Judaism and Catholicism ... the connections or the dissociations

[OneBlanketBoss]

Hallo community,

I am a researcher who is browsing throughout the internet to find out some information on various religions starting with Judaism. The reason I selected this specific faith because as far as I know, Judaism is the first and oldest Monotheistic faith. Please correct me if I am wrong.

If you are wondering why I chose a Catholic Forum in order to find out for what I am looking for is because I believe that Catholicism or Christianity is to be believed the continuation of Judaism. If I am speaking the truth I think it’s fair to say that the Christians believe Jesus fulfilled the religion of Judaism and as result the catholic church has been born.

The Christians believe Jesus is God incarnate, also the God of the prophets in the old testament.

He is the Messiah that was to be prophesized.

The Second God Head of the Most Holy Trinity

The Only Begotten Son of God

Now I have to turn my attention to the Jews.

This is what I don’t understand and I am so eagerly searching the answers to. If Jesus was prophesied in the Old Testament, does this make Jesus what the Christians say about him? Does it not say in the Jewish scripture that God would become Man and fulfill the laws of the prophets? That a DIVINE Messiah would be born? In the Old Testament the scripture of the Hebrew Bible says “Let’s make man in OUR image” Does this not foretell the inscription of God as a Triune Deity? What about the Ultimate Sacrifice that claims that Jesus died on the Cross for the sins of mankind? Are Jews allowed to believe these things about Jesus? Or are these things against the Jewish faith?

I am sincerely asking these questions in order to help me with my journey to find the answers. Please I hope Catholics and Jews in these forums can assist me with my research and maybe we all can learn something. Because after all we are the children of the same God and are part of his family.

I am on Monday starting to read the Old Testament also known as The Hebrew Bible. If this community can be so kind can somebody inform me what books I can read that would help me better understand the Jewish faith and its scriptures. That would be MUCH appreciated.

Thank You

 

[Hatikvah]

Hello!

The reason I selected this specific faith because as far as I know, Judaism is the first and oldest Monotheistic faith. Please correct me if I am wrong.

The original oldest organized monotheistic faith is Atenism, worship of the sun disk, Aten. It was an Egyptian religion started by the High Priest-Pharaoh Akhenaten. However, that religion has long ago died off (save for revivalist groups), leaving Judaism to be the one monotheistic faith today.

If you are wondering why I chose a Catholic Forum in order to find out for what I am looking for is because I believe that Catholicism or Christianity is to be believed the continuation of Judaism.

Please keep in mind that Catholicism is merely one form of Christianity, and there are others: Protestantism, Eastern Orthodoxy, Oriental Orthodoxy, and (some would say) Restorationism. Catholicism, however, is a wise choice to learn about as it is very “set.”

The Christians believe Jesus is God incarnate, also the God of the Prophets in the Old Testament.

Yes, Jesus is the God of the Old Testament, but also of the New Testament. There is one God, we believe, and this God has revealed both, and men (prophets and apostles, respectively). Catholics go so far as to say that our God is also the god of Islam, though most other Christians reject this.

He is the Messiah that was to be prophesized… The Second God Head of the Most Holy Trinity… The Only Begotten Son of God

To understand Christianity, the Trinity is a complex part of it. Jesus is the second Person of the Godhead. The Godhead is the very essence and Being of God – there are three Persons: the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. Of course, you start with Judaism. I just want you to be aware.

This is what I don’t understand and I am so eagerly searching the answers to. If Jesus was prophesied in the Old Testament, does this make Jesus what the Christians say about him?
Does it not say in the Jewish scripture that God would become Man and fulfill the laws of the prophets?
That a DIVINE Messiah would be born?
In the Old Testament the scripture of the Hebrew Bible says “Let’s make man in OUR image”
Does this not foretell the inscription of God as a Triune Deity?
What about the Ultimate Sacrifice that claims that Jesus died on the Cross for the sins of mankind?
Are Jews allowed to believe these things about Jesus? Or are these things against the Jewish faith?

No religious Jew alive believes any of this. All Jews believe in a Unitarian Deity, and all Jews are awaiting a Messiah. There are those “Messianic Jews” who believe in a Trinitarian Deity, in Jesus Christ as Messiah, and the rest of this – but they are not Jews, they are Christians who lay claim to being Jews. The rabbis of old did not accept them. That is that.

I am sincerely asking these questions in order to help me with my journey to find the answers. Please I hope Catholics and Jews in these forums can assist me with my research and maybe we all can learn something. Because after all we are the children of the same God and are part of his family.

I hope that you will find the answers yourself and know God! That is essential in life. In fact, Jesus of Nazareth said that knowing God is eternal life:

Now this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom You have sent. (John 17:3, Berean Literal Bible)

 

[Tomdstone]

It is my understanding that Jews believe that the Messiah would be (or will be) human and not divine.

 

[StGerardMajella]

I am on Monday starting to read the Old Testament also known as The Hebrew Bible. If this community can be so kind can somebody inform me what books I can read that would help me better understand the Jewish faith and its scriptures. That would be MUCH appreciated.

Try Art Scroll Publishing. They publish Jewish religious texts, including the Hebrew Bible (“Tanach”), Jewish prayer books (“Siddur”), and numerous commentaries, including an English translation of both the Babylonian and Jerusalem Talmud. Art Scroll was designed for English-speaking Jews that want to return to the Jewish faith. They are an amazing publishing company, and their work is excellent. Please keep in mind, however, that they write from an Orthodox Jewish viewpoint.

If I had to choose three (3) books on the Catholic side, I would start with the St. Andrew’s Daily Missal, the Douay-Rheims Bible with Haydock Commentary, and the Raccolta. I would also include the Roman Breviary - You can get a copy from Baronius Press, or you can use the 4 volume Liturgy of the Hours. All are excellent resources to learn the Bible from a Catholic perspective.

 

[jcrichton]

Hallo community,

I am a researcher who is browsing throughout the internet to find out some information on various religions starting with Judaism. The reason I selected this specific faith because as far as I know, Judaism is the first and oldest Monotheistic faith. Please correct me if I am wrong.

If you are wondering why I chose a Catholic Forum in order to find out for what I am looking for is because I believe that Catholicism or Christianity is to be believed the continuation of Judaism. If I am speaking the truth I think it’s fair to say that the Christians believe Jesus fulfilled the religion of Judaism and as result the catholic church has been born.

The Christians believe Jesus is God incarnate, also the God of the prophets in the old testament.

He is the Messiah that was to be prophesized.

The Second God Head of the Most Holy Trinity

The Only Begotten Son of God

Now I have to turn my attention to the Jews.

This is what I don’t understand and I am so eagerly searching the answers to. If Jesus was prophesied in the Old Testament, does this make Jesus what the Christians say about him? Does it not say in the Jewish scripture that God would become Man and fulfill the laws of the prophets? That a DIVINE Messiah would be born? In the Old Testament the scripture of the Hebrew Bible says “Let’s make man in OUR image” Does this not foretell the inscription of God as a Triune Deity? What about the Ultimate Sacrifice that claims that Jesus died on the Cross for the sins of mankind? Are Jews allowed to believe these things about Jesus? Or are these things against the Jewish faith?

I am sincerely asking these questions in order to help me with my journey to find the answers. Please I hope Catholics and Jews in these forums can assist me with my research and maybe we all can learn something. Because after all we are the children of the same God and are part of his family.

I am on Monday starting to read the Old Testament also known as The Hebrew Bible. If this community can be so kind can somebody inform me what books I can read that would help me better understand the Jewish faith and its scriptures. That would be MUCH appreciated.

Thank You

Hi!
Welcome to the forum!

…your understanding of the Catholic Faith is correct; We Believe in Yahweh God, Who through Inspiration of the Holy Spirit (Third Person of the Holy Trinity) Revealed the Word of God; through the various Pronouncements Doctrinal matters as well as prophecies were given by God.

The Greatest Revelation is that God Himself would Be amongst His people; however, it is not fully Revealed that God would Become Incarnate. It is through the Inspiration of the Holy Spirit and through His Guidance that the Remnant of Israel would await for the Messiah (the Immanuel/Jesus = God-with-us/Savior). There are several prophecies that demonstrate the Coming of the Messiah, of these the most important are: a) Isaiah’s Suffering Servant (Isaiah 53), b) the return of Elijah (St. Matthew 11 and Malachi 3:1) and c) the Incarnation of the Word (Isaiah 7:14; 9:6; St. Matthew 1; St. Luke 1). Of course, Judaism rejects everything Christ since it does not understand the Revelations Given them by Yahweh God.

However, to understand Judaism’s rejection of Christ we must study Romans 9, 10 and 11.

Maran atha!

Angel

 

[jcrichton]

Hello!

The original oldest organized monotheistic faith is Atenism, worship of the sun disk, Aten. It was an Egyptian religion started by the High Priest-Pharaoh Akhenaten. However, that religion has long ago died off (save for revivalist groups), leaving Judaism to be the one monotheistic faith today.

Hi!
…I think you meant to say “the oldest.”

Please keep in mind that Catholicism is merely one form of Christianity, and there are others: Protestantism, Eastern Orthodoxy, Oriental Orthodoxy, and (some would say) Restorationism. Catholicism, however, is a wise choice to learn about as it is very “set.”

Yes, Jesus is the God of the Old Testament, but also of the New Testament. There is one God, we believe, and this God has revealed both, and men (prophets and apostles, respectively). Catholics go so far as to say that our God is also the god of Islam, though most other Christians reject this.

To understand Christianity, the Trinity is a complex part of it. Jesus is the second Person of the Godhead. The Godhead is the very essence and Being of God – there are three Persons: the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. Of course, you start with Judaism. I just want you to be aware.

No religious Jew alive believes any of this. All Jews believe in a Unitarian Deity, and all Jews are awaiting a Messiah. There are those “Messianic Jews” who believe in a Trinitarian Deity, in Jesus Christ as Messiah, and the rest of this – but they are not Jews, they are Christians who lay claim to being Jews. The rabbis of old did not accept them. That is that.

…again, I think you mean to say “they are not religious Jews” or are you intimating that a person born in Israel under Judaism ceases being a Jewish if he/she gives up the practice or converts into another religion?

I hope that you will find the answers yourself and know God! That is essential in life. In fact, Jesus of Nazareth said that knowing God is eternal life:

I don’t mean to knit-pick but the actual statement is:

3 Now this is eternal life: That they may know thee, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent. (St. John 17:3)

It is knowing God in all His Revelation–Jesus, the Son of God, is part of that equation: Eternal Life = Knowing God (the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit).

Maran atha!

Angel

 

[OneBlanketBoss]

Hello!

No religious Jew alive believes any of this. All Jews believe in a Unitarian Deity, and all Jews are awaiting a Messiah. There are those “Messianic Jews” who believe in a Trinitarian Deity, in Jesus Christ as Messiah, and the rest of this – but they are not Jews, they are Christians who lay claim to being Jews. The rabbis of old did not accept them. That is that.

:

Hello Community,

It was a pleasure to start this thread and spark some interesting dialog between Catholics and non- Catholics alike. Now if I may quote this part of Hatikvas message, I would like to further speak on this certain topic.

Now I don’t know if everybody on this Forum agrees, however is it true that the beliefs of the Catholic and Christian church who profess that Jesus is God Incarnate, The Second Person of the Most Holy Trinity, The Only Begotten Son of God ect. Ect. Are these doctrines that refer to Jesus in the Old Testament?

Hatikva has mentioned that no Jew alive today believes in any of this. This is where I am a bit puzzled. I have been told that that Jesus fulfilled everything that was prophesized of him in the OLD Testament. So for whatever reason, why don’t Jews accept Jesus as the divine messiah?

 

[OneBlanketBoss]

It is my understanding that Jews believe that the Messiah would be (or will be) human and not divine.

Well this was my understanding as well but I was unsure. Can anybody back up this claim? Do Jews believe that the Massiah would be only of human nature?

 

[Tomdstone]

This is where I am a bit puzzled. I have been told that that Jesus fulfilled everything that was prophesized of him in the OLD Testament. So for whatever reason, why don’t Jews accept Jesus as the divine messiah?

Because they say that these passages have been misapplied and misinterpreted.

 

[spiderweb]

I found this website which seems to be a good source for Jewish beliefs regarding the Messiah. uptojerusalem.com/topic-rabbisknow.asp

I would recommend the above link and read it in conjunction with one of the Gospels like Luke.

 

[Hatikvah]

…I think you meant to say “the oldest.”

Hi!

In a historical context, no (Atenism). But in a practical context, yes, it is the oldest monotheistic faith. I want him to beware of these “Atenist revival groups,” which are rare, but are still out there.

However, I don’t think worshiping the sun is very attractive in the 21st century…

…again, I think you mean to say “they are not religious Jews” or are you intimating that a person born in Israel under Judaism ceases being a Jewish if he/she gives up the practice or converts into another religion?l

Jews are an ethnic group (like the French, or the Irish) but also a religious group (like the Christians, or the Hindus). A person ceases to be a Jew in the religious sense if they convert, or become an agnostic or an atheist, but they are still an ethnic Jew (one cannot change their ancestry).

Messianic Judaism is not Judaism because it is not waiting for the Messiah. At best, it is its own religion; at worst, it’s some vague new category of Christianity. Evangelical Protestant organizations fund many of their churches, so… there’s that.

 

[CeelosDeznos]

I’m a Hebrew Catholic–a Roman Catholic of Sephardi Jewish ancestry–and may be able to help answer some of your questions from both a Jewish and Catholic standpoint.

If Jesus was prophesied in the Old Testament, does this make Jesus what the Christians say about him? Does it not say in the Jewish scripture that God would become Man and fulfill the laws of the prophets? That a DIVINE Messiah would be born?

Many texts from the Old Testament currently viewed by the Church as prophetic of Jesus and descriptive of his Divinity became apparent only after the Holy Spirit came upon the Christians at Pentecost. This was part of the promise of the Spirit’s ministry described by Jesus at John 16:12, to reveal things as time went on and that have been hidden even from the prophets themselves. Catholicism also acknowledges that the Epiphany in the Person Jesus of Nazareth, his Divinity and Incarnation, was only gradually understood by the Church. It was not expected by the Jews that the Messiah would be God in the Person of the Messiah, and this was not immediately evident even to the first Christians.

In the Old Testament the scripture of the Hebrew Bible says “Let’s make man in OUR image” Does this not foretell the inscription of God as a Triune Deity?

Many great teachers of the Church have interpreted Genesis 1:26 in such a theological manner, and such an understanding is in full agreement with the faith of most Christians. However, such an understanding is again based on the virtue supplied by the teaching of the Holy Spirit. It is not immediately apparent without such supernatural assistance that a straightforward reading in Genesis 1:26 automatically gives each and every reader of this text an automatic understanding that a Triune Godhead is the only possibility being mentioned here.

The “us” in Genesis 1:26 is originally in reference to two things: God speaking to the angels who were at his disposal in the creation and the royal means of speaking of oneself used even by human kings and queens in modern times, such as in the sentence: “We are not amused.” Though using plural pronouns, rulers are only speaking of themselves. But the plurality is meant to indicate that they speak of their will as the will of the people that serve them.

What about the Ultimate Sacrifice that claims that Jesus died on the Cross for the sins of mankind? Are Jews allowed to believe these things about Jesus? Or are these things against the Jewish faith?

First of all, Jews are quite autonomous when it comes to their religious convictions. There is no central head over all Jews demanding what they must or must not accept as true, religiously speaking. This is not to say that the various branches of Judaism do not make demands of adherents in what may be “believed,” but it is not the same as it is in Christianity.

That being said, most Jews would not be considered “Jewish” if they believed that Jesus’ death on the Cross has any saving value. Judaism in general does not have a concept of Original Sin and therefore there is no theological necessity for one grand sacrifice to save all mankind in Jewish religion.

Again, even the first followers did not understand this as this was hidden from the eyes of all Jewry. If the first followers of Christ (who were Jews, by the way) had such an understanding, they would have rejoiced that their Master was crucified and would have believed the reports of his Resurrection. Instead, they were mostly disheartened and practically all fled when Jesus was arrested and sent to die. They also did not believe in the original reports of Christ’s rising, and some doubted even as Christ appeared before them all. Judaism has not altered or added such details about the Messiah up to today, so there are no such teachings among them, nor is Jesus of Nazareth accepted as the Messiah by any of the branches of Judaism.

This doesn’t mean that all Jewish people hate Jesus and Christians. There has been a movement in Judaism to reclaim the New Testament as a Jewish work since (except for Luke and Acts) it was written by Jews. The NRSV’s Jewish Annotated New Testament is one example of this.

Myself, I am of Jewish ancestry. Today Catholics of Hebrew background can live with their cultural identities and customs intact, just like any other national or ethnic group in the Church can. Some of us, like the first Christians, are essentially Jewish Christians.

One last thing, Jews today differ greatly over the concept of the Messiah and what it means. While there are many promises of the Messiah in the Hebrew Bible, many of the expectations and details of the concept are part of Jewish tradition and found nowhere in the Hebrew text. This accounts for many reasons why most Jews do not accept Jesus as the Messiah promised to the children of Israel. Some Jews do not even believe the Messiah is supposed to be a person because the Hebrew Scriptures often personify the nation of Israel as an individual in poetry and in the prophets. Some Jews see the concept of the Messiah as a future era of worldwide peace for all humanity that has been personified as an individual called the Messiah in Jewish Scripture and tradition.

 

[jcrichton]

Hello Community,

It was a pleasure to start this thread and spark some interesting dialog between Catholics and non- Catholics alike. Now if I may quote this part of Hatikvas message, I would like to further speak on this certain topic.

Now I don’t know if everybody on this Forum agrees, however is it true that the beliefs of the Catholic and Christian church who profess that Jesus is God Incarnate, The Second Person of the Most Holy Trinity, The Only Begotten Son of God ect. Ect. Are these doctrines that refer to Jesus in the Old Testament?

Hatikva has mentioned that no Jew alive today believes in any of this. This is where I am a bit puzzled. I have been told that that Jesus fulfilled everything that was prophesized of him in the OLD Testament. So for whatever reason, why don’t Jews accept Jesus as the divine messiah?

Please reread my post–Romans 9 through 11 sheds the clarifying light to your query; it was necessary for the Jews (aside from the Remnant that Yahweh God selected amongst them) to not accept Jesus as the Messiah for the fulfillment of Scriptures (St. John 1:1-14; Isaiah 42:1-4; St Matthew 12:15-21) and for the Salvation of the Gentiles.

Maran atha!

Angel

 

[jcrichton]

Well this was my understanding as well but I was unsure. Can anybody back up this claim? Do Jews believe that the Massiah would be only of human nature?

…yes, that is my understanding also.

Maran atha!

Angel

 

[jcrichton]

Hi!

In a historical context, no (Atenism). But in a practical context, yes, it is the oldest monotheistic faith. I want him to beware of these “Atenist revival groups,” which are rare, but are still out there.

However, I don’t think worshiping the sun is very attractive in the 21st century…

…I concur; it is just that your previous post allowed for only the Jews being monotheistic–since there are so many takes on the Triune God (Father, Son, and Holy Spirit) I thought a little clarification was needed since the Triune God is One God; hence, Christians (both Catholics and non-Catholics) are also monotheistic.

Jews are an ethnic group (like the French, or the Irish) but also a religious group (like the Christians, or the Hindus). A person ceases to be a Jew in the religious sense if they convert, or become an agnostic or an atheist, but they are still an ethnic Jew (one cannot change their ancestry).

…in deed; though I’ve heard it said that “those Catholics” wrote those books that are not inspired, and “no Jews Believed in Christ…” I suspect that there is some movement to rationalize the early Church Jews as non-Jews–just a bunch of foreigners that stirred up trouble…

Messianic Judaism is not Judaism because it is not waiting for the Messiah. At best, it is its own religion; at worst, it’s some vague new category of Christianity. Evangelical Protestant organizations fund many of their churches, so… there’s that.

…again, not picking on you… why would it be “best” vs. “worst?” They did not cease being Jews only religious Jews; while I know only their title (Messianic Jews), less they reject Christianity, why would they be a “vague” category? If you have knowledge of their faith base, could you open a thread to share?

Thank you!

Maran atha!

Angel

 

[OneBlanketBoss]

I’m a Hebrew Catholic–a Roman Catholic of Sephardi Jewish ancestry–and may be able to help answer some of your questions from both a Jewish and Catholic standpoint.

Many texts from the Old Testament currently viewed by the Church as prophetic of Jesus and descriptive of his Divinity became apparent only after the Holy Spirit came upon the Christians at Pentecost. This was part of the promise of the Spirit’s ministry described by Jesus at John 16:12, to reveal things as time went on and that have been hidden even from the prophets themselves. Catholicism also acknowledges that the Epiphany in the Person Jesus of Nazareth, his Divinity and Incarnation, was only gradually understood by the Church. It was not expected by the Jews that the Messiah would be God in the Person of the Messiah, and this was not immediately evident even to the first Christians.

Many great teachers of the Church have interpreted Genesis 1:26 in such a theological manner, and such an understanding is in full agreement with the faith of most Christians. However, such an understanding is again based on the virtue supplied by the teaching of the Holy Spirit. It is not immediately apparent without such supernatural assistance that a straightforward reading in Genesis 1:26 automatically gives each and every reader of this text an automatic understanding that a Triune Godhead is the only possibility being mentioned here.

The “us” in Genesis 1:26 is originally in reference to two things: God speaking to the angels who were at his disposal in the creation and the royal means of speaking of oneself used even by human kings and queens in modern times, such as in the sentence: “We are not amused.” Though using plural pronouns, rulers are only speaking of themselves. But the plurality is meant to indicate that they speak of their will as the will of the people that serve them.

First of all, Jews are quite autonomous when it comes to their religious convictions. There is no central head over all Jews demanding what they must or must not accept as true, religiously speaking. This is not to say that the various branches of Judaism do not make demands of adherents in what may be “believed,” but it is not the same as it is in Christianity.

That being said, most Jews would not be considered “Jewish” if they believed that Jesus’ death on the Cross has any saving value. Judaism in general does not have a concept of Original Sin and therefore there is no theological necessity for one grand sacrifice to save all mankind in Jewish religion.

Again, even the first followers did not understand this as this was hidden from the eyes of all Jewry. If the first followers of Christ (who were Jews, by the way) had such an understanding, they would have rejoiced that their Master was crucified and would have believed the reports of his Resurrection. Instead, they were mostly disheartened and practically all fled when Jesus was arrested and sent to die. They also did not believe in the original reports of Christ’s rising, and some doubted even as Christ appeared before them all. Judaism has not altered or added such details about the Messiah up to today, so there are no such teachings among them, nor is Jesus of Nazareth accepted as the Messiah by any of the branches of Judaism.

This doesn’t mean that all Jewish people hate Jesus and Christians. There has been a movement in Judaism to reclaim the New Testament as a Jewish work since (except for Luke and Acts) it was written by Jews. The NRSV’s Jewish Annotated New Testament is one example of this.

Myself, I am of Jewish ancestry. Today Catholics of Hebrew background can live with their cultural identities and customs intact, just like any other national or ethnic group in the Church can. Some of us, like the first Christians, are essentially Jewish Christians.

One last thing, Jews today differ greatly over the concept of the Messiah and what it means. While there are many promises of the Messiah in the Hebrew Bible, many of the expectations and details of the concept are part of Jewish tradition and found nowhere in the Hebrew text. This accounts for many reasons why most Jews do not accept Jesus as the Messiah promised to the children of Israel. Some Jews do not even believe the Messiah is supposed to be a person because the Hebrew Scriptures often personify the nation of Israel as an individual in poetry and in the prophets. Some Jews see the concept of the Messiah as a future era of worldwide peace for all humanity that has been personified as an individual called the Messiah in Jewish Scripture and tradition.

Thank you so much!

As far everybody who contributed in answering my questions I am quite thankful for that. I am very excited in participating in these threads and looking forward to what I might learn next.

 

[jcrichton]

I’m a Hebrew Catholic–a Roman Catholic of Sephardi Jewish ancestry–and may be able to help answer some of your questions from both a Jewish and Catholic standpoint.

Many texts from the Old Testament currently viewed by the Church as prophetic of Jesus and descriptive of his Divinity became apparent only after the Holy Spirit came upon the Christians at Pentecost. This was part of the promise of the Spirit’s ministry described by Jesus at John 16:12, to reveal things as time went on and that have been hidden even from the prophets themselves. Catholicism also acknowledges that the Epiphany in the Person Jesus of Nazareth, his Divinity and Incarnation, was only gradually understood by the Church. It was not expected by the Jews that the Messiah would be God in the Person of the Messiah, and this was not immediately evident even to the first Christians.

Many great teachers of the Church have interpreted Genesis 1:26 in such a theological manner, and such an understanding is in full agreement with the faith of most Christians. However, such an understanding is again based on the virtue supplied by the teaching of the Holy Spirit. It is not immediately apparent without such supernatural assistance that a straightforward reading in Genesis 1:26 automatically gives each and every reader of this text an automatic understanding that a Triune Godhead is the only possibility being mentioned here.

The “us” in Genesis 1:26 is originally in reference to two things: God speaking to the angels who were at his disposal in the creation and the royal means of speaking of oneself used even by human kings and queens in modern times, such as in the sentence: “We are not amused.” Though using plural pronouns, rulers are only speaking of themselves. But the plurality is meant to indicate that they speak of their will as the will of the people that serve them.

First of all, Jews are quite autonomous when it comes to their religious convictions. There is no central head over all Jews demanding what they must or must not accept as true, religiously speaking. This is not to say that the various branches of Judaism do not make demands of adherents in what may be “believed,” but it is not the same as it is in Christianity.

That being said, most Jews would not be considered “Jewish” if they believed that Jesus’ death on the Cross has any saving value. Judaism in general does not have a concept of Original Sin and therefore there is no theological necessity for one grand sacrifice to save all mankind in Jewish religion.

Again, even the first followers did not understand this as this was hidden from the eyes of all Jewry. If the first followers of Christ (who were Jews, by the way) had such an understanding, they would have rejoiced that their Master was crucified and would have believed the reports of his Resurrection. Instead, they were mostly disheartened and practically all fled when Jesus was arrested and sent to die. They also did not believe in the original reports of Christ’s rising, and some doubted even as Christ appeared before them all. Judaism has not altered or added such details about the Messiah up to today, so there are no such teachings among them, nor is Jesus of Nazareth accepted as the Messiah by any of the branches of Judaism.

This doesn’t mean that all Jewish people hate Jesus and Christians. There has been a movement in Judaism to reclaim the New Testament as a Jewish work since (except for Luke and Acts) it was written by Jews. The NRSV’s Jewish Annotated New Testament is one example of this.

Myself, I am of Jewish ancestry. Today Catholics of Hebrew background can live with their cultural identities and customs intact, just like any other national or ethnic group in the Church can. Some of us, like the first Christians, are essentially Jewish Christians.

One last thing, Jews today differ greatly over the concept of the Messiah and what it means. While there are many promises of the Messiah in the Hebrew Bible, many of the expectations and details of the concept are part of Jewish tradition and found nowhere in the Hebrew text. This accounts for many reasons why most Jews do not accept Jesus as the Messiah promised to the children of Israel. Some Jews do not even believe the Messiah is supposed to be a person because the Hebrew Scriptures often personify the nation of Israel as an individual in poetry and in the prophets. Some Jews see the concept of the Messiah as a future era of worldwide peace for all humanity that has been personified as an individual called the Messiah in Jewish Scripture and tradition.

Hi!
Welcome to the forum! :extrahappy::extrahappy::extrahappy:

…a much needed and received perspective!

There has been a movement in Judaism to reclaim the New Testament as a Jewish work since (except for Luke and Acts) it was written by Jews. **The NRSV’s **Jewish Annotated New Testament is one example of this.

Can you expand on this… is it found on-line?

Maran atha!

Angel

 

[jcrichton]

Thank you so much!

As far everybody who contributed in answering my questions I am quite thankful for that. I am very excited in participating in these threads and looking forward to what I might learn next.

Hi!
…we are in this together; we learn as we study and from good exegesis/presentations.

Maran atha!

Angel

 

[CeelosDeznos]

OBB also asked: We “have been told that that Jesus fulfilled everything that was prophesized of him in the OLD Testament. So for whatever reason, why don’t Jews accept Jesus as the divine messiah? Do Jews believe that the [sic] Massiah would be only of human nature?”

The Catholic Church does indeed believe that Jesus fulfilled everything that was prophesied in the Old Testament about the Messiah, but it also recognizes that the Jews and not even the prophets were aware of each and every prophecy in Scripture.

According to the document, “The Jewish People and their Sacred Scriptures in the Christian Bible,” the idea that the prophecies about Jesus are plain for all to see in the Old Testament is not a Catholic one:

“Christian faith recognises the fulfilment, in Christ, of the Scriptures and the hopes of Israel, but it does not understand this fulfilment as a literal one….Jesus is not confined to playing an already fixed role — that of Messiah — but he confers, on the notions of Messiah and salvation, a fullness which could not have been imagined in advance….It would be wrong to consider the prophecies of the Old Testament as some kind of photographic anticipations of future events. All the texts, including those which later were read as messianic prophecies, already had an immediate import and meaning for their contemporaries before attaining a fuller meaning for future hearers. The messiahship of Jesus has a meaning that is new and original.”–II:A:5.21.2.

Those points in particular, that the fullness of the role of the Messiah in Jesus “could not have been imagine in advance,” and that “it would be wrong to consider the prophecies of the Old Testament as some kind of photographic anticipation of future events,” are very important.

It was not immediately clear to the first followers of Jesus, let alone the Jewish nation, that the Messiah was to suffer and rise and thereby bring salvation from Original Sin. This understanding came not through reading the Hebrew Scriptures in advance and knowing what to look for in the Messiah, but hearing what the actual Messiah taught about his real purpose for coming. Note how Jesus had to explain this even to his own followers after he rose from the dead at Luke 24:25-27 and 44-47.

These texts explain that following Jesus, especially after the Resurrection, was essential to understanding the texts of the Hebrew Scriptures that apply to Jesus as the Messiah. Without listening to Jesus, no reader could understand exactly what these prophecies meant or even where some of them were. Jesus the Messiah “opened their minds to understand the Scriptures,” says Luke 24:45.

As the Church teaches, no one who does not follow Jesus can fully understand or even see the multifaceted plan God had fulfilled in Christ. One cannot merely ask: “How could the Jews not see that Jesus’ fulfilled these texts?” as the Church itself teaches (as noted in the above document and others from the Vatican on this very subject), such an understanding is not possible by mere human means, especially regarding Jesus’ divinity.

“As it is written: Eye has not seen, ear has not heard, nor has the human heart imagined what God has prepared for those who love him.”–1 Corinthians 2:9.

And the NRSV Jewish Annotated New Testament can be found for purchase at Amazon.

 

[Hatikvah]

…I concur; it is just that your previous post allowed for only the Jews being monotheistic–since there are so many takes on the Triune God (Father, Son, and Holy Spirit) I thought a little clarification was needed since the Triune God is One God; hence, Christians (both Catholics and non-Catholics) are also monotheistic.
…in deed; though I’ve heard it said that “those Catholics” wrote those books that are not inspired, and “no Jews Believed in Christ…” I suspect that there is some movement to rationalize the early Church Jews as non-Jews–just a bunch of foreigners that stirred up trouble…

Of course, Christianity is monotheistic (otherwise, I guess I’d be calling myself a polytheist, which is not true). Well, I’m not sure about “‘those Catholics’” writing any sort of uninspired books or anything. There are many outsider movements that try, or have tried, to revive a sort of Christian practice closer to Judaism (such as the Christadelphians) which they think “fits” in with the early Church.

…again, not picking on you… why would it be “best” vs. “worst?” They did not cease being Jews only religious Jews; while I know only their title (Messianic Jews), less they reject Christianity, why would they be a “vague” category? If you have knowledge of their faith base, could you open a thread to share?

It’s not really “best” or “worst.” I merely utilized that to say that it can be either end of a spectrum – Christianity or some place outside of it yet not within Judaism. The theology seems to be closer to some Protestants, like how they utilize sola scriptura and some other stuff that doesn’t seem to fit with Judaism (most Jewish groups use the Talmud and other things that might be analogous to Tradition).

I do not have all that much knowledge because there are some diverse groups within Messianic Judaism. You have groups that are pretty much Protestant but for some reason follow the ceremonial laws of the Torah to groups that are sort of like “Arianism-Judaism” (like the House of Yahweh).

It is vague because it is diverse, much like new religious movements or like neopaganism.