Joys of Muslim Women

[KathleenGee]

Sibylla,

Thank you for all your sharing and insights…you just answered the intuition of a few posts I read today by people here wondering why the passive silence of moderates…and seeing it as a red herring…a disguise.

I don’t believe them. I don’t believe their benevolence here in America…they are simply thinking today is not the right time … to take over.

I pray to God for the Muslim people and our country to be healed of the massive fragmentation of Christianity.

I think we are the Mother Lode of Christianity constantly splitting off from itself.

 

[dzheremi]

Maybe I am wrong, but when I read Sam’s post I thought it was saying that there are two sides to Western societies: The open, respecting, and free side, and the side that mistakes being “free” with the right to legislate religious or other moral convictions out of existence in the name of letting people do whatever they want at all times. I think it is hard to honestly refute this characterization.

 

[Sam_777]

I think you’re getting your information from movies and the media, both of which are very liberal, unlike a good number of people who live in the US.

I have been to the west many times (including US) and I’ve seen with my eyes the public nudity ads and how the woman body is used as a marketing tool (not to mention recently the same-sex ads), and the many pubs in the streets which would help make more people drunks and falling into adultery (the same of what happened with Tiger Woods).

However, I think you should revise your sentence to:
“unlike a good number of Christian people who live in the US”.

Amazing how they claim the west is so morally decadent, however polygamy, rape, pedophilia, homosexuality, wife beating, beheading of non-muslims, prohibition of any other religion, plain simple dissent, sex slavery, and so many other horrific things are for the most part predominant in Muslim societies.

They’re both in the same boat but in different levels…

Maybe I am wrong, but when I read Sam’s post I thought it was saying that there are two sides to Western societies: The open, respecting, and free side, and the side that mistakes being “free” with the right to legislate religious or other moral convictions out of existence in the name of letting people do whatever they want at all times. I think it is hard to honestly refute this characterization.

 

[livnlern]

I have been to the west many times (including US) and I’ve seen with my eyes the public nudity ads and how the woman body is used as a marketing tool (not to mention recently the same-sex ads), and the many pubs in the streets which would help make more people drunks and falling into adultery (the same of what happened with Tiger Woods).

However, I think you should revise your sentence to:
“unlike a good number of Christian people who live in the US”.

To my point, the “public nudity ads” are from the media and people in the entertainment industry.
And, yes it is mostly the Christians who object to these things.

 

[livnlern]

That’s very good livnlern! And don’t forget that the most immoral acts are also an intrical part of Muslim societies, (i.e. rape, pedophilia, “honor killings”, incest, and to the surprise of everyone here rampant homosexuality). Contrary to most people’s beliefs, the largest gay organization is a Muslim organization called Al-Fatiha. It is the largest one in the world, but shhhh… you won’t hear the Muslims and its apologists name the organization.
Amazing how they claim the west is so morally decadent, however polygamy, rape, pedophilia, homosexuality, wife beating, beheading of non-muslims, prohibition of any other religion, plain simple dissent, sex slavery, and so many other horrific things are for the most part predominant in Muslim societies.

The problem, Sibylla, is that because our media is so far to the left, these things are never reported on. So most people are unaware of all of what you say. Thank you for telling the truth. What book would you recommend in order to get an accurate picture of life in the Muslim world? I know the OP talks about a book, but is this the one you would recommend?
Also, can I ask you this: do Muslims believe in predestination?

 

[KathleenGee]

Sam 777,

I live in the most hostile state against religion in the USA.

A number of years ago, a lawyer got the Supreme Court judges to pass a law that would give unrestricted freedom of expression to free speech…

The foreign born lawyer worked on his ‘law’ for 20 years before submitting it, because he wanted to make sure any loopholes were plugged. Subquently, outside our neighborhood, across the street, the empty restaurant had been for sale for a long time, and it looked like it had finally been sold.

But the windows were being blocked to the beautiful view of the town and valley below. I thought it was a new restaurant until I saw them blocking the windows. Then a big truck and lift came, and when I came back, the sign said, ‘Adult Fantasy Video’.

The neighborhood and surrounding area had no idea this property was to be used. We had community meetings and were told there was absolutely nothing we could do unless we set up a referendum.

There was houses directly behind the porno shop with families, and when you drive right to the highway, there is the sign and business. What made people particularly disturbed was that people were in that frame of mind 24 hours a day.

First thing that happened, was that the neighborhood council was evangelical Christians. I offered to draw on support of my Archdiocese, but they refused. So I eventually got petitions, sent it to our state representative in the diocese, and the petition was sent to all the Catholic parishes for people to sign, and we finally got the referendum on the ballot.

But this state is highly secular with little perception of anything religious or spiritual. The people of the state were being lied to that restoring past regulations would some how set back the freedom of speech people have in other parts of the country.

So the proposition failed by a resounding 81% because the natives got confused.

We are the smut capital of the country. Now the porn shop has mannequins with scantily clothes on, 5 of them across the main window. The mannequins actually light up at night.

What is really bad is that the public school bus comes into the porn shop parking lot, drives within feet of the window and entrance, drives around and down to pick up children in the homes next door. I want to get out there and take a picture of the school bus coming in at 8:20 am with people from our community center as witnesses.

What a statement this picture would be…people here are so concerned about pollution, global warming and believe all the hoaxes…but do nothing about the pollution of pornography.

Planned Parenthood and seculars in control of our public schools deliberately worked behind or in opposition to parents by promoting sexual promiscuity to our children. Right now Obama has a man in charge of education who promoted ‘fisting’ kits to our teenagers.
Unbelieveable. Do a search.

It was my generation who followed the Beatles, sex and drugs and now run our country. But do know the Holy Spirit helped those of us through our parents and relatives to stay on the straight and narrow…We are marginalized in our society.

I witness Muslims all the time saying American Christians have no modesty…when it is the seculars are those they have seduced.

 

[gamewell45]

In twenty years there will be enough Muslim voters in the to
elect the President! I think everyone in the U.S. should be
required to read this, but with the ACLU, there is no way this will be widely publicized, unless each of us sends this messge on. Egypt U.S.
God bless.

What is the source of your information to make this claim regarding Muslim voters electing a President?

 

[livnlern]

Kathleen Gee,
Have you tried going with this story about the school bus to O’Reilly or some other conservative news person? It’s really terrible that something like this is allowed to go on and I’m sorry for you and the children who are exposed to this trash.

 

[ZAKI]

Sharing w/ you this email I just received.

Joys of Muslim Women
This should be read by everyone.This is about a woman from Iran who converted from Muslim to Christianity and was exiled by her family. (At least they didn’t execute her.) She speaks to women’s groups now and she tells this same story.

Joys of Muslim Women:
by Nonie Darwish

In the Muslim faith a Muslim man can marry a child as young as 1 year old and have sexual intimacy with this child, consummating the marriage by 9. The dowry is given to the family in exchange for the woman (who becomes his slave) and for the purchase - (transaction) of the private parts of the woman, to use her as a sex toy. Even though a woman is abused she can not obtain a divorce. To prove rape, the woman must have (4) male witnesses. Often after a woman has been raped, she is returned to her family and the family must return the dowry. The family has the right to execute
her (an honor killing) to restore the honor of the family. Husbands can beat their wives ‘at will’ and he does not have to say why he has beaten her to anyone. The husband is permitted to have (4 wives) and a temporary wife for an hour (prostitute) at his discretion. The Shariah Muslim law controls the private as well as the public life of the woman.
In the Western World ( America ), Muslim men are starting to demand Shariah Law so the wife can not obtain a divorce, and he can have full and complete control of her as in the old country. It is amazing and alarming how many of our sisters and daughters attending American Universities are now marrying Muslim men and submitting themselves and their children unsuspectingly to the Shariah law. By passing this on, enlightened American women may avoid becoming a
slave under Shariah Law. Learn More… Read: “Cruel and Usual Punishment: The Terrifying Global Implications of Islamic Law”, by Nonie Darwish, just released in most bookstores. Author and lecturer Nonie Darwish says the goal of radical Islamists is to impose Shariah law on the world, ripping Western law and liberty in two. Darwish was born in Cairo and spent her childhood in and Gaza before emigrating to America in 1978, When she was eight years old,
her father died while leading covert attacks on Israel . He was a high-ranking Egyptian military officer stationed with his family in Gaza . When he died, he was considered a “shahid,” a martyr for jihad. His posthumous status earned Nonie and her family an elevated position in Muslim society.
But Darwish developed a skeptical eye at an early age. She
questioned her own Muslim culture and upbringing. She converted to Christianity after hearing a Christian preacher on television. In her latest book, Darwish warns about creeping Shariah law - what it is, what it means, and how it is manifested in Islamic countries.
For the West, she says radical Islamists are working to impose
Shariah on the world, not just the US . If that happens, Western civilization will be destroyed, which of course we know is their goal, no matter how many generations it takes.
In twenty years there will be enough Muslim voters in the to
elect the President! I think everyone in the U.S. should be
required to read this, but with the ACLU, there is no way this will be widely publicized, unless each of us sends this messge on. Egypt U.S.
God bless.

to say the truth-in same places in the world, christians can also be married off at a young age and consummated at young ages

 

[Nine_Two]

to say the truth-in same places in the world, christians can also be married off at a young age and consummated at young ages

While I’m not aware of any of those countries off the top of my head, any place where that happens would be due to cultural norms, rather than religious acceptance.

 

[dzheremi]

It is not enshrined in the laws of our religion, however. This is the difference.

Edit: Er…yeah, what Nine Two said!

 

[ZAKI]

While I’m not aware of any of those countries off the top of my head, any place where that happens would be due to cultural norms, rather than religious acceptance.

nor is it accepted in islam either.

 

[Nine_Two]

nor is it accepted in islam either.

My understanding is it is covered under Sharia law.

 

[Jimzz12]

Is the title of this thread supposed to be sarcastic? When I saw it, I thought, “Muslim women have joys???” After reading it, it confirms that they indeed do not.

It breaks my heart to hear about human beings being treated in this way.

Women living in lands subjicated to the pseudo-religion of Islam, more appropriately described as a socio-political doctrine called Islam, lead tragic, tragic lives. Often they do not realize how tragic it is. I had a beautiful young 25-year old secretary who told me she had not left her house for over 5-years because she was simply afraid. Another is told that she is no good because she was the sister of another woman known to be free in her ways. Islam and the culture that goes along with it is absolutely disgusting. Like the Ring of Tolkien it is altogether evil. Outside the incidentals, whereas no man is completely evil while he is alive (i.e. Hitler, Mohammed, Pol Pot, Napoleon, etc), Islam contains nothing that helps the man and woman realize their unique dignity and approach the Almighty. I used to have this women and children approach me for charity money. I strained to give them anything knowing that someday they would be targeted not for receiving money from an non-Muslim as that was imperceptible to my neighbors, but targetted just because they would congregate and suspicion of being bad women would arise. You see they approached a man instead of just waiting and squatting on the ground, in the dirt, dehumanized in a filthy head and body covering, like they are supposed to. My suspicion was confirmed when they were blown to bits. I have personally seen the harm and foul and there is no denying it. Islam is not a religion. It seeks no truth but only subjication of the masses. It is an utterly materialistic false philosophy that condemns all other philosophy. It is no different that national socialism or soviet communionism. Perhaps this explains the often common political link between these three leftist ideologies.

Darwish has been targetted by violence here in the USA for her simply speech about her little niece committing suicide out of despair. I have a neighbor who was just stabbed to death by a good muslim graduate student. He was to give a speech on the same topic. You in see in Islam it is forbidden to live among the unbeliever for the sake of a better life for either you or your children, unless one strives to proselytize and admonish the unbeliever or commit jihad, specifically violence in order to promote the capturing of territory for Allah. It should come as no suprise. There is always two warnings giving before an act of violent jihad. First, an invitation to conversion. Second, an invitation to political subjication. The conversion can come about in a manner of trickery or through a voluntary act as deceit is to be always used among the unbeliever because with them it is always war. The orthopraxis (conformity in outward action) as opposed to the orthodoxis (belief in the heart) of Islam makes this clear. The political subjication can come about in many ways. The two principle methods are through violence of action and inaction and through tacit accelerated reproduction of children. The making of intolerably large families is a valid form of Jihad in the eyes of Islam, yet another way women are treated as the cattle the Koran describes them to be. The result of these families is the unhappy childhood and psychological abuse of inattention due to family size. Even the Catechism reminds us of the need to space children appropriately and not remain sterile but to again space children appropriately.

I say this as a social scientist having lived in five Middle Eastern countries and a speaker of several languages.

 

[ZAKI]

My understanding is it is covered under Sharia law.

I haven’t heard it covered in the shariah law, i thought you were one of the many christians who because Muhammed had a young wife then that means that muslims are allowed to have a young wife. could you plz share that law in the shariah? (if u can of course)

 

[Nine_Two]

I haven’t heard it covered in the shariah law, i thought you were one of the many christians who because Muhammed had a young wife then that means that muslims are allowed to have a young wife. could you plz share that law in the shariah? (if u can of course)

I’m not a Shariah lawyer, nor do I believe that Muslims are allowed to do everything Mohammed could do, in fact that’s one of my major issues with Islam. You have a supposedly perfect prophet but if anyone else does any of the things he did, they’re damned.

I said it was my understanding, if my understanding is wrong, then correct me.

 

[seraphime2008]

well Zaki is perhaps playing innocent or ignorant?
there’s a verse in Koran that tells about how muslim could divorce women that even includes the women who haven’t had their period/haven’t reached the age of menstruation. Anybody here could tell u exactly which verse it is…if women can be divorced at that age, it also tells that woman can be married at that age…

This has been covered so many times here in CAF but muslim will always play the game of “taqkiya”, they either say never heard such or they will go around the bush saying totally different interpretation of a direct clear verse.

 

[ZAKI]

well Zaki is perhaps playing innocent or ignorant?
there’s a verse in Koran that tells about how muslim could divorce women that even includes the women who haven’t had their period/haven’t reached the age of menstruation. Anybody here could tell u exactly which verse it is…if women can be divorced at that age, it also tells that woman can be married at that age…

This has been covered so many times here in CAF but muslim will always play the game of “taqkiya”, they either say never heard such or they will go around the bush saying totally different interpretation of a direct clear verse.

Give me that verse please.

 

[jakasaki]

Give me that verse please.

{ وَٱللاَّئِي يَئِسْنَ مِنَ ٱلْمَحِيضِ مِن نِّسَآئِكُمْ إِنِ ٱرْتَبْتُمْ فَعِدَّتُهُنَّ ثَلاَثَةُ أَشْهُرٍ وَٱللاَّئِي لَمْ يَحِضْنَ وَأُوْلاَتُ ٱلأَحْمَالِ أَجَلُهُنَّ أَن يَضَعْنَ حَمْلَهُنَّ وَمَن يَتَّقِ ٱللَّهَ يَجْعَل لَّهُ مِنْ أَمْرِهِ يُسْراً }

And [as for] those of your women who (read allā’ī or allā’i in both instances) no longer expect to menstruate, if you have any doubts, about their waiting period, their prescribed [waiting] period shall be three months, and [also for] those who have not yet menstruated, because of their young age, their period shall [also] be three months — both cases apply to other than those whose spouses have died; for these [latter] their period is prescribed in the verse: they shall wait by themselves for four months and ten [days] [Q. 2:234].

And those who are pregnant, their term, the conclusion of their prescribed [waiting] period if divorced or if their spouses be dead, shall be when they deliver.

And whoever fears God, He will make matters ease for him, in this world and in the Hereafter.

altafsir.com/Tafasir.asp?tMadhNo=0&tTafsirNo=74&tSoraNo=65&tAyahNo=4&tDisplay=yes&UserProfile=0&LanguageId=2

65-4
Such of your women as have passed the age of monthly courses, for them the prescribed period, if ye have any doubts, is three months, **and for those who have no courses **(it is the same): for those who carry (life within their wombs), their period is until they deliver their burdens: and for those who fear Allah, He will make their path easy.

Tafsir:
They may not have menstruated as yet either because of young age, or delayed menstrual discharge as it happens in the case of some women, or because of no discharge at all throughout life which, though rare, may also be the case. In any case, the waiting-period of such a woman is the same as of the woman, who has stopped menstruation, that is three months from the time divorce was pronounced.

searchtruth.com/tafsir/tafsir.php?chapter=65

 

[Jimzz12]

well Zaki is perhaps playing innocent or ignorant?
there’s a verse in Koran that tells about how muslim could divorce women that even includes the women who haven’t had their period/haven’t reached the age of menstruation. Anybody here could tell u exactly which verse it is…if women can be divorced at that age, it also tells that woman can be married at that age…

This has been covered so many times here in CAF but muslim will always play the game of “taqkiya”, they either say never heard such or they will go around the bush saying totally different interpretation of a direct clear verse.

The law stipulates that they are to be married after menarch has set. This is typically is eight or nine years old, but differing in some cases due to biology and sociological reasons (diet, environment, etc). The supreme leader of Iran acquired his first wife when she was about 9 years of age. She had her first pregnancy by 10; ending in miscarriage, and gave her first birth by 11. In fairness to him, he has never married another and by all accounts writes very nice poetry dedicated to her. Regardless of the of the circumstances, this remains to be a very publically accepted case of child abuse.

When I was living in Afghanistan the people there told me that they traditionally do not allow marriage to happen between males and females more than five years apart. Although there is no basis for this other than the clear desire to protect their own daughters from harm by establishing society standards, these standards are not universally held to. I often encountered a complaint among city dwellers that the rich merchants take many more wives than their alloted number as set forth by both Islamic tradition and scripture. It is also worth noting that they blame the occurance of such on Arabs, who the Afghan peoples had made clear to me they loathe for a number of reasons, not the least of which is that they have ‘a lot of money’ and ‘buy anything they want’. Another reason may be the profound respect that they have for their land. As they truly believe it is God’s country, and perhaps it is. The land is rife with Hebrew topographical feature names and I even encountered a wonderful little church/temple thing with a blue and white clad Virgin Mother.