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SyroMalankara
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In real life
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Michael68
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Oh, oops. LOL Makes sense now. I know the poster’s story and thought maybe it happened somewhere else.
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rcwitness
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yeah, like Ireland…
far from real life
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Wannano
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I was gone for a while but I will attempt to answer this from my faith perspective as I have understood it. We could measure our life span in months instead of years then we could have birthday parties every month. But that would lose its attraction as it becomes mundane and burdensome. In my tradition Communion is special and usually held twice a year. Keep in mind that , yes, it is not a real presence ceremony as in the Catholic sense, however, in it we sense the special presence of Jesus as we “do this in remembrance of Him.” Our belief is that we have the presence of Jesus fully available to us in our hearts and lives as we obey and submit to His will on a moment by moment basis. We do not understand the Eucharist or Communion to be a vehicle or action by which we receive Jesus each week as we feel He wants to and will when allowed, walk with us in each moment of our life.
Please understand I am not a theologian of any kind and may have presented this in a stumbling fashion.
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Peter_J
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I would ask (for you or any other Protestant reading) do you know of any evidence of early Christians celebrating the Eucharist infrequently?
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Della
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Having once been a believer like you, I understand what you are saying, but you have the wrong impression if you think Catholics who receive every week or indeed, every day find it in any way “mundane and burdensome.” Would you find receiving a thousand dollars every day “mundane and burdensome?” Of course not. So how can you think that receiving Christ himself could in any way be either “mundane or burdensome.” Christ gave us himself in the Eucharist for several reasons. I’ll give you a few. Firstly, he promised he’d be with us until the end of the world. Do you realize that somewhere in the world right now the Mass is being celebrated and that Christ himself is present on those altars? That the Mass is celebrated around the world 24/7 every day? He left us the Eucharist so that we would have him in us, body and blood, soul and divinity. He gave us the Eucharist to nourish our souls and strengthen us to fight the good fight. We receive saving grace in the Eucharist. And so on. Why would anyone want to set aside those gifts for any reason at all? Those who do deprive themselves of all that God has for them, as if God doesn’t know us better than we know ourselves and what is for our good.
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Wannano
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Della, please consider that I did not say Catholics see the frequency of the Eucharist as mundane or burdensome. I can not speak for you. I was pointing out that most things we do very frequently can become mundane. I understand that you get your “spiritual gas tank” filled at each Eucharist. And I am not knocking you for that experience. Like Jesus said He would be with us always so if other folks experience Him to be with them always, every day, every moment without the Eucharist as you know it does it really mean that they have deprived themselves of all that God has for them? Can you really speak for them if they believe they are in God’s will and experiencing Him and they have results of His presence in their lives, how can someone else judge their relationship with God if there is nothing unbiblical in their conviction?Having once been a believer like you, I understand what you are saying, but you have the wrong impression if you think Catholics who receive every week or indeed, every day find it in any way “mundane and burdensome.” Would you find receiving a thousand dollars every day “mundane and burdensome?” Of course not. So how can you think that receiving Christ himself could in any way be either “mundane or burdensome.” Christ gave us himself in the Eucharist for several reasons. I’ll give you a few. Firstly, he promised he’d be with us until the end of the world. Do you realize that somewhere in the world right now the Mass is being celebrated and that Christ himself is present on those altars? That the Mass is celebrated around the world 24/7 every day? He left us the Eucharist so that we would have him in us, body and blood, soul and divinity. He gave us the Eucharist to nourish our souls and strengthen us to fight the good fight. We receive saving grace in the Eucharist. And so on. Why would anyone want to set aside those gifts for any reason at all? Those who do deprive themselves of all that God has for them, as if God doesn’t know us better than we know ourselves and what is for our good.
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rcwitness
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So long as Scripture does not become “mundane and burdensome” and His Sacrifice is so appreciated, and we journey in the wilderness, we will celebrate His Body and Blood which paid the price of our forgiveness and eternal life.
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simspt
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You are joking right!?Idk about that. With all respect and I do know your posts so I dont mean you in this matter. But I again feel in this forum Protestants are numerous times accused of being heretics and rejecting the one true faith and even one quoted to me a Church father saying we are not going to heaven (maybe not his words, but he quoted it none the less). So honestly my whole family in law are Catholic and I never got that idea from them. I prefer not to believe this is the case but posters in this forum makes it hard for me. Just a thought, maybe real world is different but on this forum there are more subjective Protestant bashing then anything else (yea we see it). But then again it’s a Catholic forum
The anti-Catholic bigotry that comes out of fundamentalist churches is notorious. (I was in one for 17 years) Anti-Protestant heretical polemic pales in comparison…Thats incontrovertible. To the fundamentalist’s defense most just aren’t aware of the historical Church or the development of doctrine within it that they take for granted.
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Della
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We humans tend to see the air we breath as mundane or the water we drink, even our families, but we don’t say we only need them once in a great while so we can appreciate them better, do we?
We only consider burdensome those things we feel are imposed on us. Anyone who sees the availability to receive Christ himself at Mass as burdensome needs a bit of education and a rethink, yes?Oh yes, they are depriving themselves of the greatest gift we can receive this side of heaven.
That doesn’t mean they have no relationship with God nor that they relationship with God is not good enough, etc. I am not judging anyone’s spirituality with my comments. I’m merely pointing out that if one denies oneself all that God has to offer, what else can it be called than deprivation? Many Catholics deprive themselves of all that God has to offer them by being lax Catholics, even though they know what they could have and don’t receive out of a mistaken idea that they don’t need it except at Christmas and Easter. Those who are lax in the practice of their Catholic faith are far behind any Protestant who is active in his faith, that’s for certain.I am inviting our Protestant brethren to come and receive–to be reconciled to the Church–to be one with us again. Those Protestants who are close to Christ will find that relationship grow even deeper if they come into full communion with the Church. It can only be for the good to do so. When I was a Protestant I had a good relationship with Christ. I didn’t think there was anything more, but there was. Receiving Christ in the Eucharist is the most biblical thing any Christian can do–along with all the good things faithful Protestants already do and believe.
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TC3033
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I guess I need to disagree with you. From my experience in the Parish(s) that I’ve needed to be a part of it’s alive, well, and constant.
But we’re basing it of personal experience. Yes, the anti-Catholic rhetoric that comes from fundamentalist churches is notorious, but I believe those churches are pretty few and far between.
Same as the anti-Protestant rhetoric/practices I’ve run into at the couple of Parish’s I’ve needed to attend. I believe that I attend church in Parish(s) that are a bit older and carry that belief (and enjoy vocalizing it) that if you’re not Catholic, you’re a 2nd class Christian not destine for heaven.
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rcwitness
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Yes, I’m fine with not crying, “victim”…
All we can do is follow Him how we are compelled and so instruct our young, in the faith, what we believe.
I don’t care for swinging a “big stick” of authority. And I don’t care for demonizing other Christians.
It does get tiresome when I look online and see many, so called Christians, making all sorts of varied claims against the Catholic Church. But I also think some criticism is fair. Peter was criticized for mistreating the gentile converts. No one is above faults. Own up to our own and grow in grace and charity. It’s the challenge. Do our part in our community to build up the Church, for the Lord’s sake. Ho or all men, for the Lord’s sake. Submit to authority, for the Lord’s sake. Admonish one another, for the Lord’s sake. Do all things, for the Lord’s sake.
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MichaelP3
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Good day simspt.
I have not seen a post from you before. Pleased to meet you.
You use a lot of big words there. If you were in one of those fundamentalist Churches for 17 years, I am really sorry to hear that. But I guess you missed the point.
I was referring to this forum. And even using the word heretic proves my point. I generally don’t respond to those but you seem quite emotional about this so I am giving you the benefit of the doubt. Maybe try, and that’s a mere request to read all the posts around here and even if you don’t agree, just try to see my point.
Your last part on all the history and that is an assumption. Have a look, I have delved many times into history as well as posts containing assumptions. Whatever you prefer.
And lastly, no I am not joking. That is a very "interesting " way to start your post, if I wanted a Laugh I’d be watching comedy central.
PS: in a summary, your post was pretty attacking and if you’d like to talk nicely about it, I am open.
All the best
Michael
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Della
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I have to defend the word heretic, which is a perfectly serviceable word if used correctly.Good day simspt.
I have not seen a post from you before. Pleased to meet you.
You use a lot of big words there. If you were in one of those fundamentalist Churches for 17 years, I am really sorry to hear that. But I guess you missed the point.
I was referring to this forum. And even using the word heretic proves my point. I generally don’t respond to those but you seem quite emotional about this so I am giving you the benefit of the doubt. Maybe try, and that’s a mere request to read all the posts around here and even if you don’t agree, just try to see my point.
Your last part on all the history and that is an assumption. Have a look, I have delved many times into history as well as posts containing assumptions. Whatever you prefer.
And lastly, no I am not joking. That is a very "interesting " way to start your post, if I wanted a Laugh I’d be watching comedy central.
PS: in a summary, your post was pretty attacking and if you’d like to talk nicely about it, I am open.
All the best
Michael
There are two kinds of heretics. 1) A formal heretic is one who leaves his religious affiliation to embrace something else, be it another religion or philosophy. This is a conscious decision on his part. 2) A material heretic, otoh, is one who belongs to a ecclesial body derived from the parent body who belongs to it either by birth or through no conscience decision to be separated from the parent religion. No judgment is meant by using the words formal heretic or material heretic. They simply describe the person’s standing with regards to his original religious affiliation. Sadly, in modern times the word heretic has become a pejorative, and so is no longer useful in interfaith discussions, except between people who have the original definitions in mind. :tiphat: I don’t use the word heretic in discussions for this reason.
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Lenten_ashes
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Hi Michael, I think you are the exception, not the norm. Most of the fundamentalists I have encountered outside internet forums, and there are plenty, have little to no knowledge on Church history or the origin of the canon they hold so dear… or anything else that happened prior to Martin Luther. In fact, many do not know much about Luther, himself.
If you are a fundamentalist or even just a run of the mill SS practicing Christian, you typically don’t feel the need to know what ECF’s said or who died for the faith, etc, etc. You have the Word of God and the Spirit will lead you to all truth. (John 16:13) This mentality becomes ingrained into the mind. And that was one of Luther’s goal in his revolt, to focus on the written word, so in that respect, he succeeded.
And BTW, I appreciate your desire to understand Catholic teaching. Reading the Catechism cover to cover as a protestant is a impressive feat as I don’t even know many Catholics who have done that.
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Peter_J
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I would just like to suggest, try to see what your local RC parish is like. I would bet that it’s pretty, shall we say, non bashing, non anti, etc. (Admittely I cannot guarantee that because there can be exceptions – see TC’s posts about his local parish.)Good day simspt.
I have not seen a post from you before. Pleased to meet you.
You use a lot of big words there. If you were in one of those fundamentalist Churches for 17 years, I am really sorry to hear that. But I guess you missed the point.
I was referring to this forum. And even using the word heretic proves my point. I generally don’t respond to those but you seem quite emotional about this so I am giving you the benefit of the doubt. Maybe try, and that’s a mere request to read all the posts around here and even if you don’t agree, just try to see my point.
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Peter_J
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MichaelP3
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Have been there numerous times. Great people and even a very lively atmosphere that evangelicals will find acceptable. Actually the priest has homolies that can last an hour. No joking .
I have stated many times I have no problem with Catholics. It’s rather a problem that they have a problem with me and all the interesting linguistics associated with it. I am not here to convert anyone, rather to understand why any Catholic feels the need to convert me.
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Wannano
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Sorry I missed this earlier somehow. Yes, I choose to see the Catholic Church as His Church just as I see all the others as a part of His Church. I do not see the CC as the one and only, nor any one other church as the one and only true church. Jesus is truth and He is the vine, we are the branches.
Do I dare be thankful I am not like other men? …no, God be merciful to me a sinner!
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MichaelP3
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Thank you LA for the response!
I didn’t know much about Luther until very late. I am not trying to defend my “Sunday School” but we generally focused on Bible stories. The history thing is something someone will have to want to check out for themselves.
As you stated before in many numerous Luther posts, I still agree with you.
On the Catechism. It is a great read, I would commend any non-catholic to do that, for every 1 thing you may not agree with, you will find 100 things you do.
Regards
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