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ncgolf
Guest
What is your criteria for identifying the true Church? What must it have to be authentic?
It is is much richer discussion if we know why or why not you believe what you do.
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It is is much richer discussion if we know why or why not you believe what you do.
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rockyankeeswon
Guest
I suspect that the only proof you would except would be nothing less than a clear and direct scriptural passage?
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rockyankeeswon
Guest
If your talking about things that dont seem to be explicitly mentioned in scripture and they produce good fruit without any real contradiction then i would also agree!
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rockyankeeswon
Guest
R
rockyankeeswon
Guest
I also seem to have a similar problem!
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jmcrae
Guest
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blossom02
Guest
I don’t know if this will help or if all the dates are perfect or not.
If you are a Lutheran, your religion was founded by Martin Luther, an ex- monk of the Catholic Church, in the year 1517.
If you belong to the Church of England, your religion was founded by King Henry VIII in the year 1534 because the Pope would not grant him a divorce with the right to remarry.
If you are a Presbyterian, your religion was founded by John Knox in Scotland in the year 1560.
If you are a Protestant Episcopalian, your religion was an offshoot of the Church of England founded by Samuel Seabury in the American colonies in the 17th century.
If you are a Congregationalist, your religion was originated by Robert Brown in Holland in 1582.
If you are a Methodist, your religion was launched by John and Charles Wesley in England in 1744.
If you are a Unitarian, Theophilus Lindley founded your church in London in 1774.
If you are a Mormon (Latter Day Saints), Joseph Smith started your religion in Palmyra, N.Y., in 1829.
If you are a Baptist, you owe the tenets of your religion to John Smyth, who launched it in Amsterdam in 1605.
If you are of the Dutch Reformed church, you recognize Michaelis Jones as founder, because he originated your religion in New York in 1628.
If you worship with the Salvation Army, your sect began with William Booth in London in 1865.
If you are a Christian Scientist, you look to 1879 as the year in which your religion was born and to Mrs. Mary Baker Eddy as its founder.
If you belong to one of the religious organizations known as ‘Church of the Nazarene,” “Pentecostal Gospel.” “Holiness Church,” “Pilgrim Holiness Church,” “Jehovah’s Witnesses,” your religion is one of the hundreds of new sects founded by men within the past century.
If you are Catholic, you know that your religion was founded in the year 33 by Jesus Christ the Son of God, and it is still the same Church.
We, the Catholic Church, are the FIRST Christians!
Sincerely,
If you are a Lutheran, your religion was founded by Martin Luther, an ex- monk of the Catholic Church, in the year 1517.
If you belong to the Church of England, your religion was founded by King Henry VIII in the year 1534 because the Pope would not grant him a divorce with the right to remarry.
If you are a Presbyterian, your religion was founded by John Knox in Scotland in the year 1560.
If you are a Protestant Episcopalian, your religion was an offshoot of the Church of England founded by Samuel Seabury in the American colonies in the 17th century.
If you are a Congregationalist, your religion was originated by Robert Brown in Holland in 1582.
If you are a Methodist, your religion was launched by John and Charles Wesley in England in 1744.
If you are a Unitarian, Theophilus Lindley founded your church in London in 1774.
If you are a Mormon (Latter Day Saints), Joseph Smith started your religion in Palmyra, N.Y., in 1829.
If you are a Baptist, you owe the tenets of your religion to John Smyth, who launched it in Amsterdam in 1605.
If you are of the Dutch Reformed church, you recognize Michaelis Jones as founder, because he originated your religion in New York in 1628.
If you worship with the Salvation Army, your sect began with William Booth in London in 1865.
If you are a Christian Scientist, you look to 1879 as the year in which your religion was born and to Mrs. Mary Baker Eddy as its founder.
If you belong to one of the religious organizations known as ‘Church of the Nazarene,” “Pentecostal Gospel.” “Holiness Church,” “Pilgrim Holiness Church,” “Jehovah’s Witnesses,” your religion is one of the hundreds of new sects founded by men within the past century.
If you are Catholic, you know that your religion was founded in the year 33 by Jesus Christ the Son of God, and it is still the same Church.
We, the Catholic Church, are the FIRST Christians!
Sincerely,
S
stmaria
Guest
There are a couple of problems with your statement. First you say you believe in the Bible but what interpretation of the Bible do you believe? If you are Protestant you have private interpretation which would undoubtly lead you into believing in error.This is why there are so many Protestant denominations. If you are Catholic you abide by the interpretation given by the Church. In that way there is no ambiguity
Your second problem is to define leading a “good” life. By that I suppose you mean a good “moral” life. But how do you define “moral”?
Many Protestant say that using contraceptives is morally right.
Many Protestants say that divorce and then remarriage is morally right. Both are morally wrong.
Christ said that he would send the Holy Spirit to instruct and to teach His Church after his Resurrection. There is only ONE Church that is instructed by the Holy Spirit. It is the one that has unchanged doctrine for 2,000years. Protestant denominations are only 450 years old. Only the Catholic Church was there from the beginning. It is His Church. There is only one Divinely revealed religion.
John 14:26 “The Paraclete, the Holy Spirit whom the Father will send in my name, will instruct you in everything, and remind you of all that I told you”
King James John 14:26 “ But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.”
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jblake
Guest
ralphinal;:
xan
jonathon
That is when you sit down and you carefully study the Bible. And apply the principles within the Bible to determine whether or not cloning is scripturally acceptable.
The use of that material is not restricted to just Catholic Christianity, or Orthodox Christianity. For that matter, it is equally useful to read the commentary that the 6,000 year old tradition has. Or the 1,400 year old tradition has.
+1
xan
jonathon
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SIA
Guest
I don’t agree. The Bible is inherantly God’s holy word. That is like saying without Mary, Jesus would have never been here. If it is God’s will to be, then it is, period!
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jmcrae
Guest
If Mary had said “No,” then Jesus would not have become Man. She was the chosen one. There were no other immaculate virgins hanging around waiting to be understudies for her.
When Eve went against God’s will, God did not destroy her and create a new one. He simply adjusted His plan to take her sin into account.
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jblake
Guest
blossom02;:
b) Precisely where and when the arose is a matter of debate. Smythe is only one of a dozen or so individuals to which baptists can point to as being part of their documented history. (He also comes about a century and a half after their “early” people.)
xan
jonathon
Luther didn’t want to start a new church. What he wanted to do was clean up the corruption within the Roman Catholic Church. The Pope decided to excommunicate Luther, rather than cleaning up the corruption. (For the record, later Popes did clean up the corruption that Luther was railing against.)
He tried to reform from within, and was thrown out.
As you quoted earlier, The Church of England was founded by Henry VIII. Seabury founded a church, only in the same sense that Methodius founded a new church.
He was also trying to reform from within, and was thrown out of the church he was in.
Wesley was trying to reform the Anglican Church. He had no desire, or intention to create a new denomination. (If you read his work, he rants against the people that formed the Methodist Church. He wanted people to study the Bible, and practice Holiness within the Anglican church. ) The Anglican church was very alarmed by the influx of new people, and the practices that Wesley taught. (Pray. Study the Bible. Pray without ceasing. Seek the Holy in everything. Do everything as an act of Holiness.)
a) Landmark Baptists trace their theology (and history) back to the Donatists of the fourth century. (I’ve a vuage recollection of reading a history that traces them back to AD 30, but don’t remember the details.)
b) Precisely where and when the arose is a matter of debate. Smythe is only one of a dozen or so individuals to which baptists can point to as being part of their documented history. (He also comes about a century and a half after their “early” people.)
Are you deliberately ignoring the Synod of Emden (1571)? For at least a century prior to that Synod, there had been independent churches in The Netherlands.
He did not intentionally start a new church. Booth had a parachurch operation, and wanted to funnel converts to local Methodist churches. They were very unhappy with that process, because his converts were, “not proper people”. Booth worked with what were then, and now, the "dregs’ of society. and the Methodists were too high and mighty to realize that anybody can receive the Grace of God, and be saved. Booth did ask other denominations if he could send his converts to them, for discipleship. Their reaction was as intolerant as that of the Methodists. FWIW, the Salvation Army still tries to funnel people to other churches. (There are few things as weird as watching a Salvationist, and minister from another denomination arguing that a convert should become a member of the other’s church. [Classic line “And why you can’t teach him to grow in the Lord?”])
The Coptic Church would disagree with you on that issue.
xan
jonathon
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justinthemartyr
Guest
let them.
the church never was centered in africa
the church never was centered in africa
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whatisthetruth
Guest
Bump
hmmm?? Just the bible??
The following web page gives a great answer
justforcatholics.org/a18.htm
I was Catholic and it is in the bible you will find…
Matthew 16:18(KJV)
And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
which is the foundation of teaching to which blossom said,
m-w.com/dictionary
the definition of catholic is
However
Roman Catholic has a different meaning.
I believe there are many catholic/universal churches in the world which are solely built on God’s word, the bible and no other book.
From the following web page
justforcatholics.org/a71.htm
One True Catholic Church
For more answers visit justforcatholics.org/answers.htm
May we all agree on the truth of His word
Fish
hmmm?? Just the bible??
The following web page gives a great answer
justforcatholics.org/a18.htm
I was Catholic and it is in the bible you will find…
Matthew 16:18(KJV)
And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
which is the foundation of teaching to which blossom said,
According to Merriam Webster
m-w.com/dictionary
the definition of catholic is
I agree Jesus expressed his plans to build His catholic or universal church for all mankind in the bible.
However
Roman Catholic has a different meaning.
now the question becomes, was it Jesus intent to build His catholic/universal church into what the Roman Catholic Church has become?
I believe there are many catholic/universal churches in the world which are solely built on God’s word, the bible and no other book.
From the following web page
justforcatholics.org/a71.htm
One True Catholic Church
Not the Roman Catholic Church
Ephesians 5:24-30 (KJV)
word is the bible
I believe the answer to boogs’ question
Absolutely. The bible is the only true word of God
the catholic/universal church is the church Jesus established not the Roman Catholic Church system.
For more answers visit justforcatholics.org/answers.htm
May we all agree on the truth of His word
Fish
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JMMK
Guest
Roman Catholic Church is a misnomer. The name is the Catholic Church. The Roman aspect is a discipline. Sometimes referred to as the Latin or Roman rite. There are several other rites within the Catholic Church.
The only True Word was Jesus Himself. Everything else was inspired Truth.
The only True Word was Jesus Himself. Everything else was inspired Truth.
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jmcrae
Guest
That’s right. So, we trace back through history to find who is the Church Leader of today who is the direct descendant of the Apostle Peter, and we find only one who is clearly qualified - Pope Benedict XVI. The See of Antioch is also descended from the Apostle Peter (although because he did not die in Antioch, it is unlikely that he passed his Papal (meaning “leader of the whole Church”) authority to his successor there) - at present, there are five claimants to the See of Antioch, three of whom are already in full communion with Rome.
Guess what - the only Church in the world that is open to all mankind is the Catholic Church in union with the Bishop of Rome. Everything else is either language-restricted (must speak English, for example) or else national (Greek Orthodox, Scottish Presbyterian, Anglican [means “the English Church”], etc.)
The Latin Rite of the Catholic Church is only one of the 24 Rites of what is commonly referred to as the “Roman Catholic Church” - we are, in fact, world-wide.
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jblake
Guest
jmcrae;:
xan
jonathon
When did the Roman Catholic church allow foundlings that were baptized to be confirmed? Or to go through RCIA?
xan
jonathon
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ralphinal
Guest
I have a proposition. Anyone who is willing to say that all you need is the Bible, listen up.
Why don;t you buy a copy of the US Army Arctic Survival guide and take it and nothing else into the Arctic Circle and see how long you last. After all it is the definitive guide on survival in those environments. Not germain? Well, I say it is. You claim that the Bible is the only spiritual survival guide that you need. I say like any survival guide, you got to have the gear, man. It only makes sense that if God wanted to give us the Book on how to make it, he would also set up the training and gear for us as well.
As others have posted, if all you need is the Bible, why is there more than one Protestant Church? Multiple truths?
Why don;t you buy a copy of the US Army Arctic Survival guide and take it and nothing else into the Arctic Circle and see how long you last. After all it is the definitive guide on survival in those environments. Not germain? Well, I say it is. You claim that the Bible is the only spiritual survival guide that you need. I say like any survival guide, you got to have the gear, man. It only makes sense that if God wanted to give us the Book on how to make it, he would also set up the training and gear for us as well.
As others have posted, if all you need is the Bible, why is there more than one Protestant Church? Multiple truths?
J
jblake
Guest
ralphinal;:
For spiritual practices, one can practice them in the spirit. IOW, one does not require a physical object for a spiritual practice. (To survive in the wild, one does require a knife, or the raw materials from which a tool with a cutting edge can be constructed.)
From the Bible, one can learn what the appropriate spiritual practices are. The biggest issue is going to be be starting and maintaining the practices.
xan
jonathon*
Physical things require physical tools. Spiritual things require spiritual tools.
For spiritual practices, one can practice them in the spirit. IOW, one does not require a physical object for a spiritual practice. (To survive in the wild, one does require a knife, or the raw materials from which a tool with a cutting edge can be constructed.)
From the Bible, one can learn what the appropriate spiritual practices are. The biggest issue is going to be be starting and maintaining the practices.
The gear to use and the training on using it can be found in the Bible. Whether or not one will recognize them, is a different issue.
Why isn’t everybody who claims to be Roman Catholic a practicing member of Opus Dei? There is no rational reason for the existence of any other body within Roman Catholicism. *
Multiple understandings. One major issue with spirituality, is that there is no way to determine spiritual validity, until after the fact.
xan
jonathon*
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jmcrae
Guest
Since always, as far as I know. (Assuming their baptisms were recorded, of course. Otherwise, they would receive a conditional baptism.)
What makes you think that “foundlings” can’t become Catholic?
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