Just found out Best Friends are "swingers"?!

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BlueEyedLady said:
(Bolding Mine) This whole post is dead on, but especially the last part. Frankly, if the idea of being propositioned makes you feel so unsafe, perhaps you should seek therapy. You will be propositioned in your life, married or not. The propositions may come from a man who doesn’t realize that your married, or worse, doesn’t care. It may come a single man, from swingers, or even from a married man looking to have an affair. If you can’t confidently tell these people ‘no’, then it might be time to get some help.

I am not a swinger. The whole idea is very sad to me, and whatever jollies I got from it would be overshadowed by my crushing guilt, pain, and jealousy. That said, if I found out my friends were swingers I would be fine with it. I wouldn’t want to hear about it, but I don’t want to hear about my friends’ sex life regardless. And if they’re my friends, they know me well enough to know that I would never swing, and that even asking me to violate my marriage like that would give them a one-way ticket out of my life.

But it doesn’t seem like these good friends of yours, who you spend that much time with, are looking at the devout Catholic couple as potential partners. They know you better than that, and not only have they never asked you, they never even told you that they were doing this.
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I wouldn’t have a friend who brazenly propositioned others outside marriage, even one with a spouse who acted in kind by mutual agreement. Are you sure that you would be “fine” if you found your friends did that? Mind you, I will concede that is different from someone who had cheated on his wife, repented, and was forgiven, or someone who was in an affair and struggling with the temptation to stay instead of leave. I do not mean to shun anyone going through moral struggles. I mean shunning friendships with those who are openly proponents of serious immorality of the kind that even the secular population knows is seriously wrong.
 
BlueEyedLady said:
As I addressed in my next post, it seems that the friends knew how the OP and her husband would feel about it, so they chose not to tell them. Seems like a respectful decision to me.

The OP accidentally stumbled on to the information, and I think she should show her friends the same courtesy they have shown her and not bring it up or try to discuss their sex life with them.
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Yes, exactly. Since the friend has not disclosed this information, they are not even known to be proponents of the practice. If they do not do so in the future, they ought to be given the benefit of the doubt. They may not be guilty of anything, and if they are guilty they may be aware that what they are doing is wrong and perhaps trying to repent. Yes, that is different.

I wouldn’t be so hard on someone who feels very uncomfortable at the idea of being propositioned. It does happen, but it is not at all pleasant. It is icky, and greatly to be avoided. (The exception being when it is flattering, and in that case it would be downright dangerous!)
 
EasterJoy said:
I wouldn’t have a friend who brazenly propositioned others outside marriage, even one with a spouse who acted in kind by mutual agreement. Are you sure that you would be “fine” if you found your friends did that? Mind you, I will concede that is different from someone who had cheated on his wife, repented, and was forgiven, or someone who was in an affair and struggling with the temptation to stay instead of leave. I do not mean to shun anyone going through moral struggles. I mean shunning friendships with those who are openly proponents of serious immorality of the kind that even the secular population knows is seriously wrong.
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Interesting. See, I would have a much harder time being friends with someone who cheated on their spouse, regardless of how sorry they were and how resolved they were to not let it happen again. That’s someone I could never trust. If they are willing to break the heart of the person who loves them most and that they promised their lives to, what would they be willing to do to me if it was convenient and would net them something that they wanted? I have zero tolerance for that kind of selfishness. (I apologize for the tone here, I’m not angry with you, I just have a hard time talking about infidelity without getting visibly upset.)

As for swinging, I’m better with it because as long as its mutual, no one is getting their heart broken. I see that as stupid choices that adults are making in their personal lives. I don’t want to be included in these choices, and I don’t want to hear about them, but as long as no one is getting hurt I don’t feel as though I have a right to be upset about what they do among themselves and away from me.
 
tjones80 said:
In the NT Paul writes that we should not be yoked with unbelievers and to avoid sexual immortality. I would find new friends.
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She was not invited to use that computer and does not really know she is interpreting what she saw correctly. On top of that, her friends, in the event they even suspect she saw the information on their computer, would have charitable reasons not to confront her about what she thinks she saw. They might even easily assume that no good friend of theirs would not leap to such unflattering conclusions about them, no matter what they “think” they saw!

It would be wrong to condemn someone rashly when the possibility does exist that there is an innocent explanation or that the person has repented since of what they have done. Charity requires us to believe that the most positive explanation may be the true one, even if it is very unlikely.
 
EasterJoy said:
Yes, exactly. Since the friend has not disclosed this information, they are not even known to be proponents of the practice. If they do not do so in the future, they ought to be given the benefit of the doubt. They may not be guilty of anything, and if they are guilty they may be aware that what they are doing is wrong and perhaps trying to repent. Yes, that is different.

I wouldn’t be so hard on someone who feels very uncomfortable at the idea of being propositioned. It does happen, but it is not at all pleasant. It is icky, and greatly to be avoided. (The exception being when it is flattering, and in that case it would be downright dangerous!)
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Also interesting. I don’t see being “hit on” as a dichotomy between icky and dangerously flattering. I am approached for dates frequently, and I’m always flattered and polite about it, but never tempted.
 
BlueEyedLady said:
As I addressed in my next post, it seems that the friends knew how the OP and her husband would feel about it, so they chose not to tell them. Seems like a respectful decision to me.

The OP accidentally stumbled on to the information, and I think she should show her friends the same courtesy they have shown her and not bring it up or try to discuss their sex life with them.
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I agree completely with this opinion.
Mary.
 
BlueEyedLady said:
Also interesting. I don’t see being “hit on” as a dichotomy between icky and dangerously flattering. I am approached for dates frequently, and I’m always flattered and polite about it, but never tempted.
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I do not mean that there is anything wrong with being flattered when someone who does not know you are married asks you for a date. There is nothing inherently wrong with finding comfort in the idea that you could still find someone if you weren’t already taken!

No, I mean when the proposition comes from someone who obviously knows that you are already married, not from someone who believes you might be available. If someone who knows you are married starts up with the “hey, BAY-bee” stuff, that’s icky. If we find *that *flattering, we ought to be careful with ourselves.
 
EasterJoy said:
I do not mean that there is anything wrong with being flattered when someone who does not know you are married asks you for a date. There is nothing inherently wrong with finding comfort in the idea that you could still find someone if you weren’t already taken!

No, I mean when the proposition comes from someone who obviously knows that you are already married, not from someone who believes you might be available. If someone who knows you are married starts up with the “hey, BAY-bee” stuff, that’s icky. If we find *that *flattering, we ought to be careful with ourselves.
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Oh yeah, intentionally hitting on married people is a disgusting no-no. We’re definitely on the same page there!

Sadly, too many people do find that flattering. I think it has a lot to do with low self-esteem and insecurity with oneself and relationship.
 
Most stories you read on the internet are just that, stories. It is much more likely that your friend is having fun writing a few “Dear Penthouse” type stories than that he and his wife are into swinging.
 
BlueEyedLady said:
The OP accidentally stumbled on to the information, and I think she should show her friends the same courtesy they have shown her and not bring it up or try to discuss their sex life with them.
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I think this is the crux of it for me. The couple did not bring it up, didn’t even hint at anything unsavory. The OP ASKED to use the computer in their home then found something that made her uncomfortable. I would hope that if a friend of mine asked to use an electronic device of mine, they would not be so unsettled by something of mine that they end what they previously thought was a close friendship. What about a friend asking to borrow my ipod for a flight out of town and discovers that I have a few songs that are labeled explicit by itunes? If that is not something the friend feels is acceptable will she then cast aside years of friendship. The only thing we know for certain is a couple thought they had good enough friends to welcome them into their home and trust them on their computer. I don’t think that is worth disassociation.
 
Miss_Felicity said:
I think this is the crux of it for me. The couple did not bring it up, didn’t even hint at anything unsavory. The OP ASKED to use the computer in their home then found something that made her uncomfortable. I would hope that if a friend of mine asked to use an electronic device of mine, they would not be so unsettled by something of mine that they end what they previously thought was a close friendship. What about a friend asking to borrow my ipod for a flight out of town and discovers that I have a few songs that are labeled explicit by itunes? If that is not something the friend feels is acceptable will she then cast aside years of friendship. The only thing we know for certain is a couple thought they had good enough friends to welcome them into their home and trust them on their computer. I don’t think that is worth disassociation.
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Imagine the explaining I have to do when people use my computer or phone and see that I have a window open on CAF!
 
tjones80 said:
In the NT Paul writes that we should not be yoked with unbelievers and to avoid sexual immortality. I would find new friends.
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If it were true I would find new friends as well. I don’t like hanging out with people to begin with. I like it a lot less when knowing about their lives makes me feel like I need a shower. I have a friend I have spoken to in years because I found out he was really into scatological and bestiality porn. Being around him after that was just too awkward.
 
Burt_Macklin said:
If it were true I would find new friends as well. I don’t like hanging out with people to begin with. I like it a lot less when knowing about their lives makes me feel like I need a shower. I have a friend I have spoken to in years because I found out he was really into scatological and bestiality porn. Being around him after that was just too awkward.
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Gosh! Yeah, I agree. New friends.

They have a saying in Spanish, “Dime con quien andas, y yo te diré quien eres”. In English, it literally translates as, “Tell me who you walk/go with, and I’ll tell you who you are”. In English, we’d say, “You are known by the company you keep”.
 
ClearWater said:
Gosh! Yeah, I agree. New friends.

They have a saying in Spanish, “Dime con quien andas, y yo te diré quien eres”. In English, it literally translates as, “Tell me who you walk/go with, and I’ll tell you who you are”. In English, we’d say, “You are known by the company you keep”.
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I have to know, what is your threshold for ‘holy’ enough or ‘righteous’ enough to be your friend?
 
BlueEyedLady said:
I have to know, what is your threshold for ‘holy’ enough or ‘righteous’ enough to be your friend?
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Not that they never fail, but that on the big issues they know their right hand from their left. That they do not reject basic moral standards.

It goes back to charity. If one of us were shunning morality in such a serious way, in a way that risked our eternal doom, would we think it a disservice for our friends to utterly reject what we were doing, and reject us for advocating in favor of it? I hope not. Some kinds of tolerance are compassionate and may even be demanded by basic humility, yes, but some other kinds of tolerance put pavement and lights on the road to perdition.

No, to tolerate this would be like tolerating it while friends advocated for going out and getting drunk or shooting up drugs. No way, no can do. The least one would have to do is to get up and leave.
 
EasterJoy said:
She was not invited to use that computer and does not really know she is interpreting what she saw correctly. On top of that, her friends, in the event they even suspect she saw the information on their computer, would have charitable reasons not to confront her about what she thinks she saw. They might even easily assume that no good friend of theirs would not leap to such unflattering conclusions about them, no matter what they “think” they saw!

It would be wrong to condemn someone rashly when the possibility does exist that there is an innocent explanation or that the person has repented since of what they have done. Charity requires us to believe that the most positive explanation may be the true one, even if it is very unlikely.
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I have dealt with married swingers during my life. My advice is to listen to the Apostle Paul’s advice and not be yoked with them. I can’t say anymore without being dinged by a moderator.
 
BlueEyedLady said:
Oh yeah, intentionally hitting on married people is a disgusting no-no. We’re definitely on the same page there!

Sadly, too many people do find that flattering. I think it has a lot to do with low self-esteem and insecurity with oneself and relationship.
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I think you are very right. People who are insecure about themselves are very vulnerable to flattery and even to infidelity.
 
You know, these people have been friends for years and they deserve to know why things are suddenly awkward.

Since it was the husband, perhaps your husband can have a private talk with him to say what was seen on the computer and listen to what he has to say. Perhaps he is the only culprit. Perhaps it’s a secret from his wife. Perhaps they are both swingers. Maybe they are considering giving it up anyway. You never know. Maybe there is a reason you found out and they may respond by backing away from that lifestyle. There’s a good chance they’ll back off from your friendship and continue there activities, but what if you could influence them in a good way? I’d say don’t give up on them yet. Give them a chance. Otherwise, at least they know why things went sour.
 
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