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Full_of_Misery
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I wonder what the current Pope would say about other “ecclesial communities” utilizing clerical collars, etc?
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Steadfast
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To me, the most disturbing thing about this story is discovering that you live in a coffee shop.
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Cathdefender
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Steadfast
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Steven_John
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For me to live in a coffee shop would be kool.
provided it served de caff, we all need some sleep LOL
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Cathdefender
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Oh, I just got it!!! that’s funny!
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cheddarsox
Guest
This thread is starting to remind me of pagans complaining that Catholics use their holy days and symbolism! That they usurped them and used them for their own purposes. Took things dedicated to their deities, etc, and altered their meanings, or Catholicized them.
I guess it goes in both directions, except this time it is mostly Protestants who wear the collar that is being claimed here to be Catholic.
I’ve read histories on the clerical collar, and the Catholics say that it developed after Priests adopted the common fashion of wearing collars protected by linen, and then adding lace, etc. After a time they were chastened not to add the lace, etc, like lay people did, and retained the plain collar.
I’ve read other histories that claim a Protestant origin and say Catholics did not adopt the collar for common use until late nineteenth century. So it is unclear to me where it started, but I think it is safe to say, even according to the Catholic encyclopedia that it is not originally of church origin, nor was it developed specifically by the church for the priests to use to identify themselves.
Like so many things, it evolved over many years through cultural use. I know in the USA, it is commonly worn by many denominations of Christian clergy when they wish to be identified as such.
I guess it goes in both directions, except this time it is mostly Protestants who wear the collar that is being claimed here to be Catholic.
I’ve read histories on the clerical collar, and the Catholics say that it developed after Priests adopted the common fashion of wearing collars protected by linen, and then adding lace, etc. After a time they were chastened not to add the lace, etc, like lay people did, and retained the plain collar.
I’ve read other histories that claim a Protestant origin and say Catholics did not adopt the collar for common use until late nineteenth century. So it is unclear to me where it started, but I think it is safe to say, even according to the Catholic encyclopedia that it is not originally of church origin, nor was it developed specifically by the church for the priests to use to identify themselves.
Like so many things, it evolved over many years through cultural use. I know in the USA, it is commonly worn by many denominations of Christian clergy when they wish to be identified as such.
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Full_of_Misery
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So, protestants wearing cassocks/collars doesn’t bother you, doesn’t seem inappropriate for you?
I kind of wish that Christians of all stripes would wear the same uniform. It aids in unity, even though we still disagree on a lot of things.
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cheddarsox
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It does not bother me, but then, I have no vested interest in it.
In my country it is considered an acceptable “uniform” for clergy, it lets people know they are clergy and in the service of the Christian God, so I do not find it inappropriate. I have never gotten the idea that they are trying to pass themselves off as something they are not, but rather calling attention to their vocation that they might be of service to people.
They are dressing so out of respect for God and their call to service, so I am not sure why people are offended by this.
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ralphinal
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For the record, it does not bother me if the intention is not to attract Catholics for the purpose of luring them away. In fact, I prefer my men of God to look like they serve God.
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Full_of_Misery
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I think they are offended because they feel that these protestant ministers are making themselves indistinguishable from Roman Catholic priests. So, a Roman Catholic might see a cassock or collar and assume that this person is a RC priest, but then they find out that the person is not a RC priest after approaching/talking with the person. Maybe they feel betrayed, somehow? I don’t know.
It seems even single-breasted cassocks are used increasingly by Anglicans nowadays. For sure, the tab-collar shirt is used by everyone, including rabbis, Wiccan priestesses, and Buddhist priests. You could argue that the tab collar simply signifies clergy of any type nowadays.
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ufamtobie
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If Lutherans, don’t follow the Catholic Church, why is it that Lutheran Pastors want to look like a Catholic Priest?
Ufamtobie
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Pong
Guest
And as far as ordinations go, sorry, no dice. Lutherans lost that a long time ago.
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Full_of_Misery
Guest
I don’t think he was trying to look like a RC priest. The collar is not something exclusive to RC priests. They have been used by all types of clergy for a long time now (centuries). The clerical shirt with collar as we know it was invented by an Anglican in the 19th century.
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cheddarsox
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Thanks for that insight, I was missing that “piece” of the puzzle.
I wonder how many people here have experienced a minister of another faith wearing a collar for the purpose of fooling a Catholic into discussion so they could lure then from the faith.
Now it sounds like a Chick tract, in the other direction!
I was raised Catholic, and I understand how myopic one can get if they live in a predominantly Catholic area, and associate all things they see in church and at church with THEIR church, and their church only.
But rather than assign bad intent to another, perhaps realize that these ministers, raised in their own churches and not having a 24/7 Catholic perspective, might just be doing what is the norm and proper according to their own faith and their experience in their faith. And chances are they are not thinking at all about Catholics or luring them anywhere when they get up in the morning and dress for their day.
I wear sneakers to work, but I am not trying to pass myself off as an athlete, or trying to lure anyone into talking to me by making them think I am Michael Jordan.
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Cathdefender
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Wrong. The first Catholic Christians wore the collar in the 15th century.
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Full_of_Misery
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Wrong.
All secular gentlemen followed the then current fashion of turning down their linen collars over their outer clothing. Priests followed suite. This was simply the fashion of the time, just as neck-ties on white dress shirts with suit jackets are now the style of the day.The collar as a separate article of clothing distinct to only clergy was done by an Anglican in the 19th century.
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dessert
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I am now trying to imagine our Holy Father in a sweat suit walking on a treadmil with headphones on listening to The Daughters of St. Paul cool!
Hi ufamtobie,
I never had thought to ask him the question, “do you where that to look like a Catholic preist?” Of course, the wedding band probably gave that away.
I seriously don’t think he, or any Lutheran for that matter, has that kind of shallow thinking in mind. It is a “clerical collar”, and he was a clergyman, the Catholic disregard for our orders notwithstanding.
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Cathdefender
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In the fashions of the FIFTEENTH CENTURY when there wasn’t an Anglican yet to see the light of day, the clergy of men and laity began to turn their linen collars up and over their outer garments.Wrong.
The collar as a separate article of clothing distinct to only clergy was done by an Anglican in the 19th century.
Gradually these collars became elaborate, often varying in style from country to country.
Eventually, it was moved to Rome and adopted a simpler style.
As the centuries progressed, this linen “choker” was stiffened with starch and began to resemble collars worn today by Catholic priests.
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