Judaism / Christianity

[Isa_Almisry]

That Isaiah verse is not a proof at all.

Problem your cut and paste site has: the Jews accepted the Septuagint as divinely inspired until the Church proved too skillful at using it at converting. That, however, was centuries after Christ that they came up with the Masoretic text. The Septuagint “parthenos” only means virgin (which means a problem if she was Ahaz’s wife, as your site says). That was the meaning of the majority text at the time of Christ’s birth.

The discovery of the Dead Sea Scrolls and other Hebrew fragments have bolstered the primacy of the LXX text.

Your pasted site is riddled with factual errors: for one, the idea that the LXX was never used by religious Jews. For one the brilliant Jewish scholar Philo used it. And we have had reference to the “Letter of Aristeas,” which shows the religious Jews thought it divine. The Talmud itself speaks of the LXX as the fulfillment of Japheth living in the tents of Shem.

 

[aaronjo]

Problem your cut and paste site has: the Jews accepted the Septuagint as divinely inspired until the Church proved too skillful at using it at converting. .

But even if we accept that the Septuagint was originally written with the word “parthenos,” and that the Rabbis meant to translate it as “virgin” (which makes no sense), how does that explain what the Christians did to the rest of the passage? Even if it does mean virgin, how did the Messiah get into this prophecy? And how did a prophecy that clearly refers to a contemporary event get applied to an event 600 or 700 years later? There is no logic to this so-called "proof."

 

[Isa_Almisry]

aaronjo:
As I have shown, your pasted site makes numerous factual errors, that I can’ t trust their “logic” or judgments on it.

Besides, aarnojo, as a Muslim you are supposed to believe in the Virgin Birth.

I also think I linked on this thread a link to a thread where I posted from a Jewish site that cites the Talmud etc. as saying the Christians were so successful in converting the Jews, that they had to plant a double agent, Saul, to stem it. Contradicts your site.

 

[reen12]

As to the virgin birth -

outreachjudaism.org/virgin.html#1

reen12

 

[aaronjo]

As I have shown, your pasted site makes numerous factual errors, that I can’ t trust their “logic” or judgments on it.

I don’t see any such 'factual errors".

You don’t have to trust their ‘logic’. Logic is not for trust like a trust in any blind faith.

Logic is to see whether it makes sense if ponder. To me this site’s logic makes sense.

 

[aaronjo]

I also think I linked on this thread a link to a thread where I posted from a Jewish site that cites the Talmud etc. as saying the Christians were so successful in converting the Jews, that they had to plant a double agent, Saul, to stem it. Contradicts your site.

I don’t care what the other site your referring to teaches you.

BTW, do you agree with all contents of that Jewish site you are referring to? OR you agree just what you think somehow “strengthening” your postion on Virgin Birth issue?

Now I am sure you will be guilty of using false analogy.

 

[Isa_Almisry]

I don’t see any such 'factual errors".

You don’t have to trust their ‘logic’. Logic is not for trust like a trust in any blind faith.

Logic is to see whether it makes sense if ponder. To me this site’s logic makes sense.

The mariginalization of the Septuagint is a factual error. The Dead Sea Scrolls supports its text. The Letter of Ariesteas shows that the Hebrews before Christ accepted it as the inspired text. The Talmud even praises it.etc.

I know you don’t see factual errors. You won’t, cutting and pasting.

An argument is only as strong as its weakest link. And a number of links in your site are not just weak, they are broke.

And we’ve seen enough of your “reasoning” enough to doubt anything you find “logical.”

 

[Isa_Almisry]

I don’t care what the other site your referring to teaches you.

BTW, do you agree with all contents of that Jewish site you are referring to? OR you agree just what you think somehow “strengthening” your postion on Virgin Birth issue?

Now I am sure you will be guilty of using false analogy.

That you cite sites that you yourself, as a Muslim, do not believe?

I am just citing what Jews are saying, which is more than can be said for the Quran.

 

[aaronjo]

Do you know that some Catholic writers [too] have sought a preliminary and partial fulfillment in the conception and birth of the future King Hezekiah, whose mother, at the time Isaiah spoke, would have been a young, unmarried woman (Hebrew, almah)?

 

[Isa_Almisry]

Do you know that some Catholic writers [too] have sought a preliminary and partial fulfillment in the conception and birth of the future King Hezekiah, whose mother, at the time Isaiah spoke, would have been a young, unmarried woman (Hebrew, almah)?

Where did you cut and paste this from?

 

[Angelos]

I don’t care what the other site your referring to teaches you.

BTW, do you agree with all contents of that Jewish site you are referring to? OR you agree just what you think somehow “strengthening” your postion on Virgin Birth issue?

Now I am sure you will be guilty of using false analogy.

Now it is finally time for me to question you, my dear moderate Jewish friend, on God’s promises to Abraham.

As “a moderate Jew”, how do you handle the Islamic allegations in the Koran? Which of his two sons do you think G-d asked Abraham to offer as a holocaust? Isaac or Ishmael? Why?

How do you evaluate the Islamic allegations in the Koran that Abraham went to Mecca and founded the pagan temple (Islamic idol) with Ishmael?

How do you interpret the fact that the authors of the Koran never talked of Ishmael’s mother Hagar? Do you agree with us Christians that Hagar was not mentioned in the Koran because pagan Mohammad was ashamed of her status as a slave?

 

[inJESUS]

Do I need be a Democrat, to assess their platform - in terms
of plans for the economy? :coffeeread:

Let’s take a look at Christian theology’s ‘economy of salvation.’

ok i see you reject Jesus because of “original sin” and “saviour” title something not created by Christians but Jews, anyway.

I am not asking why you reject Him. I am asking if you believe Jesus existed, was crucified and resurrected…agreeing or not with the theological arguments is a different story.

 

[KenEOTE]

Why via Synagogues? Why not followers of The Way started their own Churches?

Because they didn’t they went via Synagogues. I am just telling you what they did not why they did it. They did not reject their Jewish heritage. It wasn’t till much later that they started to meet in caves and then eventually built their own churches.

They left the Synagogues because of the fear of persecution. Not so much from the Jews but the Romans. Traditional Judaism was more excepted by the Romans then The Way. Not to say that the Romans didn’t also persecute the Jews they did. I am just telling you what History shows us. I was not there so I can not tell you exactly what was said and why they thought what they thought.

 

[Isa_Almisry]

Because they didn’t they went via Synagogues. I am just telling you what they did not why they did it. They did not reject their Jewish heritage. It wasn’t till much later that they started to meet in caves and then eventually built their own churches.

They left the Synagogues because of the fear of persecution. Not so much from the Jews but the Romans. Traditional Judaism was more excepted by the Romans then The Way. Not to say that the Romans didn’t also persecute the Jews they did. I am just telling you what History shows us. I was not there so I can not tell you exactly what was said and why they thought what they thought.

Actually the rabbis inserted in their Creed (Amidah, said 3x a day and in the synagogue) a curse against the Hebrew Christians (minim), the idea that the Christians wouldn’t come and curse themselves. That’s when the Christians had to set up their own synagogues.

 

[Rachel_Malloy]

Please continue to remain on topic or this thread will be closed.

God bless-

Rachel

 

[KenEOTE]

Please continue to remain on topic or this thread will be closed.

God bless-

Rachel

Thanks we will do our best

 

[aaronjo]

Because they didn’t they went via Synagogues. I am just telling you what they did not why they did it. They did not reject their Jewish heritage. .

They did not reject their Jewish heritage? If so then they indeed were not Catholic, as Catholics have been killing Jews for centuries because in their mind, Jews killed Christians’ God-Man.

Were Jews really that much strong to kill your mighty Christian God-man?

 

[aaronjo]

Now it is finally time for me to question you, my dear moderate Jewish friend, on God’s promises to Abraham.

As “a moderate Jew”, how do you handle the Islamic allegations in the Koran? Which of his two sons do you think G-d asked Abraham to offer as a holocaust? Isaac or Ishmael? Why?

How do you evaluate the Islamic allegations in the Koran that Abraham went to Mecca and founded the pagan temple (Islamic idol) with Ishmael?

How do you interpret the fact that the authors of the Koran never talked of Ishmael’s mother Hagar? Do you agree with us Christians that Hagar was not mentioned in the Koran because pagan Mohammad was ashamed of her status as a slave?

This thread is about Judaism/Christainity, not about Judaism/Islamic religion.

If you are troubled by Islamic religion’s stance/allegations towards Jews or Christians, open a new thread by yourself and invite Moslems to respond you, as I am not an expert in their theology or history.

I am not even an expert in my Jewish theology hence I am a moderate Jew, not a fundamentalist rigid Jew.

 

[KenEOTE]

They did not reject their Jewish heritage? If so then they indeed were not Catholic, as Catholics have been killing Jews for centuries because in their mind, Jews killed Christians’ God-Man.

Were Jews really that much strong to kill your mighty Christian God-man?

Right the First Century Church did not reject Judaism. Paul did not reject his Jewish Heritage either. He often stated he was a Jew among Jews. IT was much later that the Christians and Jews began to part ways. Which was unfortunate.
One thing I do respect about the Catholic Church is that when building their churches they based them off of the Jewish Temple. You have the Altar, and the holy of holies. If you do some research you will see that.
Another great thing is many Christians are now coming back to the Jewish roots of their faith and understanding what Christ did. When you begin to study the feast days that God declared in the Old Testament you begin to see a beautiful love story that came into fulfillment in Jesus. Unlike Allah the God of the Bible was very personal and desires a personal relationship with his creation. Now onto your other misguided point.

The Jews did not Kill Christ. He willingly died for our sins.

Also it was The Romans who crucified Jesus. The Cross was a Roman means of execution.

Jesus came to this earth in order to save us, and pay the penalty of our sins.
Even in the desert when Satan tried to tempt Jesus he knew that Jesus could call down a legion of Angels to protect him.
Lastly Jesus did not stay Dead, he rose from the dead conquering both death and sin.

 

[KenEOTE]

This thread is about Judaism/Christainity, not about Judaism/Islamic religion.

If you are troubled by Islamic religion’s stance/allegations towards Jews or Christians, open a new thread by yourself and invite Moslems to respond you, as I am not an expert in their theology or history.

I am not even an expert in my Jewish theology hence I am a moderate Jew, not a fundamentalist rigid Jew.

Since you claim to not be an expert in your own theology perhaps you should not attack ours so much. As your attacks make other “moderate” Jews look foolish.

If I were you I would keep my postings to questions and refrain from allegations or pretending to know or understand the Christian Theology. Perhaps you should take some time to study your own beliefs and then come back when you know something about what you believe. If you want you can ask me what you believe I could probably help you out there as well.