Just a suggestion

[Tandem]

I have seen many people who are upset because they are “forced” to do business with people whose lifestyle they consider contrary to their religious belief. They consider this “force” to be a direct attack on their beliefs. Well, I have good news for them.

No one is forced to accommodate everyone from the public, if they operate their business as a private club. Just look at any country club, or Sam’s Club… they all restrict their accommodation to those who have a membership card. Or, to stay close to home, the CAF can pick and choose who will get access to the board, and it can revoke the membership privileges any time and does not have to explain it to anyone.

So the solution is simple. Just declare up front: “This business is a private club. It does not cater to the general public. You need to have a membership card in order to be admitted here. We reserve the right to refuse membership and we can revoke your membership privileges at any time. We do not have to explain our procedures.” And at the time when someone applies for a membership, they must sign a consent form and accept the rules.

That is it. You can (if you want to) declare what kind of people are not welcome. But you don’t need to antagonize anyone. You could say “only orthodox Christians are accepted (who share the owners’ value system)”.

What could be simpler?

 

[Strydersroom]

That nice “straights only” sign in the window would sure be great for business

 

[sugarmouse]

That nice “straights only” sign in the window would sure be great for business

Except that Christian bakers and florists aren’t catering to “straights only”. They serve anyone. It’s just that there are some events that they don’t want to cater for, which should be up to them. If they can refuse to take part in a divorce party (yes, they exist, unfortunately) on moral grounds, then they can refuse to take part in same-sex “weddings” on moral grounds.

 

[Strydersroom]

Except that Christian bakers and florists aren’t catering to “straights only”. They serve anyone. It’s just that there are some events that they don’t want to cater for, which should be up to them. If they can refuse to take part in a divorce party (yes, they exist, unfortunately) on moral grounds, then they can refuse to take part in same-sex “weddings” on moral grounds.

That’s not what this thread is about.

 

[Trident_H]

That’s not what this thread is about.

It is now

 

[mommy_k]

“Certain types of people”.

Did you know that you are a certain type of person too? Everyone is. This is a recipe for disaster-- sheesh.

If a business owner does not want to compromise religious beliefs, he or she can just be busy. No political drama needed.

 

[Tandem]

Except that Christian bakers and florists aren’t catering to “straights only”. They serve anyone. It’s just that there are some events that they don’t want to cater for, which should be up to them.

Actually, it is NOT up to them, as long as they cater to the open public. However… read on.

If they can refuse to take part in a divorce party (yes, they exist, unfortunately) on moral grounds, then they can refuse to take part in same-sex “weddings” on moral grounds.

A private club can declare any and all kinds of rules they want - and NO ONE can dispute their rights to do so. They can declare that even homosexuals are welcome as long as they don’t want do something that the owners disagree with - as long as these rules are declared in the membership application. What else do those business owners want? Legal discrimination, protected by law.

Of course they will have to face the consequences of their decisions.

 

[adamhovey1988]

I’ll bake a gay person a cake. But not for a wedding. Since gays can’t get married, no matter what the supreme court says. Personally, I don’t see why these folks can’t just take their business elsewhere:shrug:

 

[Strydersroom]

I’ll bake a gay person a cake. But not for a wedding. Since gays can’t get married, no matter what the supreme court says. Personally, I don’t see why these folks can’t just take their business elsewhere:shrug:

Actually I am and did get married, no matter what you say.

 

[Trident_H]

I’ll bake a gay person a cake. But not for a wedding. Since gays can’t get married, no matter what the supreme court says. Personally, I don’t see why these folks can’t just take their business elsewhere:shrug:

Yeah. I’d really rather a guy not bake me a cake if he really doesn’t want to. I mean I don’t think I’d let my guests eat that cake.

 

[CB_Catholic]

A bad idea. We had enough of this before the Civil rights movement in the 50’s and 60’s.

 

[Entwhistler]

I have seen many people who are upset because they are “forced” to do business with people whose lifestyle they consider contrary to their religious belief. They consider this “force” to be a direct attack on their beliefs. Well, I have good news for them.

No one is forced to accommodate everyone from the public, if they operate their business as a private club. Just look at any country club, or Sam’s Club… they all restrict their accommodation to those who have a membership card. Or, to stay close to home, the CAF can pick and choose who will get access to the board, and it can revoke the membership privileges any time and does not have to explain it to anyone.

So the solution is simple. Just declare up front: “This business is a private club. It does not cater to the general public. You need to have a membership card in order to be admitted here. We reserve the right to refuse membership and we can revoke your membership privileges at any time. We do not have to explain our procedures.” And at the time when someone applies for a membership, they must sign a consent form and accept the rules.

That is it. You can (if you want to) declare what kind of people are not welcome. But you don’t need to antagonize anyone. You could say “only orthodox Christians are accepted (who share the owners’ value system)”.

What could be simpler?

That’s the whole idea with private property. You own your house, you land, your car, and you don’t have to let anyone in it or on it if you don’t want to. The same goes for all your property, including your business (if you own it).

 

[mikekle]

Ive been in plenty of privately owned businesses that have signs up reading “We have the right to deny service to anyone for any reason”.

Ive seen this in local restaurants, dry cleaners, a video rental place, hardware store, etc. Im not sure why they thought to place them, but Im sure they had good reason, and Im sure if it was not accurate, they would not waste time posting it.

Recently a restaurant owner not far from me, had an incident which was all the local news for a few days, she had one of these signs and apparently they had a woman come in with 3 kids, the kids were making all kinds of noise, running around, disturbing other diners, and she kicked the woman out, and no longer allows children, its an adult only restaurant now, at first she got alot of flack about this, but since that day, she has had lines of people wanting to eat there, showing their support for doing this, basically its her right, she is the owner and can refuse to serve whomever she likes and for whatever reason.

 

[Della]

Special events like weddings don’t just hire people to bake cakes, do flowers, take pictures now days with separate businesses delivering separate items. They are catered with wedding coordinators who arrange for all those things and hire those they need for the job. Hiring an individual bakery, flower shop, photographer, even dressmaker/seller is quickly becoming passé. Which I think is a good thing because it will take the onus of political correctness off individual businesses that produce the various elements in a modern Western wedding.

As for me, I’d bake anyone a cake, if I were a baker. It’s none of my business what they’re going to do with the thing–and it is just a thing not a “statement” for the seller only the buyer–if that’s how they wish to see it. The same with flowers, etc. I am not the morality police. I don’t tell people what they can and cannot do.

I act according to my beliefs in all things. And my beliefs tell me to reach out to people not to shut them down because I disagree with their decisions in personal moral issues. I wouldn’t help someone rob a bank or commit an act of terror, or help someone get an abortion, but I wouldn’t drive people away from a business merely because I didn’t like what they were going to do with a product they want to buy from me. I don’t believe I would be breaking any Catholic morals since I wouldn’t abetting their actions by serving them in a public business open to all, either.

Jesus didn’t condemn the woman caught in adultery, and yes he told her to go and sin no more, but he is God and could read her heart. My heart tells me that he’d want me to take a kinder approach to those with whom I disagree by selling them whatever I sell and leave their judgment to God.

 

[Strydersroom]

Ive been in plenty of privately owned businesses that have signs up reading “We have the right to deny service to anyone for any reason”.

Ive seen this in local restaurants, dry cleaners, a video rental place, hardware store, etc. Im not sure why they thought to place them, but Im sure they had good reason, and Im sure if it was not accurate, they would not waste time posting it.

Recently a restaurant owner not far from me, had an incident which was all the local news for a few days, she had one of these signs and apparently they had a woman come in with 3 kids, the kids were making all kinds of noise, running around, disturbing other diners, and she kicked the woman out, and no longer allows children, its an adult only restaurant now, at first she got alot of flack about this, but since that day, she has had lines of people wanting to eat there, showing their support for doing this, basically its her right, she is the owner and can refuse to serve whomever she likes and for whatever reason.

How about for being Black or being Gay? She cannot refuse service because of this, and if she does she will rightfully be out of business quite soon.

 

[Della]

How about for being Black or being Gay? She cannot refuse service because of this, and if she does she will rightfully be out of business quite soon.

Apples and oranges. Blacks and gays go to restaurants to eat, not be disruptive. While the mom’s intention wasn’t to be disruptive, she didn’t control her kids, who were. So, the owner, thinking of her other customers, asked her to leave and decided to no longer allow children to dine there. So, she turned her restaurant from a family one to an adults only one. Bars and adults-only entertainment establishments have the same rules for different reasons. They also have bouncers for rowdy customers and are within their rights to bar them from coming back. It’s not against the law in the USA to make such designations.

 

[Strydersroom]

Apples and oranges. Blacks and gays go to restaurants to eat, not be disruptive. While the mom’s intention wasn’t to be disruptive, she didn’t control her kids, who were. So, the owner, thinking of her other customers, asked her to leave and decided to no longer allow children to dine there. So, she turned her restaurant from a family one to an adults only one. Bars and adults-only entertainment establishments have the same rules for different reasons. They also have bouncers for rowdy customers and are within their rights to bar them from coming back. It’s not against the law in the USA to make such designations.

I agree about noisy kids being a valid reason, but you said “basically its her right, she is the owner and can refuse to serve whomever she likes and for whatever reason.” I am just pointing out that you can not refuse service for all reasons, specifically race, creed, religion or sexual orientation which is what these “religious freedom” bills are all about: allowing a business to refuse service precisely because someone is gay.

 

[Della]

I agree about noisy kids being a valid reason, but you said “basically its her right, she is the owner and can refuse to serve whomever she likes and for whatever reason.” I am just pointing out that you can not refuse service for all reasons, specifically race, creed, religion or sexual orientation which is what these “religious freedom” bills are all about: allowing a business to refuse service precisely because someone is gay.

No, I didn’t say that she is the owner and can refuse to serve whomever she likes and for whatever reason. :tsktsk: I was quite specific and used solid examples of exactly what I meant.

 

[Trident_H]

I agree about noisy kids being a valid reason, but you said “basically its her right, she is the owner and can refuse to serve whomever she likes and for whatever reason.” I am just pointing out that you can not refuse service for all reasons, specifically race, creed, religion or sexual orientation which is what these “religious freedom” bills are all about: allowing a business to refuse service precisely because someone is gay.

I don’t care really. Refuse to serve me. See if I care. I’ll got to a business that will. It’s fine. Then I’ll tell my friends. And they’ll tell theirs. And so on.

Or? Or I can have a disgruntled guy filling my hamburger with who knows what. I’d rather he told me up front than get that.

Freedom should swing both ways. I’m free to buy from you? Or you’re free to sell to who you want? A bit of each? I have no problem with that.

Sort of creates business opportunities. Actually.

Peace.

-Trident

 

[Della]

I don’t care really. Refuse to serve me. See if I care. I’ll got to a business that will. It’s fine. Then I’ll tell my friends. And they’ll tell theirs. And so on.

Or? Or I can have a disgruntled guy filling my hamburger with who knows what. I’d rather he told me up front than get that.

Freedom should swing both ways. I’m free to buy from you? Or you’re free to sell to who you want? A bit of each? I have no problem with that.

Sort of creates business opportunities. Actually.

Peace.

-Trident

Yes, that’s how businesses gain and lose customers. Thinking that we cannot deny anyone any service opens the door to abuses of the opposite kind than Strydersroom intends. It also means businesses can be intimidated into supporting ideologies they disagree with by city, county, state, federal officials telling them where they must stand on any issue the government decides they must. Such as they tried to do with Chick-fil-a. Any company can support or not support any political movement, ideology, position they like without fear of intimidation by the government or anyone else. And bakers and flower sellers shouldn’t be forced into re-education and given fines to get them to agree to what is against their beliefs, either. It works both ways, people. Remember that.