humbled me as a Catholic who came with some pride and wanted to teach them,… I was the one who was inspired by them… and since they were most often just using the Bible in their sermons and talk, I could find little fault with their words… (Mind you we do not have the same problem with anti-Catholicism here in Europe that many Americans seem to experience and neither are we Catholics scared of our Protestant brethren.)

I know for a fact that many Evangelicals admire Catholics… and that many Catholics admire Evangelicals. I know because I experienced this. The first time I was in my Pentecostal cell group one young man said: “Hey Grace, its so cool that you are here… it was a Catholic saint that evangelised this country!” Everything took place in this spirit of friendship and mutual affection. I have met others again who willingly read my Catholic books, discussed Scripture with me, went and prayed in my church with me, and did you know Theresa of Avila is quite popular in some evangelical groups now?

. How I wish we could all come together more and admit that we need each others gifts in order to have the fullness of the parish life that we all long for… They certainly need our Sacraments, we certainly need their wisdom on evangelisation, preaching and fellowship… and faith really…

I met a normal evangelical man who came to pick up his kid from daycare. The daycare lady sat him down and said: “Im sorry, you have to find another one to take care of Joey, because I have gotten cancer”. The man said calmly: “We have a God who performs miracles. Do you mind if I pray for you?” And so he prayed for her right then and there… and she was healed. This was not a story about a munk from the middle ages, but a normal married man anno 2005 who told me of his own experience.

Another man in my vicinity, a farmer, experienced a horrible accident where his little boy was driven over and died on the spot. The father lifted up his boy, ran into the house with him and screemed to God for 30-40 minutes and the boy became tranformed and “rose from the dead” before his eyes… Again, this happend to a normal family some 15-20 years ago.

Such testimonies were widespread in the Church that I attended… and there were many young people who were on fire with the Gospels and joyful… not just young women mind you, but both genders… I was really impressed. And I will not keep a lid on it!
They need the Sacraments, yes…but they should not come into our churches and be starved in many other ways as a result…
We need reevangelisation among ourselves if we wanna convince other Christians to join us.
God bless you brother

 

[Sailor_Kenshin]

Oh, I am not afraid, not in any way. Disappointed…concerned…for my fellow Christians, yes. And what I said was that Joel Osteen et al have a manner of presenting that can seem ALMOST hypnotic. It is honey for itching ears. They tell people what to do to have a successful life here on earth. Funny, it seems to contradict the Gospel directly…Jesus warned us that following Him would be hard, very hard indeed, and that we should not measure our success by the world’s measurement. Every time I look at the Gospels, I do not hear Joel Osteen’s smooth-delivery big-smiling eye-blinking motivation talks.

You won’t hear the specific anti-Catholic references in their stage shows, because they want everyone to be entertained and leave happy (so they leave more money). One has to listen with skeptical ears in order to follow the bread crumbs to that end. If you are positively disposed to Osteen, you won’t hear it.

Of course we as Catholics have a relationship with Jesus - you know that and so do I. But in the theology of Evangelicals, priests are definitely NOT included in any capacity. If confession of sins is necessary, then they confess to Jesus alone. They don’t believe in the Real Presence, the Communion of Saints, or the veneration of Mary. In fact I think if you brought up these subjects in front of Joel, he might have a severe attack of eye-blinking as he tried to justify his beliefs and yet still not offend!

In what way does the Catholic church specifically forbid prosperity?

What is wrong with having a good and successful life on earth?

Although I don’t believe in the teachings of Calvin or Luther…Hey. Maybe I AM in the wrong seating section.

 

[Irish_Polock]

Oh, I am not afraid, not in any way. Disappointed…concerned…for my fellow Christians, yes. And what I said was that Joel Osteen et al have a manner of presenting that can seem ALMOST hypnotic. It is honey for itching ears. They tell people what to do to have a successful life here on earth. Funny, it seems to contradict the Gospel directly…Jesus warned us that following Him would be hard, very hard indeed, and that we should not measure our success by the world’s measurement. Every time I look at the Gospels, I do not hear Joel Osteen’s smooth-delivery big-smiling eye-blinking motivation talks.

You won’t hear the specific anti-Catholic references in their stage shows, because they want everyone to be entertained and leave happy (so they leave more money). One has to listen with skeptical ears in order to follow the bread crumbs to that end. If you are positively disposed to Osteen, you won’t hear it.

Of course we as Catholics have a relationship with Jesus - you know that and so do I. ** But in the theology of Evangelicals, priests are definitely NOT included in any capacity. If confession of sins is necessary, then they confess to Jesus alone. They don’t believe in the Real Presence, the Communion of Saints, or the veneration of Mary. In fact I think if you brought up these subjects in front of Joel, he might have a severe attack of eye-blinking as he tried to justify his beliefs and yet still not offend! **

Indeed, I agree. ad majorem Dei gloriam