JP II said it is OK to worship Mary

  • Thread starter Thread starter Monk71
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
40.png
StCsDavid:
Did he write this in Polish or Italian or Latin? The English translation of worship may have a different meaning to the interpretor.
Click to expand...
it would probably depended on the hearer, too. Some people drive for miles just to see the image of Mary on a grilled cheese sandwich. Many don’t do just thing.
 
40.png
kujo313:
On the face of it, this is difficult to answer. Pius IX’s words do seem excessive. But let’s put them in context. First of all, the quotation is part of Pius IX’s letter to the world’s bishops consulting them on the wisdom of defining the dogma of the Immaculate Conception. In other words, he is speaking within a Marian document. Second, Pius IX is using the papal “we” in expressing his own opinion
Click to expand...
and love for Mary. He is not making a formal doctrinal pronouncement. Third, this statement has to be placed within the context of the whole worship and life of the Church.

Huh? Pius is “expressing his own opinion”. THEN, he says that his opinion has to be placed within the context of the whole WORSHIP (nobody worships Mary!) and life of the “Church”. Capital C. Mary being added (melted?, glued?) into the Rock?You’re wasting your time defending them Kujo…they LIED. They altered the quote to make it say something that the pope did NOT say.

Is this the way of your’truth"?

Read it yourself here on the LINK to the text of the real document on the Vatican website.

Read the Truth! Liars like this are not men of God.
 
The media is a great one for misquoting or taking out of context the things our Church leaders have said. We have to pray for these people ya know 😛
 
However you translate it (“honor”, “veneration”, “worship”, even “adoration” very archaically) I’m sure John Paul used the word meaning dulia or hyperdulia, not Latria.

It’s getting pointlessly tied up terminology. Catholics know we give dulia to the Saints, hyperdulia to Mary, and latria to the Holy Trinity alone. We shouldn’t worry about complaints from anyone.

Its fine to pray to Mary, to honor her, to praise her, to give her glory…as long as we recognize that only God is Self-Existant, only God is the great I AM, only God is omnipotent and omniscient in and of himself (Mary and the Saints may be said to be omnipotent or omniscient in some sense through their sharing in the divine life…but they have not those traits by their own nature). Recognizing God as the Supreme Being is the essence of Latria, and what is reserved for God. Anything else, prayer, praise, honor, he desires to share with his saints and get through his saints.
 
40.png
batteddy:
However you translate it (“honor”, “veneration”, “worship”, even “adoration” very archaically) I’m sure John Paul used the word meaning dulia or hyperdulia, not Latria.

It’s getting pointlessly tied up terminology. Catholics know we give dulia to the Saints, hyperdulia to Mary, and latria to the Holy Trinity alone. We shouldn’t worry about complaints from anyone.

Its fine to pray to Mary, to honor her, to praise her, to give her glory…as long as we recognize that only God is Self-Existant, only God is the great I AM, only God is omnipotent and omniscient in and of himself (Mary and the Saints may be said to be omnipotent or omniscient in some sense through their sharing in the divine life…but they have not those traits by their own nature). Recognizing God as the Supreme Being is the essence of Latria, and what is reserved for God. Anything else, prayer, praise, honor, he desires to share with his saints and get through his saints.
Click to expand...
And just who do YOU say are the “saints”?
 
The pope sez “worship” and now there are different meanings to it. Cool!

Its all about the mystery! So is this called “sola news media?” 😃

**quotes
The media is a great one for misquoting or taking out of context the things our Church leaders have said. We have to pray for these people ya know!

Protestants fabricating “evidence” that Catholics worship Mary? I’m shocked. Shocked!

Some devious protestant could take the second sentence to mean worship of Mary, if properly restated and out of context.**

Is this what the RCC considers the “gates of hell”?

ssheeesh :eek:
 
40.png
geno75:
The pope sez “worship” and now there are different meanings to it. Cool!

Its all about the mystery! So is this called “sola news media?” 😃

**quotes
The media is a great one for misquoting or taking out of context the things our Church leaders have said. We have to pray for these people ya know!

Protestants fabricating “evidence” that Catholics worship Mary? I’m shocked. Shocked!

Some devious protestant could take the second sentence to mean worship of Mary, if properly restated and out of context.**

Is this what the RCC considers the “gates of hell”?

ssheeesh :eek:
Click to expand...
So that is to not be taken seriously? Who desides to do that or not? Why is it, then, that Mary is to be our “mother” as Jesus told John while He was on the cross, and we’re not supposed to be plucking out eyeballs, too?
“Jesus said”, you’ll say. Yet, I bet you still have both hands.

“You are the Christ! The Son of the Living God!” The gates of hell will not prevail against whosoever says and believes those words with all their heart, mind, and soul.
 
40.png
BlackKnight:
It’s called “doctoring” a text…also “False Witness” (See Exodus 20:16 Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour.)

Man! I HATE when they do that! :mad:

However, I LOVE it because it proves them to be every bit as desperate to find any aspect of Catholic faith to attack. Their dishonesty should embarrass them and (if they are thinking people) cause them to question if this is the only place that they have been intentionally misinformed.

Isn’t this a characteristic of a false teacher?
Click to expand...
Peace be with you.

I agree. It seems like every now and then the protestants are caught rewording statements (out and out lies). It seems to me like they will do anything to show the Catholic Church is in error. It’s really very sad to think that there are people out there stuck in this state. We should pray for them.

But as they say, God will allow evil to take place, and out of this use it for the good. In this case, as long as the protestants continue to do this, well, I think a lot of protestants will see these lies and begin converting to the Catholic Church.

It’s really mindboggling.:eek:

Regards,
Chipper
 
40.png
kujo313:
So that is to not be taken seriously? Who desides to do that or not? Why is it, then, that Mary is to be our “mother” as Jesus told John while He was on the cross, and we’re not supposed to be plucking out eyeballs, too?
“Jesus said”, you’ll say. Yet, I bet you still have both hands.

“You are the Christ! The Son of the Living God!” The gates of hell will not prevail against whosoever says and believes those words with all their heart, mind, and soul.
Click to expand...
Kujo, I am not trying to be antagonistic to you, when I say the following. I just can’t make heads or tails out of what you are trying to say in this thread.:confused:

Regards,
Chipper
 
40.png
Chipper:
Kujo, I am not trying to be antagonistic to you, when I say the following. I just can’t make heads or tails out of what you are trying to say in this thread.:confused:

Regards,
Chipper
Click to expand...
Like all anti-Catholic bigots, he’s just throwing out anything and hoping something sticks. He has nothing like a strategy or plan–he just thinks that by regurgitating the lies he’s been told (but unfortunately believes) he’s doing the Lord’s work.
 
40.png
Chipper:
The pope sez “worship” and now there are different meanings to it. Cool!

Its all about the mystery! So is this called “sola news media?”

quotes
The media is a great one for misquoting or taking out of context the things our Church leaders have said. We have to pray for these people ya know!

Protestants fabricating “evidence” that Catholics worship Mary? I’m shocked. Shocked!

Some devious protestant could take the second sentence to mean worship of Mary, if properly restated and out of context.

Is this what the RCC considers the “gates of hell”?

ssheeesh
Click to expand...
It’s simple, Protestants are listing a word that just isn’t there when you go to that days daily audience, and read the ACTUAL quote. Did you read through the provided links in this thread?

Yes we honor and Vernerate Mary, because Christ wants us to, and asked us to, just as Christ honored Moses, Abraham and other Fathers. We WORSHIP God and God alone.

"26
When Jesus saw his mother 11 and the disciple there whom he loved, he said to his mother, “Woman, behold, your son.”
27
Then he said to the disciple, “Behold, your mother.” And from that hour the disciple took her into his home. "

And on a side note, Protestants believe Jesus had brothers, why would Mary move in with the disciples instead of having Jesus brothers taking care of her? Where were Jesus brothers when he was hanging on the cross?

In the Gospel of John the disciple that Jesus loves is never named, that disciple is all of us. Jesus loves all his disciples who do what he asks. And he asks for us to make Mary all our spiritual mother.
 
40.png
Mike_D30:
It’s simple, Protestants are listing a word that just isn’t there when you go to that days daily audience, and read the ACTUAL quote. Did you read through the provided links in this thread?

Yes we honor and Vernerate Mary, because Christ wants us to, and asked us to, just as Christ honored Moses, Abraham and other Fathers. We WORSHIP God and God alone.
Click to expand...
Yes I did, I’m the one that provided the link.

Regards,
Calvin
 
40.png
Chipper:
Yes I did, I’m the one that provided the link.

Regards,
Calvin
Click to expand...
I quoted the wrong person, I was trying to quote Geno75, sorry for the mix up.
 
40.png
Mike_D30:
I quoted the wrong person, I was trying to quote Geno75, sorry for the mix up.
Click to expand...
Oh that’s okay. It seems like your thread changed after I responded to you.

Oh well, for some reason the good Lord wants me to be confused this morning! 😛

Regards,
Chipper
 
Lest anyone think that we are beating around the bush. Confusion is caused because English has one word for intense love and admiration (worship) while within the concept of worship in theology there are three distinct levels and kinds all encompassed by the single word “worship.”

Worship: Intense love or admiration.

Catholics are called to show and have intense love and admiration (worship) for God, Mary and the Saints.

However, our “worship” is not equal. We are to hold Saints in dulia love and admiration, hyperdulia love and admiration for Mary, and latria exclusively for God.

And, while this is not an excuse, it is an explanation for some of the problems with our separated brethren in this area. Non-Catholic Christians don’t regularly utilize the concepts of dulia and hyperdulia when they use the word worship while Catholics understand that the the use of the word worship followed by Saints, Mary or God has a different meaning and context.

Catholics have tried to bridge the semantic confusion with our separated brethren by using the word venerate when talking about the Saints and Mary. However, this in some ways creates its own semantic problem. Venerate means to revere and diminishes the idea of the love we have for the Saints and Mary.

For clarity for non-Catholic Christians, I’d like to use the analogy of my love for my mother-in-law. It is not a distraction or detraction to my love of my wife but enhances and reflects my profound love of my wife. So it is with those Saints and Mary already in the presence of God.

Greek doulia; Lat. servitus), a theological term signifying the honour paid to the saints, while latria means worship given to God alone, and hyperdulia the veneration offered to the Blessed Virgin Mary. St. Augustine (De Civ. Dei, X, ii, 1) distinguishes two kinds of servitus: “one which is due to men . . . which in Greek is called dulia; the other, latria, which is the service pertaining to the worship of God”. St. Thomas (II-II:103:3) bases the distinction on the difference between God’s supreme dominion and that which one man may exercise over another. Catholic theologians insist that the difference is one of kind and not merely of degree; dulia and latria being as far apart as are the creature and the Creator. newadvent.org/cathen/05188b.htm

Noting the bolded above, the difference between our worship of the Saints or Mary is as infinite as the difference between us lowly humans and God Himself.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top