No not completely. See my post #46. But I think I understand the Church spells out what She sees as mortal sins and therefore does say what will condemn a Catholic if not Sacramentally repented. What I don’t understand is how this is not identifying. If John Doe, a practicing Catholic does not remain so and does not receive the Sacrament of Reconciliation or Anointing prior to death, then how is the Church not identifying John Doe as hellbound when She says such a person could not be saved?
Hi again CMatt,
The Church can not know and makes no claim to know among those who are outside of the visible Church, whether they are guilty of “knowing that the Catholic Church was made necessary by Christ.” This teaching is benign, almost toothless. I can’t know the hearts either, but it seems unlikely that very many of those who stay outside the Catholic Church or of those who would leave would ever qualify for “knowing that the Catholic Church was made necessary by Christ.”
My other concern is about why you keep saying that this sin, if it has ever been committed, would have to be sacramentally repented. That is contrary to the mercy of God and the teaching of the Church. Obviously, those outside the Church are not going to avail themselves of the ordinary means of grace and salvation via the Sacraments. But the Church definitively teaches that God is not bound to the Sacraments.
There is a wonderful story told by Abbe Trucho in his biography of the Cure of Ars, St. Jean Vianney, that is fully compatible with the teaching of the Church regarding the way we may hope for the salvation of ANYBODY. The good saint saw a poor lady in deep grief in his church one day. Her husband, a blasphemer who disregarded his wife’s pleas to be reconciled with the Catholic Church, had leapt from a bridge, committing suicide. This was the cause of her grief, having almost no hope for his salvation. The Cure, however was given insight from God into the final condition of things for this soul. It would seem that unknown to his wife, the man had once or twice passed a statue of the Blessed Virgin which he had allowed his wife to keep in their home, and he secretly prayed an Ave without anyone’s knowledge, while continuing with his obstinate ways, even up to the point of almost final despair. Consoling the woman, who had never even revealed the cause of her grief, the Cure not only knew the cause, but could comfort her with the revelation that before he struck the water, a miracle of perfect contrition was permitted her husband as a favor for having said those secret Aves, and though in purgatory, he was saved and would be in heaven forever!
You have to agree that is a wonderful story. Even if one doesn’t have the faith to believe the story it illustrates what some of us have been trying to say to you about the merciful teachings of the Catholic faith. The Church would have us hope for every soul that has ever died. That doesn’t mean it is always a good hope. Assuredly, the poor widow in the story above had many miore reasons to fear than to hope for her husband. But no one knows how many who lived their lives in opposition to the Catholic Church have been saved in ways similar to the suicide described in the biography of the Cure of Ars. Our Lady of Fatima admonishes us to add to the prayers of the Rosary, “Oh my Jesus, forgive us our sins, save all souls from hell, ESPECIALLY THOSE MOST IN NEED OF THY MERCY.”
CMatt, you seem to think the Catholic Church is in conflict with the merciful and good God who wills the salvation of every soul. It is truly painful for me to see a struggling brother so apparently blind to the love for all men that is manifested in this and all the teachings of the Catholic Church. I am trying very hard because it seems to me, that if you continue to have these unnecessary misgivings, you will not remain Catholic. You can’t love the Church while thinking she is harsh and judgmental. These are serious charges that you raise against her. Allow me to summarize for now how I understand the question you have raised.
#1) The Catholic Church does not judge the hearts of men.
#2) Those outside the Catholic Church may be saved non-sacramentally.
#3) Those inside the Catholic Church may be saved non-sacramentally.
#4) Any guilt associated with Lumen Gentium 14, is contingent. It is contingent on something that no one can know except God, namely, the level of knowledge required to be responsible and accountable to be affiliated with the Catholic Church. Since the guilt is acknowledged to be contingent upon information that no one has except God, it is erroneous to assert on the basis of this teaching that the Catholic Church is guilty of “judging salvation.”
God bless you dear brother. I’ll keep you in prayers.
Rory
If the Church spells out x, y, z, or you could not be saved. And a Catholic does not adhere to x, y, z, and does not Sacramentally repent before death, then why say they could not be saved if they don’t know?