Judas Iscariot is most likely in Hell. What do you Think?

  • Thread starter Thread starter edjlopez23
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
He was trying to unburden him self from the world of his crime according to Catherine Emmerich
The recorded visions of Blessed Catherine Emmerich also declare that “black people” (Africans) were cursed with black skin because of the sin of Ham and are thus inferior to the “nobler races” (i.e. Europeans, etc.)…becoming increasingly “black” as time went on as a consequence of their sinful ways.

Of course, her writings weren’t actually written by her directly nor have they ever been approved by the Church.

Just saying.

Since coming across that particular passage, I have been very wary of the visions attributed to her…which seem to be promoted as the Gospel itself in some circles. I wonder how Cardinal Sarah and other eminent black churchmen feel about it…
 
Last edited:
Fr. Ripperger teaches that damned human souls, as opposed to demons who are fallen angels, can possess living humans? That seems a rather novel teaching, no???
 
There you have a document of the Ordinary Magisterium of the Church affirming Judas is in hell.
Hmm… let’s examine that claim.

Was the Roman Catechism written by the Council Fathers of Trent? No – they commissioned it. In fact, it was published a year after the council had completed its work.

Did Pope Pius V intend this as an expression of his magisterial authority, as an infallible expression of his magisterial authority? No; he writes, in the introduction, that the intent was otherwise: “the Council intended that such things only should be treated of as might assist the pious zeal of pastors in discharging the duty of instruction, should they not be very familiar with the more abstruse questions of theology.”

Is it authoritative? Certainly. Is it “a document o the Ordinary Magisterium of the Church”, though? It appears not.

I think you could attempt to suggest that all of the Church, throughout all time, has believed Judas is in hell… but I think that (although that’s a predominant opinion), it’s not taught by all.
I’ll wager with the Saints, the Liturgy of the Church, the Bible and the Catechism of Trent and say Judas is in hell. It’s either that, or admit that universal salvation is plausible, which means the Church has erred in her teachings.
No. This betrays a misunderstanding of what “universal salvation” means. You cannot look at one person’s judgment, and from that, extrapolate that all people unilaterally are saved.
 
Exactly - what Bp. Sheen said of Judas can be said of everyone, in a hypothetical sense - the greatest tragedy of human life is to not become a saint.
 
The next question becomes: if people like Judas and Hitler aren’t in hell, or if we can’t even be reasonably sure they are, doesn’t that mean universal salvation is quite plausible?
No, that we cannot be certain who is in hell or even if any particular person is does not imply universal salvation.
 
In any case, do not pray to Judas Iscariot for his intercession. Because if he is in Hell he will drag you down with him. I used to thought he was a saint a year ago in mistake from St. Jude Thaddeus the apostle. However, praying for the repose of his soul is still perfectly fine.
 
Last edited:
From the Roman Catechism:
ROMAN CATECHISM Furthermore, no one can deny that it is a virtue to be sorrowful at the time, in the manner, and to the extent which are required. To regulate sorrow in this manner belongs to the virtue of penance. Some conceive a sorrow which bears no proportion to their crimes. Nay, there are some, says Solomon, who are glad when they have done evil. Others, on the contrary, give themselves to such melancholy and grief, as utterly to abandon all hope of salvation.
Such, perhaps, was the condition of Cain when he exclaimed: My iniquity is greater than that I may deserve pardon.
Such CERTAINLY was the condition of Judas ,
who, repenting, hanged himself,
and thus lost soul AND body.
(Emphasis mine)
 
Last edited:
In fact there is a column in a particular Italian Basilica where Judas hangs himself one one side and the other side Christ the Good Shepherd is holding his corpse on his shoulders like a lost lamb.
 
In fact there is a column in a particular Italian Basilica where Judas hangs himself one one side and the other side Christ the Good Shepherd is holding his corpse on his shoulders like a lost lamb.
Do you remember which basilica? I’d love to see a picture of that.
 
From the Roman Catechism:
ROMAN CATECHISM
Such, perhaps, was the condition of Cain
when he exclaimed: My iniquity is greater than that I may deserve pardon.
Such CERTAINLY was the condition of Judas ,
who, repenting, hanged himself,
and thus lost soul AND body.
Would you mind providing a citation for that quote? I’ve tried finding it, but I can’t find anywhere that substantiates your claim.

Thanks!

Blessings,
G.
 
Would you mind providing a citation for that quote? I’ve tried finding it, but I can’t find anywhere that substantiates your claim.
Certainly Gorgias.

But I am not by my reference material right now.

If I don’t do it in a couple of days tag me as a reminder please.

Thanks.
 
Last edited:
I just did a search with . . .

“roman catechism” + “Such CERTAINLY was the condition of Judas”

Here is a reference . . .

Penance Proved To Be A Virtue​

That this inward penance is, as we have already said, a virtue, the various commands which have been given regarding it clearly show; for the law commands only those actions that are virtuous.

Furthermore, no one can deny that it is a virtue to be sorrowful at the time, in the manner, and to the extent which are required. To regulate sorrow in this manner belongs to the virtue of penance. Some conceive a sorrow which bears no proportion to their crimes. Nay, there are some, says Solomon, who are glad when they have done evil. Others, on the contrary, give themselves to such melancholy and grief, as utterly to abandon all hope of salvation. Such, perhaps, was the condition of Cain when he exclaimed: My iniquity is greater than that I may deserve pardon. Such certainly was the condition of Judas, who, repenting, hanged himself, and thus lost soul and body. Penance, therefore, considered as a virtue, assists us in restraining within the bounds of moderation our sense of sorrow.

That penance is a virtue may also be inferred from the ends which the true penitent proposes to himself. The first is to destroy sin and efface from the soul its every spot and stain. The second is to make satisfaction to God for the sins which he has committed, which is clearly an act of justice. Between God and man, it is true, no relation of strict justice can exist, so great is the distance that separates them; yet between them there is evidently a sort of justice, such as exists between a father and his children, between a master and his servants. The third (end of the penitent) is to reinstate himself in the favour and friendship of God whom he has offended and whose hatred he has earned by the turpitude of sin. The foregoing considerations sufficiently prove that penance is a virtue.
http://www.catholicapologetics.info/thechurch/catechism/Holy7Sacraments-Penance.shtml

(Hope that was helpful)

Also CCC 9 . . .
CCC 9a “The ministry of catechesis draws ever fresh energy from the councils. The Council of Trent is a noteworthy example of this. It gave catechesis priority in its constitutions and decrees. It lies at the origin of the Roman Catechism , which is also known by the name of that council and which is a work of the first rank as a summary of Christian teaching. . . .” The Council of Trent initiated a remarkable organization of the Church’s catechesis.
 
Last edited:
Maybe the solution to crime is just to make the punishment so horrific that when they have to commit it hey would be ashamed. Then again maybe the solution to crime is so forgiveness that we would have to have the kingdom of heaven on Earth.
 
Is Judas Iscariot is most likely in Hell? As I have no intention of ending up there to verify this, I do not know!
 
How did he make an act of perfect contrition prior to hanging himself in despair?
That’s not the question.

First of all, Judas died prior to Pentecost – that is, prior to the “birth of the Church” – and therefore, the (much) later assertion of the Church about “acts of perfect contrition” do not apply.

But, even if it did apply, the question would be “could Judas have made a sufficient act of contrition after committing to his act of suicide and prior to his death?” That answer to that question is yes, he could have. And, hence, we cannot conclude anything about Judas, since that would be a matter between him and God, at the last moments of his life.
I just did a search with . . .

“roman catechism” + “Such CERTAINLY was the condition of Judas”

Here is a reference . . .
OK… so, let me make sure I understand what’s being claimed here:
  • @ChristMyLife provides a quote, putatively from the “Catechism of Trent”, which makes a claim about Judas vis-a-vis his status as an apostle.
  • @Cathoholic provides a different citation, also claiming to be the “Catechism of Trent”. It doesn’t substantiate ChristMyLife’s quote about Judas and his lack of salvation, per se, but provides a different quote, with a different kind of assertion.
  • When I look up that quote, I see a “Catechism of Trent” online that says both what Cathoholic claims (vis-a-vis penance) and what ChristMyLife claims (with respect to Holy Orders).
So, we’re left with internet resources. If we give them the benefit of the doubt (and I don’t see any reason not to, at this point), then they accurately represent the Catechism of Trent.

Yet, do they represent the magisterial teaching of the Church? That’s seems to be a problematic assertion. After all, the quote regarding penance seems to suggest that all who commit suicide are damned – and that is not the position of the Church today! And, the assertion that ChristMyLife brings to our attention seems to address Judas’ priesthood more directly than it does his eternal destiny.

It’s a difficult question. Many have offered their opinions on it. Yet, it seems, any human assertion is somewhat presumptuous – after all, eternal judgment belongs to God, not the Church, or even the magisterium.

So, if you want to assert that you can make a claim to which God must assent, well… have at it! I think I’ll stay on the safe side of the fence and say “that’s for God to decide”. 😉
 
Gorgias . . .
So, we’re left with internet resources. If we give them the benefit of the doubt . . .
I found these in my BOOK (originally).

BOTH sets of quotes.

If you want I can scan it in for you in a few days.

It is in my Latin version of the Catechism of the Council of Trent (in book form also) too.

There’s nothing funny going on here concerning the internet quotes. They are authentic (I have read the Roman Catechism cover to cover).

I would suggest just affirming BOTH Roman Catechism quotes concerning Judas (they are in harmony).
 
Last edited:
Gorgias . . .
Yet, do they represent the magisterial teaching of the Church?
I get this kind of thing all the time in discussions.

I have people tell me the Church teaches NOWHERE, concerning ANYBODY in hell.

I show em these quotes concerning Judas.

Then their argument changes to . . .

“Well I don’t think this teaching has that much weight.”

And I think “why bring up the initial objection in the first place then?”

As for me?

I’m just going to affirm what it teaches and realize that even today the Church refers to the Roman Catechism as a “work of first rank among Christian teaching” (as I quoted in CCC 9 beforehand because I figured SOMEBODY would come up with a reason to deny the Church’s catechesis here (as I have had seen many times before).

Like I said, if you want me to scan and post salient pages let me know. It will be easy for me as I had them marked from many years ago. My markings are still there in my book.

It will be tougher for me to find it if you insist on me scanning the appropriate Latin pages-- those I did NOT mark up (but maybe I would accomodate that request too).
 
Last edited:
Gorgias . . .
So, if you want to assert that you can make a claim to which God must assent, well… have at it! I think I’ll stay on the safe side of the fence and say “that’s for God to decide”.
Go ahead and think that. I am OK with that.

But for lurkers here, I too think this is for God to decide.
I am not saying I get to decide.

But I ALSO affirm let GOD TEACH through His Church.

I affirm BOTH PRINCIPLES (God deciding AND God teaching via His Church).

You here are ONLY going to affirm one.

(I’ve got to admit Gorgias, I am surprised.
I hadn’t seen you picking and choosing doctrinal teaching here before. I hear Catholics make the SAME argument against the Perpetual Virginity of the Blessed Virgin Mary, the ministerial Priesthood, Confession, etc. etc. I just didn’t expect to hear that from you.)
 
Last edited:
There’s nothing funny going on here concerning the internet quotes. They are authentic (I have read the Roman Catechism cover to cover).

I would suggest just affirming BOTH Roman Catechism quotes concerning Judas (they are in harmony).
Right. That’s what I’m saying – “benefit of the doubt”. 😉
I’m just going to affirm what it teaches and realize that even today the Church refers to the Roman Catechism as a “work of first rank among Christian teaching” (as I quoted in CCC 9 beforehand because I figured SOMEBODY would come up with a reason to deny the Church’s catechesis here (as I have had seen many times before).
Right. The case I"m making is a difficult one to make. So, I’m not going to push it too hard. Is the teaching authentic? Sure. Authoritative? Yep. Infallible? That’s an interesting question.

Am I “picking and choosing doctrinal teaching”? I don’t think so. You see, the particular judgment of one particular person is not a “matter of faith and morals,” per se. Remember – in order to “pass judgment” on Judas, we have to say that we know his state of mind at the time of his death. Not the time of his action that led to his death, but whether he repented after that action but prior to death. And that’s something that’s not a matter of doctrine. It’s a fact known only to Judas and God. And so, when the Church says “he’s in hell”, she’s overstepping her bounds, IMHO.

Did many in the Church’s history discuss the question, and assert that Judas is in hell? Sure. Doesn’t mean that they’re right, though. And, if the Church is willing, today, to say that it’s not certain that those who commit suicide are condemned to hell… well, then that means that it’s not certain for Judas, either.
 
Last edited:
This is fine if you want to think this Gorgias.

For other readers, realize I am not “passing judgment on Judas” Iscariot.
in order to “pass judgment” on Judas . . .
I am merely reading and affirming what the Church is teaching in the Catechism.

“Infallible” or not, I am just going to affirm it.

(I don’t think the Church is overstepping Her bounds.)

Gorgias . . .
And, if the Church is willing, today, to say that it’s not certain that those who commit suicide are condemned to hell…
But I have never argued “that those who commit suicide are condemned to hell”.

I am arguing that Judas Iscariot (who was given and rejected much more than many people who may have committed suicide) “lost soul and body.”

Such certainly was the condition of Judas, who, repenting, hanged himself, and thus lost soul and body.

I am arguing just what the Church is teaching here. No more and no less.
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top