Judaism/Christianity #2

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Isa Almisry;:
your remarks are so self evident that the NT is confection (candy) and only pious fiction
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For Orthodox Judaism, it is self-evident that the NT is confection – pious fiction.

xan

jonathon
 
jblake said:
For Orthodox Judaism, it is self-evident that the NT is confection – pious fiction.
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Yes, we have seen that assertion already.

The OP, not being an Orthodox Jew (or any Jew, as far as I know), was asking why that was, not a restatement.

I’ve seen Orthodox Jews who thought it self evident that Reform Judaism was candy (a confection, if you prefer), a pious fiction (or not so pious, impious even). Zionism too.

What’s the difference there?
 
Isa_Almisry said:
I’ve seen Orthodox Jews who thought it self evident that Reform Judaism was candy (a confection, if you prefer), a pious fiction (or not so pious, impious even). Zionism too.

What’s the difference there?
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**
Difference?
Comparision of NT with Reform Judaism. Two different “species”. lol**
 
Isa Almisry;:
What’s the difference there?
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When one is buried in the dogma of one’s alleged faith, one does not have the ability to view that dogma from the opposite position.

For an Orthodox Jew, there are no points of contact between the Tanakh and the New Testament. None at all. That lack of contact is why it is so self-evident to the Orthodox Jew, that the NT is confection.

Likewise, from the Orthodox Jewish perspective, there are no points of contact between Reform Judaism and Orthodox Judaism. The sole reason that Orthodox Jews can recite a litany of problems with Reform Jews, is that Reform Jews, from the POV of Orthodox Jews, masquerade as being Jewish.(That litany of complaints starts with the inability to keep kosher, and ends with the inability to pray correctly.)

xan

jonathon
 
rationally said:
**
Difference?
Comparision of NT with Reform Judaism. Two different “species”. lol**
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How so?

I’ve known many Orthodox Jews who accept me as a Jew because of my maternal Jewish grandmother, despite my (and her) baptism, over the Orthodox Jews whose mother was a gentile.
 
Who did the Holy Spirit proceed from, in the triune divinity?
That debate has been going on for just under a thousand years?
I should think that a discussion of uncreated light, would be of
interest, among the Christian churches.
Imputed rigtheousness, or ontological change - in baptism? Works necessary, or no?
What are we being saved from, again? http://bestsmileys.com/nono/9.gif
Original sin? Inherited from Adam? We need to be saved from this ontological sin?
Everyone is really saved through Jesus, even if they don’t know it?
How many sacraments are there? Who’s the leader of Christianity? Who speaks for Jesus? Who was Gregory Palamas? Didn’t he have something to do with the Quietism controversy?
Is each patriarch autocephalous?
Is that like Ubi Petrus, ibi ecclesia? What about primus inter pares? I forget.
You, personally, don’t accept sola scriptura?
Oh. That’s right. The earlier ecclesial entities do not accept
the solas. Don’t you have creeds, in Christianity? Do all
Christians share a given creed? Why not?

In terms of the Christian churches, I’m partial to the evangelicals.
They inspire me, with their faith in Jesus.
Like the early Christians, they really do think that Jesus is
a God/man - who brings good news - and they are hopping on flights,
to Central America, spreading this good news. My hat’s off to them. :tiphat:

While Catholicism and Orthodoxy continue on their way,
offering a sacramental system, here’s the evangelicals,
smiling pleasantly - at the claims of the elder ecclesial entities -
then zooming around the globe, telling people of Jesus,
and how he saves. It’s inspiring. Saul of Tarsus would
have been proud. http://bestsmileys.com/nono/9.gif

reen12
 
jblake said:
When one is buried in the dogma of one’s alleged faith, one does not have the ability to view that dogma from the opposite position.

For an Orthodox Jew, there are no points of contact between the Tanakh and the New Testament. None at all. That lack of contact is why it is so self-evident to the Orthodox Jew, that the NT is confection.

Likewise, from the Orthodox Jewish perspective, there are no points of contact between Reform Judaism and Orthodox Judaism. The sole reason that Orthodox Jews can recite a litany of problems with Reform Jews, is that Reform Jews, from the POV of Orthodox Jews, masquerade as being Jewish.(That litany of complaints starts with the inability to keep kosher, and ends with the inability to pray correctly.)

xan

jonathon
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See, Hasenpfeffer, this is an attempt at an answer. That’s all we ask.
 
In terms of Judaism/Christianity, there is a Christian saint who
reminds me of Reb Zusia. Reb Zusia was known as the Fool of God.
Zusia was a Hasid. He is my favorite human being from the past.

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Zusia reminds me of Francis of Assisi.
A similar childlike heart, I think, in both men.

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Then there was Staretz Silouan. He lived in the woods,
for a period of time, and a bear would come by, to be fed by
Staretz Silouan.

(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)

reen12
 
Isa_Almisry said:
Me thinks the rabbit doth protest too much.

Before wasting more time in a spiral of personal posts, let’s point out that either 1) your remarks are so self evident that the NT is confection (candy) and only pious fiction, and I lack the intelligence to see that, or 2) you made some remarks, not expecting to have to defend them, and having been called on them, you are at a loss to substantiate them.

I leave it to the readers to decide which.
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Oh, I have absolutely no problem with readers having seen such blatant examples of ‘attack the poster, not the post’, misdirection and disinformation.

Fortunately, or unfortunately, in future I won’t even know whether you have anything vaguely sensible to say.
 
I would share a story, of Reb Zusia.
Each morning, Reb Zusia rose and said the
morning prayers. Some mornings, Reb Zusia
would become swept up, in the presence of Hashem.
He would lose track of time.
When Zusia finally finished the morning prayers,
he would call out to Hashem, from the window:

“Hashem, Zusia is hungry and needs something
to eat.”

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When the man who made Reb Zusia’s meal
heard the Reb calling out to Hashem, for sustenence,
each morning, he would know that the Reb was
now ready to have breakfast, and he would bring
in the meal.
One day, this man got tired of hearing Reb Zusia
ask God for some food. Wasn’t he the one who made
the meal and brought it to the Reb?
On this particular morning, the man decided not to
bring the Reb breakfast. Let Reb Zusia learn who really
provided this meal.

The day before - a well to do visitor, to the town, had seen Zusia
trying to cross the sea of mud that claimed to be a street.
Zusia had started to cross on the plank provided,
and when the stranger saw this painfully thin, toothless,
shabbily dressed man, he decided to give the Reb a hard time -
for the visitor’s own sense of amusement.

The man jumped up and down on the far end of the plank,
and Zusia lost his balance, and landed in the mud.
This visitor to town was still laughing, when he
entered the inn. The innkeeper asked him what
he was laughing about, so the man told him.
When the innkeeper asked the visitor to describe
the one he had sent flying - and when he heard the description,
the innkeeper cried out:
*“That was Reb Zusia!” *

The stranger became ashen-faced with upset.
He had heard that Reb Zusia was holy man - a tzaddik.
Everyone knew this.
How could the visitor ever make this right?
The innkeeper offered help. He told the man about Zusia’s practice
of crying out his window, each morning:
“Hashem, Zusia is hungry and needs something to eat.”

Now the stranger knew what to do.

The next morning, when Reb Zusia cried out the window -
and the man who always served the Reb his breakfast refused to budge -
the stranger brought breakfast to the Reb.

God took very good care of His Zusia.
reen12
 
I think that it facilitates a comprehension
of the faith beliefs of another, if one considers
the stories told - of those who are held in high regard
by members of a given faith.
One day, in a small town in Poland,
an itinerant preacher came to town.
He stood in the busiest part of the village,
and he began to cry out to the people - of the
punishments, that God had prepared,
for those who followed not Torah - or who
were not whole-hearted - in their observation
of God’s law for His people.

i10.photobucket.com/albums/a1…eted992008.jpg

With stricken looks and pale faces, the
people listened to him, and said nothing.
Quietly, they began to disperse
.
“Wait!” came a voice, from the edge of the
crowd.

The people stopped for a moment, and looked back.

“God loves you! He is patient with all.” came the loving voice.
“Could we not thank Him - for His goodness and kindness to us,
by observing His law?”

i10.photobucket.com/albums/a1…standing-1.jpg

The people, each of them, began to brighten,
at these words.

Reb Zusia, the speaker, was now in quiet conversation
with the itinerant preacher.
“I told them what awaited. I did this for their own good!” said the preacher.
“Why did they not listen? Why did they turn away?”

“Your words terrorized them, and their hearts became frozen, in their fear,” said Reb Zusia.
“My words warmed and cheered their hearts - as they thought of the love of HaShem.”

"Each heart, comforted - said:

“How can HaShem love us, and we not love Him, too, by keeping His law?”
reen12
 
Kaninchen said:
Oh, I have absolutely no problem with readers having seen such blatant examples of ‘attack the poster, not the post’, misdirection and disinformation.
Click to expand...
Pointing out the poster is dodging the question is not attacking the poster.
Fortunately, or unfortunately, in future I won’t even know whether you have anything vaguely sensible to say.
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As a rule I put comments without backing into the “Discard” pile.
jblake said:
When one is buried in the dogma of one’s alleged faith, one does not have the ability to view that dogma from the opposite position.
Click to expand...
Kaninchen said:
So true, so very true.
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Yes, isn’t it?
 
Judaism/Christianity. The scriptures.

From the psalms.

Lord, my heart is not proud; nor are my eyes haughty.
I do not busy myself with great matters, with things too sublime for me.
Rather, I have stilled my soul, hushed it…

How good it is…how pleasant, where the people dwell as one.
Like precious ointment on the head, running down…the beard of Aaron…
Like dew of Hermon coming down upon the mountains of Zion.
There the Lord has lavished blessings, life for evermore.

As I have loved you, so you also should love one another.
This is how all will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another. -Jesus of Nazareth

I have failed badly, at times, to speak to others with respect.
I should have kept in mind that God made man in His
own image and likeness.

When I speak to another, without respect, I fail - literally - to see
that person, in some critical sense.
res spectare - ‘to see the thing.’ In this instance, another human being, made in His image and likeness.

When I speak to others - as I have done, on occassion - with a lack of respect, indulging in sarcasm or parody, I am then swallowed, in a sense, by my own lack of charity - like Jonah was swallowed, by the big fish.

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In my self-created inner darkness, at these times, I think of how Jonah
must have felt, inside this big fish. If I cry out to God, as did
Jonah, maybe He will listen, and have mercy, as He did on Jonah.

reen12
 
Judaism/Christianity. The scriptures. A reflection.

From the psalms.

Lord, my heart is not proud; nor are my eyes haughty.
I do not busy myself with great matters, with things too sublime for me.
Rather, I have stilled my soul, hushed it…

How good it is…how pleasant, where the people dwell as one.
Like precious ointment on the head, running down…the beard of Aaron…
Like dew of Hermon coming down upon the mountains of Zion.
There the Lord has lavished blessings, life for evermore.

As I have loved you, so you also should love one another.
This is how all will know that you are my disciples,
if you have love for one another. -Jesus of Nazareth

I have failed badly, at times, to speak to others with respect.
I should have kept in mind that God made man in His
own image and likeness.

When I speak to another, without respect, I fail - literally - to see
that person, in some critical sense. res spectare - ‘to see the thing.’
In this instance - another human being, made in His image and likeness.

When I speak to others - as I have done, on occassion - with a lack of respect,
indulging in sarcasm or parody, I feel ‘swallowed up,’ in a sense,
by my own lack of charity - like Jonah was swallowed, by the big fish.

(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)

In my self-created inner darkness, at these times, I think of how Jonah
must have felt, inside the big fish. If I cry out to God, as did Jonah,
maybe He will listen, and have mercy on me, as He did on Jonah.

reen12
 
Kaninchen said:
It’s not a case of ‘specific’ examples when one doesn’t accept any of it.

To you, the New Testament is ‘reportage’, to me it’s merely ‘confection’ - in the same sense that the Book of Mormon is to you.
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I read the New Testament as a historical narrative of reliable truth.
 
There is a considerable difference, I think, between asking another
what are his/her beliefs, seeking clarity - with a view toward
greater understanding, and an increased comprehension of another’s beliefs -
or asking same, with a view toward challenging those beliefs
that differ from those of one’s own faith.

Christians are told, by Jesus, to go preach the gospel to all nations.
This is held to be a work of great moment, done in fulfilling the command of Jesus:

Go, therefore, and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them
in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the holy Spirit,
teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you… [Matt.28]

Yet that faith - which is acknowledged as the parent faith, of Christianity,
has no similar mandate.
They are His chosen people, and they are to lead, by example,
not at all seeking converts.

Thus says the Lord of hosts: In those days ten men of every nationality,
speaking different tongues, shall take hold, yes, take hold of every Jew by
the edge of his garment and say,
“Let us go with you, for we have heard that God is with you.” Zechariah 8: 23.

Those who accept Jesus as God/man, savior, may be puzzled by these
words of Zechariah. Yet there are Gentiles who are not at all
puzzled by these words. These words speak their own hearts.

reen12
 
Kaninchen said:
It’s not a case of ‘specific’ examples when one doesn’t accept any of it.

To you, the New Testament is ‘reportage’, to me it’s merely ‘confection’ - in the same sense that the Book of Mormon is to you.
Click to expand...
Sorry I land into this thread this late and ask this question only now…
What are the stories in the Torah to you, Kaninchen? “Reportages” or “confection”… or maybe something else?
 
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