Judaism evolved from polytheism? Mormonism right?

[Windfish]

youtube.com/watch?v=T5eGoyp4SRg

The above video explains that Judaism evolved from an ancient, polytheistic cult which had Yahweh as one of its gods. Can anyone make sense of this? Is this person wrong?

 

[PaulDupre]

Yahweh (God the Son) is indeed the Son of El (God the Father). The word “El” is a generic Hebrew word for “God”. “El” and “Elohim” are descriptive words, not names.

The plural “Elohim”, the “us” and “our” in Genesis, refers to the Holy Trinity.

The name Yahweh was known by pagans as well as by the Abrahamic peoples (religious ideas spread quickly along trade routes in the ancient world). They adopted its use along with the names of their pagan deities.

We all know these things, this video shows nothing new. What is the point?

The facts in the video are mostly correct, but the producer of the video draws very ignorant and erroneous conclusions.

And why on earth would this have anything to do with Mormonism being right?

Paul (a former Mormon)

 

[Windfish]

Yahweh (God the Son) is indeed the Son of El (God the Father). The word “El” is a generic Hebrew word for “God”. “El” and “Elohim” are descriptive words, not names.

The plural “Elohim”, the “us” and “our” in Genesis, refers to the Holy Trinity.

The name Yahweh was known by pagans as well as by the Abrahamic peoples (religious ideas spread quickly along trade routes in the ancient world). They adopted its use along with the names of their pagan deities.

We all know these things, this video shows nothing new. What is the point?

The facts in the video are mostly correct, but the producer of the video draws very ignorant and erroneous conclusions.

And why on earth would this have anything to do with Mormonism being right?

I thought Mormonism held similar polytheistic notions of God. Am I wrong?

I also thought Yahweh was the Hebrew word for the Old Testament God the Father.

I guess I need to research this more. Do you have any recommended reading, by chance?

 

[CatholicGuyNY]

The facts in the video are mostly correct, but the producer of the video draws very ignorant and erroneous conclusions.

The producer advertises the channel as atheist/agnostic.

 

[PaulDupre]

I thought Mormonism held similar polytheistic notions of God. Am I wrong?

Yes, Mormons are polytheists, but so what? Polytheism is wrong. There has never been more than one God. Just because pagans believe in multiple gods does not mean that those gods really exist.

I also thought Yahweh was the Hebrew word for the Old Testament God the Father.

No. We as Catholics believe that Yahweh was the pre-incarnate Christ. Jesus (God the Son) was the one who communicated to the OT prophets, who led the children of Israel out of Egypt, etc. Any time God the Father deals with physical reality or with humanity, it is by and through his Son. A thorough reading of the Old - and New Testaments will make this obvious.

Jesus created the universe and this earth. It was made by Him and for Him, and it is His to govern and to deal with (John 1:1-3).

I guess I need to research this more. Do you have any recommended reading, by chance?

Yes.

1. The Holy Bible
2. The Catechism of the Catholic Church

The only reason that people fall into damnable errors such as Mormonism is because of ignorance of the scriptures.

Paul (a former Mormon)

 

[dianaiad]

Yahweh (God the Son) is indeed the Son of El (God the Father). The word “El” is a generic Hebrew word for “God”. “El” and “Elohim” are descriptive words, not names.

The plural “Elohim”, the “us” and “our” in Genesis, refers to the Holy Trinity.

The name Yahweh was known by pagans as well as by the Abrahamic peoples (religious ideas spread quickly along trade routes in the ancient world). They adopted its use along with the names of their pagan deities.

We all know these things, this video shows nothing new. What is the point?

The facts in the video are mostly correct, but the producer of the video draws very ignorant and erroneous conclusions.

And why on earth would this have anything to do with Mormonism being right?

Paul (a former Mormon)

Yeah.

What he said.

Well, there IS that ‘council of the gods’ thing.

 

[dianaiad]

Yes, Mormons are polytheists, but so what? Polytheism is wrong. There has never been more than one God. Just because pagans believe in multiple gods does not mean that those gods really exist.

Paul.
We are HENO theists. Of course, when viewed from the standpoint of TRULY monotheistic religions, like Judaism and Islam, all Christians are polytheistic, except that they use a really strange reasoning to make three gods into One God.

Doesn’t matter though. Polytheist, henotheist or monotheist…as long as we’re RIGHT, it’s all good.

No. We as Catholics believe that Yahweh was the pre-incarnate Christ.

So do Mormons, remember?

Jesus (God the Son) was the one who communicated to the OT prophets, who led the children of Israel out of Egypt, etc. Any time God the Father deals with physical reality or with humanity, it is by and through his Son. A thorough reading of the Old - and New Testaments will make this obvious.

Jesus created the universe and this earth. It was made by Him and for Him, and it is His to govern and to deal with (John 1:1-3).

Yes.

1. The Holy Bible
2. The Catechism of the Catholic Church

The only reason that people fall into damnable errors such as Mormonism is because of ignorance of the scriptures.

Paul (a former Mormon)

…and yet, we agree on Who Yahweh was…

 

[Windfish]

I guess I just find PaulDupre’s answer a little too convenient, especially if it can be shown that “Yahweh” can be dated before Judaism, as the video implies. I’m a newbie to all of this stuff, so I think assisted reading along with the Bible and the Catechism might be helpful for me.

 

[swariffin]

youtube.com/watch?v=T5eGoyp4SRg

The above video explains that Judaism evolved from an ancient, polytheistic cult which had Yahweh as one of its gods. Can anyone make sense of this? Is this person wrong?

I don’t know much about Mormonism, so I will not make any comment on that. To say that Judaism evolved from polytheism is absurd. But, if you say Judaism (i.e Monotheism) evolved after the early worshipers being exposed to many polytheistic cultures surrounding them, is correct.

 

[Windfish]

I don’t know much about Mormonism, so I will not make any comment on that. To say that Judaism evolved from polytheism is absurd. But, if you say Judaism (i.e Monotheism) evolved after the early worshipers being exposed to many polytheistic cultures surrounding them, is correct.

Well, the claim is that Judaism draws some of its beliefs from polytheistic cults. This is probably untrue, as it would be the subject of huge discussion among Jewish and Christian scholars alike, but I want to know why the video is wrong and how to explain to others who fall for this kind of ilk.

 

[DesertSister62]

swariffin said:
I don’t know much about Mormonism, so I will not make any comment on that. To say that Judaism evolved from polytheism is absurd. But, if you say Judaism (i.e Monotheism) evolved after the early worshipers being exposed to many polytheistic cultures surrounding them, is correct.

*I must have missed something,…I know that scripture plainly says that God spoke to Abraham and told him to leave his family and people and go to a land that He would show him, that would be set apart for him. In fact the Old Testament book of Genesis tells the whole story.

The Jews had a tendency to fall into pagan religions when things became too easy for them. That seems to be the story for pretty much the whole Old Testament in fact. It reads like a cycle: They were faithful and they prospered,… then they fell,…after living in sin for awhile and being punished by God,… they repented,…then they were faithful and they prospered… and they fell,…etc. Nowhere in the whole Bible have I read that they evolved! :tsktsk:

For those of you interested in Mormonism vs Catholicism,…**go talk to mguthrie on the group: “I’m a former Mormon and now a current Catholic.” ** I would be interested in seeing what he would do with some of this! :yup:

Oh yes, and** “henotheism”** means: “In religion and philosophy, henotheism is a term coined by Max Müller, meaning devotion to a single god while accepting the existence of other gods.” Sounds fishy to me!

In the Bible, God plainly tells the people that He is a jealous God,…I can’t see Him fitting into Mormonism! You see, in their belief system they believe that if they make it to the highest or Celestial glory then they will become Gods and will create, govern and people their own worlds. Does that sound Christian to you?

DesertSister62
P.S. I was a Mormon for 22 yrs. One thing they are NOT,…is Christian!
*

 

[po18guy]

I guess I just find PaulDupre’s answer a little too convenient, especially if it can be shown that “Yahweh” can be dated before Judaism, as the video implies. I’m a newbie to all of this stuff, so I think assisted reading along with the Bible and the Catechism might be helpful for me.

I categorize most YouTube videos with spam emails. Go to the EWTN YouTube channel and watch there. Paul is right: The Catechism is one of the absolute best investments you can make. $8.95 will last you a lifetime and give you the wisdom of the Saints and early Church fathers.

As to Mormonism, you must believe absolutely in the perfect veracity of only one man - arriving, for some reason, 1,800+ years after Christ. One man who wanted to be a god of his own planet. One man who took multiple wives, leaving other men without them. One man who told amazing tales of epic culture wars - which left not one trace of evidence. One man whose fantastic tale has been destroyed by DNA testing. One man who was in prophecy, but not in the manner you would think. Since the close of the Apostolic age (about the year 100), mankind has lived in the age of the false prophet, the false teacher, the false christ and the antichrist. This is the age into which one man - self-proclaimed messenger Joseph Smith arrived.

As Catholics, we treat members of the LDS faith with respect, but also pray for them as we believe they are horribly mislead.

 

[zaffiroborant]

I’ve never understood why even if early Jewish belief was polytheist that it mattered. It seems to me that the bible shows God leading people to a better understanding of himself, and that understanding is that there is only one God. If God had chosen to work with the Aztecs or Druids to bring about his plan would that have validated the understanding they had of God?

 

[dianaiad]

I categorize most YouTube videos with spam emails. Go to the EWTN YouTube channel and watch there. Paul is right: The Catechism is one of the absolute best investments you can make. $8.95 will last you a lifetime and give you the wisdom of the Saints and early Church fathers.

As to Mormonism, you must believe absolutely in the perfect veracity of only one man - arriving, for some reason, 1,800+ years after Christ. One man who wanted to be a god of his own planet. One man who took multiple wives, leaving other men without them. One man who told amazing tales of epic culture wars - which left not one trace of evidence. One man whose fantastic tale has been destroyed by DNA testing. One man who was in prophecy, but not in the manner you would think. Since the close of the Apostolic age (about the year 100), mankind has lived in the age of the false prophet, the false teacher, the false christ and the antichrist. This is the age into which one man - self-proclaimed messenger Joseph Smith arrived.

As Catholics, we treat members of the LDS faith with respect, but also pray for them as we believe they are horribly mislead.

I agree…well, not with the vast majority of your post, of course, but with the last sentence. As a general rule, most of you do treat Mormons with respect, as most of you treat most people with respect.

Most of the time.

Aside from the fact that y’all insist that we aren’t Christians and are therefore going to hell, of course, but we can’t have everything. (well, the juxtaposition of this sentence with those books advertised on the sidebar of this forum is a little unnerving, too, but nevermind…)

 

[oneGODoneCHURCH]

Yahweh (God the Son) is indeed the Son of El (God the Father). QUOTE]

I have never heard this before could you please provide the catholic documents that state this.

 

[dianaiad]

*I must have missed something,…I know that scripture plainly says that God spoke to Abraham and told him to leave his family and people and go to a land that He would show him, that would be set apart for him. In fact the Old Testament book of Genesis tells the whole story.

The Jews had a tendency to fall into pagan religions when things became too easy for them. That seems to be the story for pretty much the whole Old Testament in fact. It reads like a cycle: They were faithful and they prospered,… then they fell,…after living in sin for awhile and being punished by God,… they repented,…then they were faithful and they prospered… and they fell,…etc. Nowhere in the whole Bible have I read that they evolved! :tsktsk:

For those of you interested in Mormonism vs Catholicism,…**go talk to mguthrie on the group: “I’m a former Mormon and now a current Catholic.” *** I would be interested in seeing what he would do with some of this! :yup:

Would you advise anybody to go to an ex-Catholic for information about Catholicism? Just curious…

[Oh yes, and** “henotheism”

means: “In religion and philosophy, henotheism is a term coined by Max Müller, meaning devotion to a single god while accepting the existence of other gods.” Sounds fishy to me!

It’s simply an ‘…ism.’

Like modalism, which in my experience is what most people end up describing when they claim they are trinitarians.

In the Bible, God plainly tells the people that He is a jealous God,…I can’t see Him fitting into Mormonism! You see, in their belief system they believe that if they make it to the highest or Celestial glory then they will become Gods and will create, govern and people their own worlds. Does that sound Christian to you?

DesertSister62
P.S. I was a Mormon for 22 yrs. One thing they are NOT,…is Christian!

We aren’t Catholic. We aren’t Protestant. We aren’t Baptist or Lutheran or Methodist or Episcopalian. We are not Orthodox nor orthodox Christians. We don’t claim to be any of those.

We are, however, Christian because Jesus Christ is at the center of our belief system. (shrug) It seems to me that Catholicism (and all the other individual Christian ‘isms’) of the world would be satisfied with simply acknowledging that we are not specifially them–something we agree with. However, y’all have to go that extra mile and deny us the very right to the worship of God the Father through His Son Jesus Christ; to deny us the use of the very name of our church, and the very center of our faith.

Please note…we don’t return the favor. You need to ask yourself why y’all do that. What is the inevitable next step when one Christian group tells another one–which has at IT’S base the teachings of Jesus Christ–that they are not, after all, “Christian?”

Two thousand years of history, and it happens every single time.

 

[CatholicGuyNY]

Aside from the fact that y’all insist that we aren’t Christians and are therefore going to hell, of course, but we can’t have everything. (well, the juxtaposition of this sentence with those books advertised on the sidebar of this forum is a little unnerving, too, but nevermind…)

This is not correct. Catholicism does not teach that non-Christians automatically go to Hell. The Catechism of the Catholic Church quite clearly teaches the possibility of the salvation of those outside of the visible bounds of the Church, and even specifically mentions Muslims as part of the plan of salvation. This doesn’t mean that all will be saved, but that it is possible.

 

[Publisher]

The Hebrews were not always “mono-theistic”…monotheism did not develop and establish itself within Judaism until after the Exile.

YHVH was “one among many” in the first portions of the Hebrew Bible. It was under the ministry of the later prophets that began stressing that “other gods” truly did not exist…in the earlier history of the Hebrew people, YHVH was the “only god with whom they were to deal with”.

We see in Genesis that among Jacob’s household, Rachael I believe, collected the “household gods” and hid them under her skirts and was kept from being searched because she feigned being on her period, which made her unapproachable.

“Thou shalt have no other gods before me” doesn’t necessarily mean you shall not believe no other gods exist.

YHVH was “one of many”…but the only one they were to worship…YHVH wa a very tribal god…not the ONE GOD who alone exists as we read later in the prophets.

 

[CatholicGuyNY]

We are, however, Christian because Jesus Christ is at the center of our belief system. (shrug) It seems to me that Catholicism (and all the other individual Christian ‘isms’) of the world would be satisfied with simply acknowledging that we are not specifially them–something we agree with. However, y’all have to go that extra mile and deny us the very right to the worship of God the Father through His Son Jesus Christ; to deny us the use of the very name of our church, and the very center of our faith.

Please note…we don’t return the favor. You need to ask yourself why y’all do that. What is the inevitable next step when one Christian group tells another one–which has at IT’S base the teachings of Jesus Christ–that they are not, after all, “Christian?”

Two thousand years of history, and it happens every single time.

The problem, from the Catholic perspective, is your beliefs on the nature of God, which are incompatible with what we believe God has revealed about Himself and has been taught from the beginning of Christianity. Such beliefs include the Father having a body of flesh and bones and having been a man, the Father being married to a Heavenly Mother, the Son being the literal offspring of the Father and Heavenly Mother (and therefore had to be created/“organized” in His pre-mortal existence), the belief that God and man are of the same species ontologically, the belief in a plurality of Gods, etc.

Catholicism teaches that the basic facts of the nature of God were infallibly defined at various inspired Ecumenical Councils. Therefore, to deny/not hold to such teachings, in our belief, places a belief system outside of Christianity, since we hold that the belief in the Trinity is a basic fact of Christian belief. This does not mean that Mormons, Jehovah’s Witnesses, Oneness Pentecostals, Christadelphians, etc. are going to Hell, as I’ve already stated.

You have the right to worship the Father through the Son. We simply believe that we are not worshipping the same Father through the Son, since we hold incompatible beliefs on who They actually are, in contrast to the various Protestant churches, which, while not having any priesthood authority or sacraments, still hold to the definitions of who God is from the inspired Ecumenical Councils.

We don’t expect you to agree with this, since you don’t, but that is how we see it.

 

[dmar198]

youtube.com/watch?v=T5eGoyp4SRg

The above video explains that Judaism evolved from an ancient, polytheistic cult which had Yahweh as one of its gods. Can anyone make sense of this? Is this person wrong?

A noble-minded reading of Genesis would banish these myths. It tells the story of the origin of Judaism. It did not evolve from an ancient, polytheistic cult, and we have divine testimony confirming that. So there you go.

For anyone who would fall to that kind of ilk, you can do this: 1) Establish to them that the Bible is true, through a logical argument e.g. that related in the chapter on Biblical Inspiration from Karl Keating’s, “Catholicism and Fundamentalism.” 2) Show them that Genesis tells the origin of Judaism and it was not an evolution from polytheism but a revelation from the Father. 3) Then, since you’ve already established Genesis as inspired truth, you have disproved the “evolution from polytheism” theory of Judaism’s origin.

God bless!
-Dan Marcum