"Judge you yourselves : doth it become a woman to pray to God uncovered?"

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Maria_Therese

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"Be ye also followers of me, as I also am of Christ. Now I praise you, brethren, that in all things you are mindful of me : and keep my ordinances as I delivered them to you. But I would have you know that the head of every man in Chris : and the head of every woman is the man : and the head of Christ is God. Every man praying or prophesying with his head covered, disgraceth his head. But every woman praying or prophesying with her head not covered, disgraceth her head : for it is all one as if she were shaven. For if a woman be not covered, let her be shorn. But if it be a shame to a woman to be shorn or shaven, let her cover her head. The man, indeed, ought not to cover his head : because he is the image and glory of God; but the woman is the glory of man. For the man is not of the woman, but the woman of the man. For the man was not created for the woman, but the woman for the man. Therefore ought the woman to have a power over her head, because of the angels. But yet neither is the man without the woman, nor the woman without the man, in the Lord. For as the woman is of the man, so also is the man by the woman : but all things of God. Judge you yourselves : doth it become a woman to pray to God uncovered? Doth not even nature itself teach you, that a man indeed, if he nourish his hair, it is a shame to him : But if a woman nourish her hair, it is a glory to her; for her hair is given to her as a covering.
1 Corithinthians 11:1-15

I was curious as to the general opinion concerning head coverings for women in Church. I know that it is not even a universal custom within traditional parishes anymore, but are there any novus ordo women who wear a veil or hat to Mass?

If you are opposed to women’s head coverings, may I ask for what reason? and How do you reconcile your opinion with the preceding passage?

I am looking for genuine discussion please. I have no problem with debates, but please be civil and polite.
 
The document Inter Insigniores actually makes mention of this passage:
Another objection is based upon the transitory character that one claims to see today in some of the prescriptions of Saint Paul concerning women, and upon the difficulties that some aspects of his teaching raise in this regard. But it must be noted that these ordinances, probably inspired by the customs of the period, concern scarcely more than disciplinary practices of minor importance, such as the obligation imposed upon women to wear a veil on the head (1 Cor 11:2-6); such requirements no longer have a normative value.
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Basically, this is a matter of Church discipline (over which Paul had authority) but which future successors of the apostles have the power to change.
 
MARIA THERESE ASKS:

I know that it is not even a universal custom within traditional parishes anymore, but are there any novus ordo women who wear a veil or hat to Mass?

MY REPLY:

If the weather is cold there’s a chance I may wear a winter hat to Mass. In most Novus Ordo parishes, it would personally feel like I was giving the appearance of broadcasting an agenda if I were to wear a veil. In my current Novus Ordo parish, wearing a veil might actually feel somewhat comfortable, since it’s a very reverent parish. Actually, I don’t consider myself fully a Novus Ordo woman, nor do I consider myself fully a Latin Mass woman … while I personally prefer the Latin Mass, I am happy to hear Mass in any language, including Spanish or even Japanese, as long as there is due reverence shown to Our Eucharistic Lord.

MARIA THERESE ASKS:

If you are opposed to women’s head coverings, may I ask for what reason? and How do you reconcile your opinion with the preceding passage?

MY REPLY:

I do not oppose women’s head coverings. In fact, I like them, especially in a setting where they would be known to be welcome and accepted, such as the indult Latin Mass downtown. Here’s my personal dilemma — for me, wearing a veil can become a temptation to vanity, because I have a beautiful turquoise blue mantilla bought in Fatima, Portugal which I think enhances my appearance so that I look more attractive. For instance, if I walk into a Novus Ordo Mass wearing a winter hat, I’m pretty much invisible to other people and rarely if ever get noticed in a positive way based on how I look. However, on walking into a Latin Mass wearing my veil, people smile and pay friendly attention to me far more than if I attend Latin Mass without a veil. Of course, I dress nicer to match the veil, which may well figure into the equation too.

In these types of threads, I think most people who wear the veil are far more humble about it with purer motives, and don’t have the same temptations that I do. It seems to me that many who wear the veil are shy about it … Meanwhile, I wonder if I should feel guilty for enjoying the fashion sense of a head covering that happens to look nice?

~~ the phoenix
 
Can someone point to the place in canon law where it states that women no longer have to cover their heads? My understanding is that it simply wasn’t addressed in VII and feminists decided to stop covering their heads for Mass. I wear a hat, scarf, or mantilla to Mass whether it be Novus Ordo or TLM. It is scriptural. Besides, I am rebelling against the feminists. 😃
 
I attend a NO Mass and I cover my head with a black lace mantilla. As do many women in our parish. I’m not alone there.

But last weekend we went to a different Church because we needed to go to an evening Mass and I was the only one there with my head covered, which surprised both me and DH, as we had been to this parish before and they are extremely conservative. I did get some interesting looks, but I really don’t care what others think about my personal devotion.

It’s not a popularity contest. I’m more concerned with what God, His angels, and my husband think.

~Liza
 
krazykatlady said:
Can someone point to the place in canon law where it states that women no longer have to cover their heads?
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The requirement was part of the 1917 Code of Canon Law, but the entire 1917 Code was abrogated when the 1983 Code was promulgated.
Can. 6 §1. When this Code takes force, the following are abrogated:
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1/ the Code of Canon Law promulgated in 1917;
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But the prescript remained in force until 1983. There were no abrogations of the requirement for a woman to wear a headcovering in Vatican II or in any Vatican pronouncement.

( and to the OP, my wife wears a veil at our NO parish)
 
Maria_Therese said:
"
I was curious as to the general opinion concerning head coverings for women in Church. I know that it is not even a universal custom within traditional parishes anymore, but are there any novus ordo women who wear a veil or hat to Mass?=.

:yup: I do. I have a white lace mantilla and a few hats and I go to NO Masses. I started looking into veiling after reading about other women doing it on this forum. The turning point for me was when I came upon pictures of Hilary Clinton, Laura Bush and Condoleeza Rice wearing mantillas. If these ladies are not even Catholic but will show such deference and respect in the presence of the Pope, I felt that I should be doing the same in the Real Presence of Christ. 🙂 It’s a beautiful tradition.
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Paul is writing here to the Corinthian Christians who , living in Greece,customarily complied with Greek traditions:men had their heads uncovered and women covered theirs,which however,was,was contrary to the Jewish tradition.
The question which faced the Corinthians was what to do with existing custom of their day.
Paul’s advice is to examine the symbolism of the custom.

He lets them know - ‘‘do not allow contentions to arise regarding customs which symbolize something that is proper’’…
In this case ,the Greeks believed that by not covering their heads,the men declared their independence as contrasted to the slaves who had to cover themselves.
The women covered themselves,symbolizing the protectiveness that they enjoyed from their husbands.
Paul intimated that there is nothing wrong with this , for in creation God created man,and from man there came the woman. That is good as far as it goes,but remember that man also in spite of the fact that he prays without covering,still has Head and that is Christ

However , he equates both man and woman in the Lord as also stressed in Galat3:28 and 1 Pet3:7.
In spite of this equality in Christ,still in creation and in present order of things,the husband is the head of the family.
God made him physically stronger than the woman in order to protect the woman.
He ought to recognize his position as protector and show it overtly,and she ought to recognize her protector and abide under his care.
God is responsible for the difference in the make -up of male and female (1Cor4:7), and no man should at any time endeavor in any way to diminish the difference between the two either in physical
or emotional constitution,appearance,or function of life.
Since this custom of head coverings showed beautifully that which is true in creation and also in order of things,why should the Corinthian Christians living in Greece reject the Greek custom and assume the Jewish one ?
This decision,however was left entirely to the Corinthians .
Therefore ,these are the personal decisions which must be exercised in following a custom as long the symbol is good and there is no contrary teaching involved in the symbolism.

This whole Scripture teaches that existing customs, as long as they are not contrary to morals and Scripture , are to be adheared
for the sake of unity and not to be flaunted.

The phrase ,’’ because of the Angels’ ’ means that when a young woman covers her head or wears her hair like a woman it accomplishes 4 things:
1 She gives a visible attestation to her womanhood

2 She shows that she recognizes her husband’s protectiveness

3 She does not disturb a good custom

4 She knows that heaven is pleased by her action.She does what she does also ‘’ on account of angels’’

Thats the according to the context , of what is written in the 11 Chapter.
 
I definitely feel that church-goers of both sexes should be dressed and wear their hair (and beard, if applicable) precisely as did those in Paul’s day if we are to be true to his teachings. If OP can find me one instance in the NT of a woman wearing a white lace mantilla (or black will do) to the celebration of the Eucharist I will purchase one at once. We should also be worshipping in the language of Paul’s day (which was not Latin but Greek).
 
The modesty in the outward appearance of the woman is important.
But I do not think that womans covering is necessary today.
We should consider the Paul’s advices on this issue , according to the time,culture , and customs of that period.
 
puzzleannie said:
If OP can find me one instance in the NT of a woman wearing a white lace mantilla (or black will do) to the celebration of the Eucharist I will purchase one at once.
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puzzleannie - you don’t strike me as the sola scriptura type. 😉 Since when do we have to find everything we believe in scripture? The Catholic Church also has tradition and custom as well. But I don’t have to tell you that. 🙂

~Liza
 
I attend a Novus Ordo parish, and I cover my head, because it is the custom in my parish. (I’m in Korea.)
In the US, I would be a little afraid to wear it, because it would attract a lot of attention to myself, and some people would probably assume that I have some kind of agenda.
If women ever stopped paying attention to what other women wearing and judging them based on what they wear, I would be willing to cover my head. But with Meredith Viera on the Today Show receiving angry letters because she wore white pants before Memorial Day :bigyikes: :bigyikes: I just don’t see that happening.
 
Athanasiy said:
The phrase ,’’ because of the Angels’ ’ means that when a young woman covers her head or wears her hair like a woman it accomplishes 4 things:
1 She gives a visible attestation to her womanhood

2 She shows that she recognizes her husband’s protectiveness

3 She does not disturb a good custom

4 She knows that heaven is pleased by her action.She does what she does also ‘’ on account of angels’’

Thats the according to the context , of what is written in the 11 Chapter.
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I’ve never heard it explained like that before. That’s quite interesting.

I was always taught that “because of the angels” meant. . .well, because of the angels! In order to show respect to the angels present in the assemblies of the faithful and who adore Christ as He desends to the altar.

I do like your explanation too, though.
 
On a related note. . . what about men who do cover their heads? It seems like most of the emphasis is placed on women in regards to head covering, but I’ve seen men with covered heads during Mass and I was wondering about that. For example, I was praying in a chapel and the monks wore a hood over their heads. Does that go against the apostolic ordinance?

Thank you all for your opinions, it’s very interesting to read them.
 
A Veil is supposed to cover something Holy.

This is why we have traditionally had veils on the tabernacles, on Chalices and on women.

Recently the notion of something being Holy has been discarded this can be seen in the new attitude people have for the Tabernacle. Sometimes people don’t even pay attention to it.
The disdain of respect for the Chalice which in many parishes does not have a Chalice veil anymore and in women.

Many women don’t respect themselves or see themselves as called to be Holy. They are taught that to seek to be Holy is to seek attention and it is just better to do what you want instead of what you should do.

So being Holy is poo-pooed as old fashioned and piety is frowned upon. What is the result?

Is Piety bad? Is being Holy bad? Is seeking the will of God instead of the appreciation of other women better?

Now women are not required, so it seems to cover their heads but is it a good thing to do?
Am I required as a Catholic to go to daily Mass when I can? I see no such requirement, but is it a good thing to do.
To be Saints shouldn’t we give the best to God, do the most we can and seek to be perfect?

God Bless
Scylla
 
lizaanne said:
puzzleannie - you don’t strike me as the sola scriptura type. 😉 Since when do we have to find everything we believe in scripture? The Catholic Church also has tradition and custom as well. But I don’t have to tell you that. 🙂

~Liza
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ah but OP is basing his argument on scripture. Others have introduced canon law and tradition, but I am responding to OP.
 
I would love to wear a mantilla but I would be the only woman in my church that did. It would make me feel uncomfortable to be the only one.
 
RWMorris said:
I would love to wear a mantilla but I would be the only woman in my church that did. It would make me feel uncomfortable to be the only one.
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It would make you uncomfortable to glorify God? You shouldn’t worry about what other people may think.
I personally think mantillas are beautiful. If only I was a woman.....
 
dbacks5439 said:
It would make you uncomfortable to glorify God? You shouldn’t worry about what other people may think.
Code: 
  I personally think mantillas are beautiful. If only I was a woman.....
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i love it when girls wear veils. they look so cute and holy.

i can understand girls who are shy about it. it takes courage to stand out like that, and few of us are willing to do it for God. maybe one of you who are brave enough will be the catalyst that will encourage others to do the same.

i also wonder if say, you are an active parishioner, and were to get discriminated against by the priest/pastor/community. say like if you wanted to reserve a room key, and the priest kinda gave you the cold shoulder or something. i’m sure you could feel the negativity. a lot of people couldn’t handle that…

pray for courage ladies!
 
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