Joys of Muslim Women

[emarc]

Sharing w/ you this email I just received.

Joys of Muslim Women
This should be read by everyone.This is about a woman from Iran who converted from Muslim to Christianity and was exiled by her family. (At least they didn’t execute her.) She speaks to women’s groups now and she tells this same story.

Joys of Muslim Women:
by Nonie Darwish

In the Muslim faith a Muslim man can marry a child as young as 1 year old and have sexual intimacy with this child, consummating the marriage by 9. The dowry is given to the family in exchange for the woman (who becomes his slave) and for the purchase - (transaction) of the private parts of the woman, to use her as a sex toy. Even though a woman is abused she can not obtain a divorce. To prove rape, the woman must have (4) male witnesses. Often after a woman has been raped, she is returned to her family and the family must return the dowry. The family has the right to execute
her (an honor killing) to restore the honor of the family. Husbands can beat their wives ‘at will’ and he does not have to say why he has beaten her to anyone. The husband is permitted to have (4 wives) and a temporary wife for an hour (prostitute) at his discretion. The Shariah Muslim law controls the private as well as the public life of the woman.
In the Western World ( America ), Muslim men are starting to demand Shariah Law so the wife can not obtain a divorce, and he can have full and complete control of her as in the old country. It is amazing and alarming how many of our sisters and daughters attending American Universities are now marrying Muslim men and submitting themselves and their children unsuspectingly to the Shariah law. By passing this on, enlightened American women may avoid becoming a
slave under Shariah Law. Learn More… Read: “Cruel and Usual Punishment: The Terrifying Global Implications of Islamic Law”, by Nonie Darwish, just released in most bookstores. Author and lecturer Nonie Darwish says the goal of radical Islamists is to impose Shariah law on the world, ripping Western law and liberty in two. Darwish was born in Cairo and spent her childhood in and Gaza before emigrating to America in 1978, When she was eight years old,
her father died while leading covert attacks on Israel . He was a high-ranking Egyptian military officer stationed with his family in Gaza . When he died, he was considered a “shahid,” a martyr for jihad. His posthumous status earned Nonie and her family an elevated position in Muslim society.
But Darwish developed a skeptical eye at an early age. She
questioned her own Muslim culture and upbringing. She converted to Christianity after hearing a Christian preacher on television. In her latest book, Darwish warns about creeping Shariah law - what it is, what it means, and how it is manifested in Islamic countries.
For the West, she says radical Islamists are working to impose
Shariah on the world, not just the US . If that happens, Western civilization will be destroyed, which of course we know is their goal, no matter how many generations it takes.
In twenty years there will be enough Muslim voters in the to
elect the President! I think everyone in the U.S. should be
required to read this, but with the ACLU, there is no way this will be widely publicized, unless each of us sends this messge on. Egypt U.S.
God bless.

 

[seraphime2008]

Oh My Dear Lord,
it happens in Indonesia too but with different method through the work of the terrorists demanding that Indonesia and later on the South East Asia applying the Sharia Law. If the purpose of muslims all over the world was to imply sharia to each corner of the world, it only stresses the conclusion that it is a scheme of the devil itself !!

 

[Maria65]

Is the title of this thread supposed to be sarcastic? When I saw it, I thought, “Muslim women have joys???” After reading it, it confirms that they indeed do not.

It breaks my heart to hear about human beings being treated in this way.

 

[emarc]

How muslims treat their women is truly degrading and scary, yet a U.S. congressman recently advocated applying sharia law in our courts? Some crazy elected officials simply don’t know what they are wishing for. I’m trying to google his name and have not had the luck yet. Does someone know?
God bless.

 

[Jay53]

How muslims treat their women is truly degrading and scary, yet a U.S. congressman recently advocated applying sharia law in our courts? Some crazy elected officials simply don’t know what they are wishing for. I’m trying to google his name and have not had the luck yet. Does someone know?
God bless.

I don’t know about a Congressman, but Obama picked (and the Senate confirmed) Harold Koh (who supposedly has no problem with Sharia law) to be the legal advisor to the Department of State . Could that be who you are thinking of?

traditionalvalues.org/modules.php?sid=3604
advancingequality.org/en/rel/205/

 

[Guyonthestreet]

I wonder if she has an agenda, similar to the one catholics that convert to other religions are accused of

For a slightly different perspective of a sharia court:

The flood of applications stems from husbands’ misuse of Islamic laws on marriage. Under Islamic law, a man is allowed to have up to four wives and has the primary right to call for divorce, known as talaq. As a result, it is possible for a husband to leave his wife and re-marry, refuse to give his first wife a divorce, and still consider himself living in accordance with his faith. In the eyes of the Muslim community, his first wife is still married, and because women are only allowed one husband at a time, she is stranded. “She is left hanging in midair,” says Najma Ebrahim, a coordinator with the Muslim Women’s Helpline, which receives 2,000 calls a year, 70%-80% of which are from women with marital problems. And with divorce comes stigma from the community. “To them, the woman is a failure: she couldn’t keep her husband.”

The council writes to the husband on behalf of the wife - a process known as khul’a - and asks him to grant his wife talaq. If he does not agree, or refuses to respond, after three months the council aims to issue a divorce.

guardian.co.uk/world/2007/jun/14/religion.news

 

[Sam_777]

Shariah on the world, not just the US . If that happens, Western civilization will be destroyed, which of course we know is their goal, no matter how many generations it takes.

Which western civilization we are talking about ???

The civilization of accepting same-sex marriage, public adultery, and drunkenness. :nope:
or
The civilization of respecting human rights and free believe of religions. :yup:

 

[IHeartAquinas]

Oddly enough, Sharia is not expressed anywhere in the Koran. It is derived from the Hadith (sp?) much like Catholic Dogmatic Law is, to a great extent, derived from Tradition. Many Westerners (especially Bible-belt Republican relatives of mine) believe that Sharia is Islam’s version of the ten commandments. Additionally, there are many Muslims, hundreds of thousands if not millions, who reject sharia. If I recall correctly, it is only one of the two major branches that actually sets down sharia as a requirement of the faith. The other one does not really have a stance on the matter. Again, correct me if I’m wrong, I don’t have anything readily available to check my statement.

But then, a Muslim couple that I worked with previously reminds me of what America truly does have to offer–freedom. The woman converted to Islam from Jehovah’s Witness and took on a traditional Islamic name and agreed to raise their children as Muslims. Yet, despite her husband’s strict, traditional Muslim upbringing, he permitted her to not wear her burqa at work (ie, he said the uniform was fine), she did not have to hide her hair despite working with several men, and he did not have a problem with coming to our after-work parties (he usually came along too and had a great time! ) Did he believe in sharia? Yes. Did he believe that he should enforce it on his wife and family in a country outside of Saudi Arabia? No. Not all Muslims are blind zombies who have a global agenda to implement sharia worldwide. Many (I would actually say most) are the same thinking, rational creatures you and I happen to be who understand that when a western woman comes to a country that enforces sharia and respectfully dons a burqa that it is respectful not to enforce their customs on us in our homeland.

As for congressmen and presidents seeking to do such things, I would simply reference the raising of the Chinese flag on the White House Lawn back in September. American Liberalism has gone to the dark side of liberalism, allowing everything and supporting everything for the very sake that it exists instead of maintaining the liberty of the people as was originally the liberal mandate. If sharia is implemented in the US or EU it won’t be because of Muslim terrorists or some global Muslim conspiracy. It will be the work of politicians which the voters happened to think were pretty.

 

[dzheremi]

Which western civilization we are talking about ???

The civilization of accepting same-sex marriage, public adultery, and drunkenness. :nope:
or
The civilization of respecting human rights and free believe of religions. :yup:

Good point, Sam. Some things that are associated with the free lifestyle of the West aren’t exactly worth fighting for.

To the OP: Half of that e-mail is essentially an advertisement for her book. What’s up with that? If/when Shari’a comes to the USA we’ll have only ourselves to blame, and not because not enough of us read Darwish’s book.

 

[Sam_777]

Some things that are associated with the free lifestyle of the West aren’t exactly worth fighting for.

http://forums.catholic-questions.org/images/icons/icon14.gif Yes you got it right “aren’t exactly worth fighting for”

To the OP: Half of that e-mail is essentially an advertisement for her book.

Unfortunately few people would realize that, if she really want to spread the truth, then that book in addition to selling as a hard-copy should be in soft-copy format free for download to anyone anywhere.

 

[Sam_777]

Sharia is not expressed anywhere in the Koran. It is derived from the Hadith (sp?) much like Catholic Dogmatic Law is, to a great extent, derived from Tradition.

No, I think you understood it wrong, Sharia derived from Quran and Hadith to represent a complete Islamic dogma for Muslims to practise Islam according to Muhammed’s Tradition.

More in this link.

 

[Christos]

Sharing w/ you this email I just received.

Joys of Muslim Women
This should be read by everyone.This is about a woman from Iran who converted from Muslim to Christianity and was exiled by her family. (At least they didn’t execute her.) She speaks to women’s groups now and she tells this same story.

Joys of Muslim Women:
by Nonie Darwish

In the Muslim faith a Muslim man can marry a child as young as 1 year old and have sexual intimacy with this child, consummating the marriage by 9. The dowry is given to the family in exchange for the woman (who becomes his slave) and for the purchase - (transaction) of the private parts of the woman, to use her as a sex toy. Even though a woman is abused she can not obtain a divorce. To prove rape, the woman must have (4) male witnesses. Often after a woman has been raped, she is returned to her family and the family must return the dowry. The family has the right to execute

It is not marrying a child as young as 1 years old. It’s like an arranged marraige. However, the woman must be consenting also at the time of consummation. The dowry is for the woman and not for her family. No she is not the slave of the husband, for sexual reasons or whichever. Yes a woman can ask for divorce if she is being abused and if the husband refuses to give it, she can go to a judge and get it. To prove rape all you need is any type of evidence and then it is up to the discretion of the judge. It is about adultery, and no, it is not the accused that must provide the four witnesses, but the accuser. What do you mean after the woman is raped, she is returned to her family? If he married her, he can only return her by divorcing her. No, he doesn’t get the dowry money back because he had given it to her as a wedding gift. These are all plain twisting of the truths and i could go on for ALL the others in this post but I refuse to put up with your ignorance.

Isn’t it in the bible that if a man rapes a woman he must marry her. What kind of punishment is that for the woman. First, she does not even want to have sex with him, thus committing adultery, that she got raped. Now that she got raped, shes stuck with him for the rest of her life?

It seems to me, this email/forward is just another way that people would like to tarnish the name of Islam. How many more lies would you like to hear. Go seek the truth.

 

[Sam_777]

Isn’t it in the bible that if a man rapes a woman he must marry her. What kind of punishment is that for the woman. First, she does not even want to have sex with him, thus committing adultery, that she got raped. Now that she got raped, shes stuck with him for the rest of her life?

You better provide the complete quote for that next time :

“If a man happens to meet a virgin who is not pledged to be married and rapes her and they are discovered, he shall pay the girl’s father fifty shekels of silver. He must marry the girl, for he has violated her. He can never divorce her as long as he lives.” (Deuteronomy 22:28-29).

First, I think there are some conditions to be met as shown above in order for that to happen.

Second, the OT applied for the Jews at that time, in the NT there is nothing like that.

Third, I think its fair for such punishment at that time, because that had happen inside the Jews tribes, and it seems that it would be impossible for the raped woman to find a husband after she got raped (similar to what is happening nowadays in the Arabic world).

 

[Sibylla]

Oddly enough, Sharia is not expressed anywhere in the Koran. It is derived from the Hadith (sp?) much like Catholic Dogmatic Law is, to a great extent, derived from Tradition. Many Westerners (especially Bible-belt Republican relatives of mine) believe that Sharia is Islam’s version of the ten commandments. Additionally, there are many Muslims, hundreds of thousands if not millions, who reject sharia…

Heart Aquinas,
It is both main pillars of Islam who believe in sharia. Both Sunni and Shi’a implement strict laws that are to be considered sacred. The Hadiths are “sacred” texts in Islam and what is happening today is that we have an onslaught of Wahhabism (extreme Saudi-Sunni Islam), Salafism, Shi’a being forced down the throats of all Muslims. This is something we can’t overlook because it affects us as well. As you know sharia is now active in the UK and many enclaves in Europe and the US practice sharia 100%.

Here in the United States we have sharia cases as well as compounds where sharia is practiced. I work on this issue and not long ago we went to an Islamic Cultural Center in Nashville, TN and heard how an 8 year old talked about her husband. We also recorded how the kids talked about being beaten during sharia class. We gave the recordings and all the evidence to the police, FBI, Child Services, etc. but nobody paid attention. Funny they had no problem raiding a Mormon sect compound, but not this one. I guess you can call it political correctness, infiltration, fear, CAIR, etc. at work.
The problem is so grave that if the average person knew what is really going on they would literally panic.

There are many Muslims who are nice people, however you must realize that the root of Islam is so evil, but so evil that if they became good Muslims they will all be like Muhammad or Muhammad Atta if you will. All you have to do to realize this is to read the Koran and the Hadiths/Sira for example. And I would even tell you that the English translation of the Koran is extremely light compared to what is really written in Arabic. This is another cause why many Muslims are not like Muhammad Atta, because 80% of Muslims are not Arabs and approximately 60% of them are illiterate.
As to your last paragraph, you are absolutely right. Politicians will be the downfall of our nation. However there are those brainwashed ones who will vote for them as we saw even Catholics voting for a pro infanticide candidate.

Back to Islam, sharia, the threat we face, and to demonstrate the gravity of the problem here is just a few terrorists training camps here in the United States established by a Pakistani Sheikh. You’ll see them training with automatic weapons, bomb making and diffusion, kidnapping, attacking by surprise, setting up mock hostage situations, etc. All here in different training compounds spread across the United States.
youtube.com/watch?v=_dEYqaeePbY
And take into consideration that this is just one group. We have over 400 hardcore terrorist sympathizer groups embed in all levels of our society including our government. Most are tentacles of the Muslim Brotherhood.

As to your friend who believed in Sharia but that it should not be implemented here in the West, I say it is very hard for a Muslim who believes in sharia to think that it should not be implemented in the west. They believe it is divine decree and that it is their duty to do it. If you are still not convinced, look up the doctrine of Al-taqqiya that it is an Islamic holy doctrine that permits them to deceive and lie if the ultimate goal is for the cause of Allah.
I will tell you that 85% of the Muslims here in America are, for the most part, extremists and if you ever heard how they curse the West, Christians and Jews, and all others in most of their mosques here you would then realize how dangerous is not to be prudent when it comes to an ideology that seeks to kill and is in love with death such as is Islam. Read the Koran and you’ll see how they have as mandate to kill the Christians and all non-believers of Islam. How they do it is a different story. But you can see how the persecution of Christians around the world has increased to unseen levels. Who is persecuting them? Muslims.

Here is another video that will show you how even back in the 80’s you can see the founder of al-qaeda, Abdullah Azzam, here praising martyrdom to kill all Jews and to prepare for the first intifada. This was an infiltration of a mosque here in Kansas City, Missouri. youtube.com/watch?v=JPJcUURFXgg

I think it’s good to think your neighbor is not a bad person, but it is not moral to put blinders on when and if that neighbor is trying to kill you at the end.

My belief is that is not moral for “good” Muslims to sit there without shouting when an injustice is being done using the justification of Islam. If they were good then they would be outraged when they hear that Churches are burnt in Egypt, Christians burned alive in say Nigeria, Pakistan, etc, or beheaded in say Indonesia, Sudan, Somalia, Albania, etc. and only for the mere reason that they are Christians. I had the unfortunate experience of having to see the aftermath of one of their raids of a Church and how then they go around the villages butchering and beheading innocents for just being Christian. I also saw bodies laying down in front of a Church that were half burned to death and when I was in Albania I saw how they went to the bathroom in the Churches they themselves destroyed and used the Bible as toilet paper. That is the reality of the world today and if you are brave enough to see what is really going on then go to this link WARNING EXTREMELY GRAPHIC, but it will show you what is going on. truthtube.tv

 

[livnlern]

Sybilla, How do you know these things? Have you lived in a Muslim country? And I completely agree with your point that “good” Muslims never seem to speak out against suicide bombers and terrorist acts by others of their religion.

 

[livnlern]

It is not marrying a child as young as 1 years old. It’s like an arranged marraige. However, the woman must be consenting also at the time of consummation. The dowry is for the woman and not for her family. No she is not the slave of the husband, for sexual reasons or whichever. Yes a woman can ask for divorce if she is being abused and if the husband refuses to give it, she can go to a judge and get it. To prove rape all you need is any type of evidence and then it is up to the discretion of the judge. It is about adultery, and no, it is not the accused that must provide the four witnesses, but the accuser. What do you mean after the woman is raped, she is returned to her family? If he married her, he can only return her by divorcing her. No, he doesn’t get the dowry money back because he had given it to her as a wedding gift. These are all plain twisting of the truths and i could go on for ALL the others in this post but I refuse to put up with your ignorance.

Isn’t it in the bible that if a man rapes a woman he must marry her. What kind of punishment is that for the woman. First, she does not even want to have sex with him, thus committing adultery, that she got raped. Now that she got raped, shes stuck with him for the rest of her life?

It seems to me, this email/forward is just another way that people would like to tarnish the name of Islam. How many more lies would you like to hear. Go seek the truth.

You talk about an arranged marriage. How old does the bride have to be?

 

[Sibylla]

Sybilla, How do you know these things? Have you lived in a Muslim country? And I completely agree with your point that “good” Muslims never seem to speak out against suicide bombers and terrorist acts by others of their religion.

Yes and now I work on the issue of Sharia and other elements that are creeping in from the so-called religion of peace.

Funny because this article is by Nonie Darwish, an Egyptian woman who was the daughter of a top intel guy for the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt. She is an incredible and nice woman who I see quite often. She formed an organization that is dedicated for the apostates of Islam with a mission to protect them as the penalty for apostasy is death. And this punishment is quite known among even the so-called moderate Muslims.

Yes, I think that their silence is deafening. I didn’t arrive to this conclusion because I wanted to but because I have seen the horrors and then I see nothing done from the Muslims themselves. I will grant you that in places like say Algeria Muslims protest against the violence that is done on them using the very tenants of Islam as justification, but you won’t see them do the same in the West. In reality is because underneath it all they view us as the immoral ones and they want the takeover. Even if they don’t propagate violence in order to accomplish this goal they still want a takeover and won’t do much when a fellow Muslim goes on a jihadi mode.

I always say, it doesn’t make you peaceful or moderate to just stand there on the sidewalk while you see a woman being raped across the street. This is exactly what most so-called moderate Muslims do. They just stand there.

BTW, there are no moderate Muslims. Islam is not moderate. Islam is a virulent ideology in love with murder and death. Remember their so-called prophet fought in 27 different battles himself. He raped and beheaded people himself and he also participated in the invasion of the Byzantine empire while sending his fellow Khalid Walid (sp?) towards Babylonia. Walid beheaded so many that a nearby canal still today is referred to as the “blood canal” in the Euphrates River. The term moderate Muslim was invented in order to be politically correct by Western apologists. In the Middle-East, in particular, they simply call it Islam. It is simply Dar-es-Salaam (the House of Peace or Islam) versus Dar-al-Harb (the House of War or all that it is non-Muslim).

The links, particularly the last one will give you a glimpse of what is going on. Be careful with the last one. It will show you the true face of Islam, especially if you click on “most views” underneath the video on the main site.

The other links will show you a mere glimpse of what we are facing here in the States. Don’t count on the media to show you how they are training in over 35 Islamic terrorist training camps here in the United States, but it is on the first link I put up there. The second will show you how they’ve been creeping in here for decades and what is being preached in most mosques here in the US. One fact that many people don’t realize is that what is preached at mosques here in the United States is extremely hateful towards the United States and violent. How will then kids who hear that as divine decree will not think otherwise and in many cases act on it? Hateful indoctrination is rampant. 99% of the mosques we looked at here in the US were so hateful and extremely dangerous. Most are breeding grounds for future jihadists. Those eggs will hatch someday. I would even say that they are hatching right now. Did you know that there has been over 10 major terrorist plots foiled in the last 7 months alone. Two of them (the Colorado cell/Zazi and the Ohio cell) included WMD’s. One can’t miss one single terrorist act because that can result in an unimaginable devastation.

These jihadist don’t act alone. They are now indoctrinated here, harbored, protected, and helped by the very same mosques people call places of worship.

 

[Sibylla]

…These are all plain twisting of the truths and i could go on for ALL the others in this post but I refuse to put up with your ignorance.

Let’s see who is really telling the truth here:

First, very ironic that Muslims would quote the Bible. You guys always love to quote Deuteronomy, but tell me of a case that you know of Christians doing this? If you tell me of one I will make sure I will tell the authorities (and I am a Christian), whereas I doubt many Muslims will do the same.

You accuse this woman of lying, well she has lived under shariah for over 3 decades. I know her personally and she doesn’t lie.

You said that “It is not marrying a child as young as 1 years old. It’s like an arranged marraige.” and then you say that the woman must consent at the time of consummation. Let me ask you something, if a marriage contract was done when she was 1 year old and by say 11 the man marries her, do you consider that an age capable of consenting to the sexual desires of usually an older man? I have seen many things from Muslim societies from many places and don’t play taqqyia or deny that the age of 11 and in many cases even 7 years old like the little child brides from Yemen, for example is an age many Muslims see as suitable for marriage. In many self-proclaimed Muslim countries the legal age is 9. I find that appalling and depraved.

However, you missed the point altogether. Nonie is not referring to arrange marriages here, but rather to this:
Quran 65.4 “and those of your women as have passed the age of monthly courses, for them the 'iddah (prescribed divorce period), if you have doubts (about their periods), is three months, and for those who have no courses (i.e. They are still immature) their 'iddah (prescribed period) is three months likewise, except in case of death] . And for those who are pregnant (whether they are divorced or their husbands are dead), their 'iddah (prescribed period) is until they deliver (their burdens) (give birth) and whosoever fears Allah and keeps his duty to him, he will make his matter easy for him.”

As you can see Sura (65:4) lays down rules for divorce and sets the prescribed period for divorce. It clearly says, Muslim men can marry (and divorce) little girls who have not yet reached menstruation age.

Do you think Muhammad is a role model? If so, why don’t you explain say this:
"Sahih Bukhari v1, b4, #231:
Narrated Sulaiman bin Aasar:
I asked 'Aisha about the clothes soiled with semen. She replied, “i used to wash it off the clothes of Allah’s apostle and he would go for the prayer while water spots were still visible.”

Also, you said “To prove rape all you need is any type of evidence and then it is up to the discretion of the judge.” It’s always up to the discretion of the judge, but if Muhammad said that it was okay to take women as war booty and do whatever you please with them…if he himself raped women, including Zenaid (sp?), how can that judge not be clouded by the examples of who he considers a prophet?

As to four witnesses, sorry but again under sharia judges for the most part go with the parameters set forth in this verse:
Sura 4:15 - Lewd women should be punished with life imprisonment until death: “If any of your women are guilty of lewdness, Take the evidence of four witnesses from amongst you against them; and if they testify, confine them to houses until death do claim them, or God ordain for them some (other) way.” SO WHO IS LYING NOW???

Let me ask you something, how many witnesses does a woman need when her word at court is valued half that of a man? (Sura 2:282) If the accused has an alibi that will make it two men, so if the women is worth half of a man in court (which in most sharia abiding countries they are – or you are going to lie about this too?) how many witnesses does she need in order to match her opponent who happened to be a man? Sorry but you are either ignorant about the practices of your own religion which will make you a “bad Muslim” or you don’t know about this: Bukhari (48:826)
Narrated Abu Said Al-Khudri:
The Prophet said, “Isn’t the witness of a woman equal to half of that of a man?” The women said, “Yes.” He said, “This is because of the deficiency of a woman’s mind.”
Or Tabari IX:113 “Allah permits you to shut them in separate rooms and to beat them, but not severely. If they abstain, they have the right to food and clothing”

I mean I could go on and on… And if you say that this is not to be taken literally, well then why is it? I see on a daily basis sharia cases that not even animals are capable of doing.

This case below is quite common:

youtube.com/watch?v=UjSmX5aLYLA

PS: Why is the reward in the afterlife for Muslims so carnal, sexual? Is there no soul involved? Is your Jannah full of fruit, milk, wine, because the desert in the times of Muhammad had none of those? Is it full of sexual encounters because it is the ultimate reward to have sex numerous times apparently and with many partners? Where is the concept of soul? Spirit?

Islam is so immoral that you have NO CLAIM and absolutely NO RIGHT to ever but ever say one thing about anyone. You are a slave of your own immorality justified with some sort of “divinity” so you can continue to deny the perversion, the injustice, the evil of Islam. Do yourself the biggest favor of all and do not fear the monster that has enslaved you and deprived you of your own humanity and actual salvation.

How islam started tells us what it’s all about… How many battles did Muhammad participate in? How about when he beheaded the men in the battle of Banu Bakr? How about when he told his followers to lie for allah? How about when he had sex with most of his mistresses in one night only? (Bukhari 5:268)

So immoral, so sick that its victims can’t even see the source of the illness.

 

[livnlern]

Which western civilization we are talking about ???

The civilization of accepting same-sex marriage, public adultery, and drunkenness. :nope:
or
The civilization of respecting human rights and free believe of religions. :yup:

I can’t speak for European countries but same-sex marriage has been voted down by a majority of states in the US, so most people are against it. And public adultery causes a scandal, as in the case of Tiger Woods. It’s talked about in the media a lot here but people disapprove of it and think he’s a fool… I think you’re getting your information from movies and the media, both of which are very liberal, unlike a good number of people who live in the US.

 

[Sibylla]

I can’t speak for European countries but same-sex marriage has been voted down by a majority of states in the US, so most people are against it. And public adultery causes a scandal, as in the case of Tiger Woods. It’s talked about in the media a lot here but people disapprove of it and think he’s a fool… I think you’re getting your information from movies and the media, both of which are very liberal, unlike a good number of people who live in the US.

That’s very good livnlern! And don’t forget that the most immoral acts are also an intrical part of Muslim societies, (i.e. rape, pedophilia, “honor killings”, incest, and to the surprise of everyone here rampant homosexuality). Contrary to most people’s beliefs, the largest gay organization is a Muslim organization called Al-Fatiha. It is the largest one in the world, but shhhh… you won’t hear the Muslims and its apologists name the organization.
Amazing how they claim the west is so morally decadent, however polygamy, rape, pedophilia, homosexuality, wife beating, beheading of non-muslims, prohibition of any other religion, plain simple dissent, sex slavery, and so many other horrific things are for the most part predominant in Muslim societies.