JPII "whipped himself in remorse for sins" [CNAU]

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I’ve always thought it made sense, but I’ve never tried it for the very reason you mention - I don’t have a spiritual director. We all practice ‘ascetism light’ during Lent, but more significant forms surely require supervision.
Without proper guidance they can lead to abuse. It’s not about abusing yourself. It’s about reminding yourself that you are sinful. That’s why it takes a spiritual director to guide you. Because we’re not really objective when it comes to ourselves. We tend to be to easy or to hard on ourselves.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
 
I read the article today that Pope John Paul II whipped himself for penance. For me as a protestant, I don’t understand it. Doesn’t the Bible say Jesus dead to take away our sin on the cross? How can whipping help take away our sins. Please help me cause I don’t understand.
 
I read the article today that Pope John Paul II whipped himself for penance. For me as a protestant, I don’t understand it. Doesn’t the Bible say Jesus dead to take away our sin on the cross? How can whipping help take away our sins. Please help me cause I don’t understand.
Christ’s sacrifice is timeless. Therefore, one can unite one’s penitential sacrifices to those of Christ as calvary from any point in time. These sacrifices are not done independently, but in union with Christ’s sacrifice.

In addition, Christ redeemed us. This is true. But this does not mean that he took away our sins. It means that he made it possible for us to work out our salvation in union with his sacrifice through prayer, on-going conversion (change), striving to practice perfecgt charity as he did, striving to practice perfect obedience to the Father as he did, living in communion with him through communion with our brothers and sisters, thus fulfilling his desire that “all may be one,” and uniting ourselves physically to him through the sacrament of the Eucharist where Christ becomes physically present under the appearance of bread and wine.

Yes, Christ takes away the sins of those who want to be rid of sin. He does not impose salvation on those who do not want it. If you go to the Gospels and read about the Last Supper. Christ raises the bread and the chalice and says that this is his body and blood that he will shed for the MANY, not for all. God, in his infinite mercy wants to save all. However, God in his infinite love, allows man to choose whether he wants to be saved. Many do not and many do. Salvation and forgiveness of sin is available to those who want it. But to receive the grace of salvation from sin, one must unite one’s life to the life of Christ.

We must live like Christ lived and suffer as Christ suffered. To try to acheive salvation without putting anything of ourselves into it is stealing. It is asking Christ to do all the work himself, when in fact he did not commit any of the sins. It is a matter of justice that man must sacrifice himself and unite his sacrifice to the sacrfice of Christ, so that through Christ who is lifted on the cross the sacrifice is offered to the Father by Christ. As St. Paul teaches us, we must make up what is lacking in the sacrfice of Christ.

What could possibly be lacking in the sacrifice of Christ? The answer is simple. What is lacking is our desire to unite our love to the love of Christ. The God who made us without our help cannot save us without our help. It is contrary to God’s nature to violate our freedom and impose his love. He gives it freely, but we must accept it. The way that we do that is by living the virtuous life united to him through prayer, sacrifice, charity, sacrament and fidelity to the Father.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
 
I read the article today that Pope John Paul II whipped himself for penance. For me as a protestant, I don’t understand it. Doesn’t the Bible say Jesus dead to take away our sin on the cross? How can whipping help take away our sins. Please help me cause I don’t understand.
The Bible ALSO tells us to daily take up crosses of our own. Note that phrasing - ‘take up your cross daily’. It doesn’t mean at all the same thing as ‘passively accept the crosses that others or circumstances place upon you’, taking up a cross is an active and self-willed thing.

Jesus didn’t just endorse all sorts of mortifications in His own life, He commanded us to practice them too. Note His statement ‘WHEN (not if) you fast …’ By your logic fasting shouldn’t be understandable either. Yet here we have Jesus commanding us to fast.

Why? Well, for one, He said fasting was powerful against demons, when combined with prayer as all penance should be. Isn’t it just possible that other mortifications ALSO enhance the power of our prayer in the same way?
 
Corporal mortification isn’t new. St. Francis of Assisi, St. Catherine of Siena, St. Thomas More, St. Ignatius of Loyola, St. Teresa of Avila, St. Jean Vianney, Padre Pio, etc.
I’m sure the secular reporters were gleeful to headline this private practice of JPII’s.
 
It is not up to any of us to criticize the spiritual life of the Pope…
Actually, I make you wrong there.
As far as turning it on you had you not posted in a manner of trying to sensationalize this ,
Which I didn’t, that is your imagination.
but asked a question in a sincere way about why people mortify themselves I might believe you
Precisely.
As it is, you look like you couldn’t wait to post a bit of a persons private struggle
So it is okay for non-catholic media to show it to the enitre world. But it’s not okay for catholics to look at it together? Hmm…
As for you saying he shouldn’t have done this… Who are you to judge?
I am another human being, that is why I CAN judge.

When I about 12 I use to self harm, that is I use to cut myself and do many other terrible things. My doctor recognised this as WRONG. Perhaps that is why I am reacting in this way. Because SELF HARM is a horrific thing only done by people who are hurting in thier mind.
 
Actually, I make you wrong there.

Which I didn’t, that is your imagination.

Precisely.

So it is okay for non-catholic media to show it to the enitre world. But it’s not okay for catholics to look at it together? Hmm…

I am another human being, that is why I CAN judge.

When I about 12 I use to self harm, that is I use to cut myself and do many other terrible things. My doctor recognised this as WRONG. Perhaps that is why I am reacting in this way. Because SELF HARM is a horrific thing only done by people who are hurting in thier mind.
You have a great deal to learn about being a catholic…I suggest you start by being respectful of things you don’t understand

As for worrying about what Protestants might think…I frankly don’t care
 
I think it is a true sign of his great devotion to God.
I totally agree. If he really did do this, it is a sign of his great devotion to God. Pope John Paul II was a wonderful Pope and I pray that someday he is canonized a saint! 👍
 
I didn’t know that “JPII whipped himself in remorse for sins” had been in the news for quite sometime, I have just read it recently about the nun who testified to it. I am also uncomfortable with this practice. Even when I read the lives of the saints most esp. St. John of the Cross with chains and whips, (with no malice intent), it reminded me of what some guys at the office would watch - some bondage ritual. So, it’s kind a scary thought to be doing.
Is this self-infliction a penitential sacrifice? Is there any saint who didn’t?
I can understand some self-deprivation like fasting and austerity to be good for one’s self and as a sacrifice for others, but I don’t really get how self-inflicted pain could. I thought we are not to seek pain but when it comes to embrace it with Christ on the Cross.
Thanks.
Gie
 
I didn’t know that “JPII whipped himself in remorse for sins” had been in the news for quite sometime, I have just read it recently about the nun who testified to it. I am also uncomfortable with this practice. Even when I read the lives of the saints most esp. St. John of the Cross with chains and whips, (with no malice intent), it reminded me of what some guys at the office would watch - some bondage ritual. So, it’s kind a scary thought to be doing.
Is this self-infliction a penitential sacrifice? Is there any saint who didn’t?
I can understand some self-deprivation like fasting and austerity to be good for one’s self and as a sacrifice for others, but I don’t really get how self-inflicted pain could. I thought we are not to seek pain but when it comes to embrace it with Christ on the Cross.
Thanks.
Gie
“But I chastise my body, and bring it into subjection: lest perhaps, when I have preached to others, I myself should become a castaway.” - 1 Corinthians 9:27

‘The way of perfection passes by way of the Cross. There is no holiness without renunciation and spiritual battle. Spiritual progress entails the ascesis and mortification that gradually lead to living in the peace and joy of the Beatitudes.’ - Catechism of the Catholic Church, 2015.

“No individual Christian can grow in perfection, nor can Christianity gain in vigor, except it be on the basis of penance. That is why in Our Apostolic Constitution officially proclaiming the Second Vatican Council and urging the faithful to make a worthy spiritual preparation for this great event by prayer and other acts of Christian virtue, we included a warning to them not to overlook the practice of voluntary mortification.” - Pope John XXIII, Paenitentiam Agere.

“What one must see in these forms of penance – which, unfortunately, our times are not accustomed to – are the motives: the love of God and the conversion of sinners.” - Pope John Paul II, Letter to Priests on Holy Thursday, no. 11, March 16, 1986.
 
You have a great deal to learn about being a catholic…
Oh really, do I? And exactly what do I need to learn then?
I suggest you start by being respectful of things you don’t understand.
What, like one whipping himslef? What is there to respect, redrosetea?
As for worrying about what Protestants might think… I frankly don’t care
Good.
 
Oh really, do I? And exactly what do I need to learn then?

Tradition church history…Your understanding of the faith seems to be very limited…and I know by your own admission you are a very new convert

The understanding and study of our faith is a life long endeavor…After all we are 2 thousand years old

I suggest you read the lives of some of the saints for a start…and learn about Church Traditions …why we do things and what we do…You might start with Where is that in the Bible…Or, where is that in Tradition. by Patrick Madrid .Catholicism for dummies is another very good book

Until you understand what a practice means it is better not to jump to conclusions about people observing them

What, like one whipping himslef? What is there to respect, redrosetea?

It is an act of mortification not abuse there is a difference…It is a long held practice of atoning for sin and offering up as, Christ was scourged…You become untited in His suffering

In an age where everything seem to scream live only for you, to heck with anything that isn’t self fulfillment ,the acts of penance and mortification shine like a good deed in a dark world

Good.
 
Zundrah, mortification has been part of Christianity since its beginning, and part of Judaism before that. It is supported in Scripture numerous times. If you believe it is disordered, what does that say about the faith as a whole?
 
Tradition church history…Your understanding of the faith seems to be very limited…and I know by your own admission you are a very new convert

The understanding and study of our faith is a life long endeavor…After all we are 2 thousand years old

I suggest you read the lives of some of the saints for a start…and learn about Church Traditions …why we do things and what we do…You might start with Where is that in the Bible…Or, where is that in Tradition. by Patrick Madrid .Catholicism for dummies is another very good book

Until you understand what a practice means it is better not to jump to conclusions about people observing them

It is an act of mortification not abuse there is a difference…It is a long held practice of atoning for sin and offering up as, Christ was scourged…You become untited in His suffering

In an age where everything seem to scream live only for you, to heck with anything that isn’t self fulfillment ,the acts of penance and mortification shine like a good deed in a dark world
Well fine, if you put it like that, then I’ll rest my case.
 
Zundrah, mortification has been part of Christianity since its beginning, and part of Judaism before that. It is supported in Scripture numerous times. If you believe it is disordered, what does that say about the faith as a whole?
But it is an odd practice, especially to someone whose never heard of anything like it!
 
I suspect there is a lot of things you have never heard of…you are quite young
 
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redrosetea:
How long have you been catholic? Have you tried this practice yourself? …would you? That is the question.
 
I have been a Catholic for almost 50 years…no I have never tried this…but many saints did it
 
I suspect there is a lot of things you have never heard of…you are quite young
How do you know my age? And yes, I’ve only been catholci for… about three months now? I’m not even comfirmed. I was methodist.
 
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