Judge Rules Illinois Father Cannot Take Daughter to Easter Mass

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rpp said:
So, lt me see if I can understand what the anti-Catholic “Catholics” are claiming on this thread.

Dad is Catholic.

Dad is divorced.

Dad has a daughter with is “ex”-wife.

Dad wants his daughter to learn about the Catholic church.

Mom, an anti-Catholic, objects to the last point.

Therefore, Dad is a fundamentally evil man who should spend eternity in Hell and, in the meantime, should go to jail, for having the temerity for trying to teach his daughter the Truth which God has revealed.

So, what have I got wrong?

And how is Mom right?
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Obviously, mom is not right. The girl has been baptised and the Church recognises her as a Catholic.
 
Bishop93 said:
I’m glad somebody knows some Catholic AND Jewish history 🙂

And recognizes “Once a Jew always a Jew” to be fact.

Thanks 👍
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Jew is an ethnic group that does not preclude being a Christian. If that were not true then Christ (who was a Jew) could not have been God.

Nor could any of the apostles be Christians, as they were all Jews as well.
 
sidbrown said:
And where is your reference for that?
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like the man said sid google it .Things were different back then.The Pope didn’t do it out of maliciousness the boy was baptised by someone else and as Catholics we realize that Baptism is forgiveness for original sin,leaves an indelible mark on our soul and makes us truly catholic but it does not wipe out Jewishness.
The Pope thought he had an obligation brfore God to keep the kid from his parents and raise him catholic as he believed that that n made him exclusively Catholic.For the times he felt it was the only thing he could do.the pope was neither infallible nor impeccable on this matter.POOR PARENTS.
During WWII a polish Catholic couple were hiding a Jewish child that had been entrusted to them by her parents who managed to survive the war but no one knew at the time that would happen.The Polish couple assumed the Jews were dead meat and they loved the little girl and they brought her to Father Wotyla who refused to baptise the baby without the parents consent which obviously was unobtaimable and would NOT have been forthcoming anyway.His instructions were to raise the child(secretly) as a Jew and reunite the baby with the parents once the Nazi nightmare was over.They did as Wotyla instructed them,reunited the Jewish child with the Jewish parents and today they are recognized as "Righteous among Nations’.
 
Bishop93 said:
And recognizes “Once a Jew always a Jew” to be fact.
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This is also disproven by the number of converts from Judaism to Catholicism. Take for example, Israel Anton Zoller who was from 1939 to 1945 Chief Rabbi of Rome.
Even though he was the chief Jewish rabbi of Rome, he converted to Catholicism. After his conversion to Catholicism, under the Catholic law, he was no longer bound to follow all of the 613 commandments of Judaism which applied to his state in life, and the thousands of laws which follow from them. He was bound by the New Law of Jesus Christ and of the Catholic Church and the Old Law no longer applied to him. He recognised Our Lord Jesus Christ and was no longer a Jew, but a Catholic.
 
sidbrown said:
This is simply not true according to my local rabbi and according to Catholic teaching.
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I have a Rabbi that I see regularly…Don’t for get my father is Jewish.

I have spoken to several Reform,Conservative AND Orthodox Rabbi’s about this very thing because I considered conversion and they say the same thing I do.
 
rpp said:
Jew is an ethnic group that does not preclude being a Christian. If that were not true then Christ (who was a Jew) could not have been God.

Nor could any of the apostles be Christians, as they were all Jews as well.
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How can Judaism be an ethnic group? ?Take for example, two Chinese side by side, one a Buddhist and the other a Jew, how would ethnicity determine which was which?
 
sidbrown said:
How can Judaism be an ethnic group? ?Take for example, two Chinese side by side, one a Buddhist and the other a Jew, how would ethnicity determine which was which?
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I did not “Judaism”, I said “Jew”.

Yes, there are gentile converts to Judaism, but they are not Jews.

But Christ and the Apostles were not converts, they were ethnic Jews.

And (except for Christ who is God) all of them were Christians, as were most of the first converts.
 
rpp said:
I did not “Judaism”, I said “Jew”.

Yes, there are gentile converts to Judaism, but they are not Jews.

But Christ and the Apostles were not converts, they were ethnic Jews.

And (except for Christ who is God) all of them were Christians, as were most of the first converts.
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No,a Jew is a Jew is a Jew.

Converts aren’t looked at any differently as a “ethnic” jew.

When you convert you accept the 613 Mitzvot as all Jews do…You’re a Jew.
 
rpp said:
I did not “Judaism”, I said “Jew”.

Yes, there are gentile converts to Judaism, but they are not Jews.

But Christ and the Apostles were not converts, they were ethnic Jews.

And (except for Christ who is God) all of them were Christians, as were most of the first converts.
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Ok Explain to me how Jew can be an ethnic group. Take for example two Chinese, one a Buddhist, and the other a Jew from a family of Jews that goes way back. If being a Jew is belonging to an ethnic group how would you tell the Chinese Buddhist from the Chinese Jew?
 
Oh brother.

You two have hijacked this thread and I will report this to the moderators.
 
Bishop93 said:
lol you are impossible.

I now know why you don’t know you butt from a hole in the ground…You want to dispute everything people say.

This is an overview of the whole story…

histclo.com/Child/chron/mod/19/child-mont.html

Taken from a book about the case.
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The book makes the statement that:“The Church had for centuries taking Jewish boys away from their families.” But it gives no supporting evidence of this. It is just a statement on the part of the author without anything to back it up in the way of examples or times or localities. It needs supporting evidence. The Church considered that Mortara was a Catholic and that was the basis for their action.
 
sidbrown said:
Ok Explain to me how Jew can be an ethnic group. Take for example two Chinese, one a Buddhist, and the other a Jew from a family of Jews that goes way back. If being a Jew is belonging to an ethnic group how would you tell the Chinese Busddhist from the Chinese Jew?
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Why does that matter to you?

First the Chinese Jew that goes way back…One of the Grandmothers had to have converted so they don’t look any different than any other Chinese person.
 
sidbrown said:
The book makes the statement that:“The Church had for centuries taking Jewish boys away from their families.” But it gives no supporting evidence of this. It is just a statement on the part of the author without anything to back it up in the way of examples or times or localities. It needs supporting evidence. The Church considered that Mortara was a Catholic and that was the basis for their action.
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No they didn’t consider him a Catholic until he went to the House of Catacumins to “cleanse” him of his Jewishness.

Then they hid him from the Nazi’s in the 30’s because he was STILL Jewish by birth.
 
Bishop93 said:
Why does that matter to you?

First the Chinese Jew that goes way back…One of the Grandmothers had to have converted so they don’t look any different than any other Chinese person.
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It matters becasue I don;t think that Jewishness is an ethnic question. He said it was a question of ethnicity which I am questioning. If you take two Chinese, one a Jew and the other a Buddhist, I don;t see how you can tell the difference based on ethnicity.
 
Bishop93 said:
Why?..Because it doesn’t necessarily agree with you?🙂
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Dude, you are so way out of line with this statement.

Rather it is that you have not posted anything even remotely on topic. Unlike most forums you may be familiar with, tbis forum requires that people not hijack threads insult other members and treat others with Christian charity. I have not observed this behavior in any recent posts,

This is not a forum where you should challenge the moderators. Such people lose every time.
 
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