"Judge you yourselves : doth it become a woman to pray to God uncovered?"

[lizaanne]

ah but OP is basing his argument on scripture. Others have introduced canon law and tradition, but I am responding to OP.

Then as a Catholic, your response should be the same is mine. Sola Scripture is a falsehood, and should not be the basis for any Catholic argument. We do not rely on scripture alone, ever, so it is a moot point. That the OP is trying to base a Catholic understanding of something using scripture alone is irrelevant. Our Faith is not based on scripture alone, therefore a discussion using scripture alone is baseless.

~Liza

 

[maryjk]

If you are opposed to women’s head coverings, may I ask for what reason?
Because I look like a dork when I wear a head covering, hat or anything else on my head.

and How do you reconcile your opinion with the preceding passage?

I do not live by the Bible alone. I am not required to wear one by the church. If I ever was, I would wear one and look like a dork.

I am looking for genuine discussion please. I have no problem with debates, but please be civil and polite.

 

[OutinChgoburbs]

Then as a Catholic, your response should be the same is mine. Sola Scripture is a falsehood, and should not be the basis for any Catholic argument. We do not rely on scripture alone, ever, so it is a moot point. That the OP is trying to base a Catholic understanding of something using scripture alone is irrelevant. Our Faith is not based on scripture alone, therefore a discussion using scripture alone is baseless.

~Liza

Liza, your logic if off, dear. Annie is basing her logic on what the OP posted, which was Scriptural basis. Therefore, the OP should be addressed on the point of Scripture and not Tradition.

i love it when girls wear veils. they look so cute and holy

At least you are honest about it. I am tried of young men who try to foist veils on the heads of their women folk, under the guise of obeying St. Paul. You are obviously not one of those.

The mantilla in this country is not the ancient practice of which St. Paul spoke. The ancient veiling of which he spoke is more like a burka or chador.

The mantilla was an innovation of the late 1940s, brought here during WWII (the Big One) by returning GIs to their winves and sweethearts, and by immigrants of that period. It was not popular until Jackie Kennedy became first lady and wore them to Mass, being photographed as she left the church. The then Mrs. Kennedy further popularized the mantilla when she visited Pope John XXIII, having one made by Oleg Cassini, along with a designer gown and some snazzy shoes.

This has been talked to death. The main points:

• It is no longer required. It was only a discipline, of any time frame or era in question.
• It is a pious practice.
• If a woman chooses to cover her head for the right reasons, more power to her- no matter what type of Liturgy she attends!
• If a woman does not cover her head, she is not under any penalty of sin.
• Men who try to get their wives to wear mantillas, in my opinion, have more on their minds than applying St. Paul.
• If a guy wants to cover his head, there’s no Church law that says he can’t. Local custom may deem otherwise (ball caps).

 

[johnnydigit]

At least you are honest about it. I am tried of young men who try to foist veils on the heads of their women folk, under the guise of obeying St. Paul. You are obviously not one of those.

ya it’s adorable and i wish everyone would do it, but it’s no big deal if they don’t. c’mon people get a grip! :doh2:

trust in God and His Church. if it was that detrimental to our faith then they would address it for us. they’ve already stated that it’s a personal option, so let people have that option and don’t judge them.

let go and let God. if it bothers you when you see or don’t see it, pray to let it go. you’ll be much happier and stress free.

 

[lizaanne]

Liza, your logic if off, dear. Annie is basing her logic on what the OP posted, which was Scriptural basis. Therefore, the OP should be addressed on the point of Scripture and not Tradition.

I still disagree - we are not a sola scriptura Church. You can not discuss scripture alone, it’s like asking me to walk around with bones but no skin. It just doesn’t work. Our Faith is based on scripture AND tradition - they go hand in hand, and never can they stand alone. So to have a discussion based only on scripture - as a Catholic - is baseless. Regardless of how the OP wishes to discuss the topic. Catholic teaching is not sola scriptura, therefore you can not force the argument to stand on scripture alone.

~Liza

 

[dwc]

I don’t wear one because: 1) to me, it appears to be an affectation; 2) because it is not required by the church, or, far as I can tell, recommended by the teaching authority of the church; 3) would likely cause undue attention at my parish; 4) to me, beyond a basic concern with modest and appropriate attire, it’s far more important to concern myself with my heart, soul, and mind – my inner self determines whether I am pleasing to God – I just don’t believe that wearing a head covering adds a thing to what I am offering Him.

 

[lydiaesther]

Im with you!! I also veil for Jesus out LOVE for him and respect!

:yup: I do. I have a white lace mantilla and a few hats and I go to NO Masses. I started looking into veiling after reading about other women doing it on this forum. The turning point for me was when I came upon pictures of Hilary Clinton, Laura Bush and Condoleeza Rice wearing mantillas. If these ladies are not even Catholic but will show such deference and respect in the presence of the Pope, I felt that I should be doing the same in the Real Presence of Christ. It’s a beautiful tradition.

 

[otjm]

Can someone point to the place in canon law where it states that women no longer have to cover their heads? My understanding is that it simply wasn’t addressed in VII and feminists decided to stop covering their heads for Mass. I wear a hat, scarf, or mantilla to Mass whether it be Novus Ordo or TLM. It is scriptural. Besides, I am rebelling against the feminists.

When Canon Law is changed, a law does not come into effect saying that women do not have to wear a head covering; one knows the law changed when the law requiring it is removed. The most recent major change to Canon Law removed the requirment.

 

[Paulette]

I was taught by an excellent bible teacher that the reason behind head coverings for women mentioned in the bible is that in those days the only women who did not cover their heads were prostitutes who thus used their beautiful coiffures to attract men. Therefore, Christian women were to cover their hair according to the custom of the time, and not to imitate the loose women. May I add that the conditions today are vastly different and therefore not applicable.

I pass this along …because it made sense to me when I heard it.

 

[OutinChgoburbs]

I still disagree - we are not a sola scriptura Church. You can not discuss scripture alone, it’s like asking me to walk around with bones but no skin. It just doesn’t work. Our Faith is based on scripture AND tradition - they go hand in hand, and never can they stand alone. So to have a discussion based only on scripture - as a Catholic - is baseless. Regardless of how the OP wishes to discuss the topic. Catholic teaching is not sola scriptura, therefore you can not force the argument to stand on scripture alone.

~Liza

We are not a sola scriptura Church. But the OP’s basis for “veiling” was directly from Scripture, and based solely on Scripture. Therefore, Annie’s response refuted the use of Scripture solely as a reason to veil.

Paulette, I learned the very same thing, along with a lot of research to veils in the 1st century, the travel of the mantilla to this country (once not considered a true head covering, right up there with the kleenex!), and the history of women’s head coverings in general.

And as I’ve said before this: If ya got em and ya wanna wear em, no biggie. If ya don’t wanna, then don’t, no biggie. I don’t. But I made sure I knew why before I didn’t do it.

 

[palmas85]

On a related note. . . what about men who do cover their heads? It seems like most of the emphasis is placed on women in regards to head covering, but I’ve seen men with covered heads during Mass and I was wondering about that. For example, I was praying in a chapel and the monks wore a hood over their heads. Does that go against the apostolic ordinance?

Thank you all for your opinions, it’s very interesting to read them.

If you noticed, monks will place their cowls on their heads at certain times in the Mass and remove them at certain times. It depends on what exactly is going on at the time. Actions and responses by cloistered communities both male and female during Mass are very very ritualized and stylized and indicate certain things.

 

[RobinTruett]

I would love to wear a mantilla but I would be the only woman in my church that did. It would make me feel uncomfortable to be the only one.

I began wearing a mantilla about 4 mos. ago. the uncomfortableness has begon to fade.A couple of years ago I began falling more in love with the lord and this desire to cover my head be gan to grow (Ihated wearing a veil as a child) so I couldn’t understand where it was coming from.I kept pushing the desire away because we’ve been brainwashed to be like everyone else follow the crowd, but when I read that for 20 yrs. before the new code of canon Law 1983 women began being disobedient in removing thier head covering inspired by femenist didn’t sit well with me. So I did some research and found this to be true. I began talking to other women and many seam to want to veil but are afraid.One of the 83 canon does say when in doubt, look at church tradition.

I was taught by an excellent bible teacher that the reason behind head coverings for women mentioned in the bible is that in those days the only women who did not cover their heads were prostitutes who thus used their beautiful coiffures to attract men. Therefore, Christian women were to cover their hair according to the custom of the time, and not to imitate the loose women. May I add that the conditions today are vastly different and therefore not applicable.

I pass this along …because it made sense to me when I heard it.

Well if you look at the imodesty in the way many of our young ladies dress today maybe something needs to be done( some wear less then the so called loose women of the past. I’m not saying that it should be manditory(I still remember the kleenex on the head) but it think it should be highly incouraged.

Can someone point to the place in canon law where it states that women no longer have to cover their heads? My understanding is that it simply wasn’t addressed in VII and feminists decided to stop covering their heads for Mass. I wear a hat, scarf, or mantilla to Mass whether it be Novus Ordo or TLM. It is scriptural. Besides, I am rebelling against the feminists.

It was never mentioned in VII so when the priest told my moms congregation VII says you don’t have to, they lied. What a shame so many wonderful traditions were lost just to be with the times and at what cost? Weekly attendence on Sunday went from 70% in the 60’s to 20% today.
Code of Canon Law - IntraText
Can. 2 For the most part the Code does not define the rites which must be observed in celebrating liturgical actions. Therefore, liturgical laws in force until now retain their force unless one of them is contrary to the canons of the Code.

Can. 6 §1. When this Code takes force, the following are abrogated:

1/ the Code of Canon Law promulgated in 1917;

Can. 20 A later law abrogates, or derogates from, an earlier law if it states so expressly, is directly contrary to it, or completely reorders the entire matter of the earlier law. A universal law, however, in no way derogates from a particular or special law unless the law expressly provides otherwise.

Can. 27 Custom is the best interpreter of laws.

Laws can be so vage

 

[Marian_Carroll]

GENTLE REMINDER

The covering of women’s hair is not required at the standard Novus Order Mass. Those who prefer Traditional Mass and liturgical practice are directed to: Traditional Catholicism
forums.catholic-questions.org/forumdisplay.php?f=102

The questions posed in this thread are:

but are there any novus ordo women who wear a veil or hat to Mass?

If you are opposed to women’s head coverings, may I ask for what reason? and How do you reconcile your opinion with the preceding passage?

On a related note. . . what about men who do cover their heads? It seems like most of the emphasis is placed on women in regards to head covering, but I’ve seen men with covered heads during Mass and I was wondering about that.

Your assistance in staying with the topic is appreciated.

 

[Ad_Deum]

On a related note. . . what about men who do cover their heads? It seems like most of the emphasis is placed on women in regards to head covering, but I’ve seen men with covered heads during Mass and I was wondering about that. For example, I was praying in a chapel and the monks wore a hood over their heads. Does that go against the apostolic ordinance?

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
There are certain parts in the liturgy where they should cover and uncover their heads (monks, priests, bishops…)
The covering of the head among the clerics depends on what the rubric/ordinance says…
For Traditional Catholic clerics they know when and where to cover and uncover their heads during Mass or other prayer services because it is important for them to know it. In addition to that, it is taught in the seminary, so I don’t see it wrong for a Monk to cover his head if he knows what he is doing.

By the way, it is a great question you ask I hope you find an appropriate response.

The Lord bless and keep you!

 

[pray4U2]

For years I thought and prayed about whether or not to wear “some kind of something” not only to Mass but everyday. I listened to the opinions and I prayed some more. I looked at the arguements(sp?)…

Well, they said we don’t have to. etc. Actually THAT was never said. And I don’t want to get into that except to say that we (women) were lied to.

My decision as of 2 months ago is that I wear a small blue veil. The only time I don’t wear it is to sleep. I don’t do it to appear holier than anyone else. I’m not. You can ask my husband.

For me I wanted to give the world a witness of Jesus. I have been criticized (hopefully that won’t happen here) but all that does is show me that I need to do it all the more.

God calls us all to serve Him in a variety of ways.
No one way is better than the other.
I have chosen this.

And my prayer is that you will love and support me in this. :clapping:

 

[lak611]

For years I thought and prayed about whether or not to wear “some kind of something” not only to Mass but everyday. I listened to the opinions and I prayed some more. I looked at the arguements(sp?)…

Well, they said we don’t have to. etc. Actually THAT was never said. And I don’t want to get into that except to say that we (women) were lied to.

My decision as of 2 months ago is that I wear a small blue veil. The only time I don’t wear it is to sleep. I don’t do it to appear holier than anyone else. I’m not. You can ask my husband.

For me I wanted to give the world a witness of Jesus. I have been criticized (hopefully that won’t happen here) but all that does is show me that I need to do it all the more.

God calls us all to serve Him in a variety of ways.
No one way is better than the other.
I have chosen this.

And my prayer is that you will love and support me in this. :clapping:

Where did it ever say in the New Testament or in the Tradition of the Church that women were ever required to cover their heads all the time, even when they were not in church? That sounds more like a Muslim practice.

 

[pray4U2]

What part of this is confusing? This is not up for debate. :banghead:

I stated my opinion. I posted this in support for any women thinking about doing this. :grouphug:

 

[OutinChgoburbs]

Sure. If it doesn’t bug your husband. Just don’t expect other women to follow you to that extent, or the Pope to issue a motu that all women are required to wear a small blue veil except when they sleep.

 

[maryjk]

What part of this is confusing? This is not up for debate. :banghead:

I stated my opinion. I posted this in support for any women thinking about doing this. :grouphug:

pray4U2:

Well, they said we don’t have to. etc. Actually THAT was never said. And I don’t want to get into that except to say that we (women) were lied to.

Marian Carroll:

GENTLE REMINDER

The covering of women’s hair is not required at the standard Novus Order Mass. Those who prefer Traditional Mass and liturgical practice are directed to: Traditional Catholicism
forums.catholic-questions.org/forumdisplay.php?f=102

So, we were lied to, you don’t want to get into it, you posted only for the support of women that want to cover but don’t and you don’t understand why someone would question you?

Sorry, but since I don’t know you, I require some sort of proof of what you think. If it is just opinion, then you need to say as much when you post.

 

[pray4U2]

Sorry, but since I don’t know you, I require some sort of proof of what you think. If it is just opinion, then you need to say as much when you post.

You are right you don’t know me but you insist on speaking to me like you do. I don’t care what you require.

I am 50 years old, where do you get off telling me how to live my life? I would not dare to criticize or question you about yours. I don’t have the right.

I expressed how I am choosing to live my life, if you don’t like it…TOUGH. I don’t know you. I don’t owe you an explanation just like you don’t owe me any on how you are living your life.

I joined this Forum hoping to experience some compassion.
Oh well, never mind.