Just have faith and you are done

[TimothyH]

Even among those who do embrace OSAS…those who do NOT LIVE a Christian life…aren’t really “saved” in the first place…no matter whether one is Arminian or Calvinist a holy life is a necessary part of their belief system…one cannot “do what ever they wish” that is an unfair AND untrue explanation of “eternal security”.

Granted, there are some extremists out there who are true antinominanists…but they are rare…the security of the believer is not license to "do what you want’…it is the belief that it is GOD who keeps us…not ourselves…unfortuneatly many Calvinists are as ignorant of their belief systems as Catholics are of Calvinism…I did not use the word “ignorant” as an insult by the way…ignorance of a subject is a trait all of us exhibit at times…willffull ignorance is another matter entirely.

Here in the deep south, the idea that eternal salvation is irrevolkable is quite common.

All will claim that they cannot do whatever they wish but in the very next breath they will say that no matter what they do, they are saved, and that God will never take that away from them. I studied scripture with a group of about a dozen non-denominational Evangelicals and Baptist for about a year who said as much when I asked them point blank. I paid $125/hour to see a Christian Counselor for six months who tried to tell me exactly that. I am aquainted with a Baptist Pastor whom I asked, “If a man who is saved cheats on his wife ten years after accepting Christ, can he loose his salvation?” and was told, “No, of course not.”

They all say that a holy life is evidence of their salvation. But I don’t think it is unfair to say that they believe that their salvation will never be taken away no mattter what they do. The belief is quite common here in the south.

-Tim-

 

[Nicea325]

The statement…“Just have faith and you are done” is not representative of Calvinist belief. It is a gross oversimplification of what Baptists and others that embrace “eternal security of the believer” believe and practice. To suggest so is less than truthful…IMO.

Perhaps friend Jim would be able to shed light on what his understanding truly is…I would be interested if he truly believes the statment of this thread is an accurate representation of Baptist/Reformed belief.

Well yes,it might not be on the exact dot,but I am assuming we know what he meant-eh? And yes, I agree Jim perhaps should elaborate. But I understand what you meant now,my apologies for misunderstanding you.

 

[Matorin]

A good article on this: fundamentallyreformed.com/2006/02/11/once-saved-always-saved/

 

[ltwin]

Here in the deep south, the idea that eternal salvation is irrevolkable is quite common.

All will claim that they cannot do whatever they wish but in the very next breath they will say that no matter what they do, they are saved, and that God will never take that away from them. I studied scripture with a group of about a dozen non-denominational Evangelicals and Baptist for about a year who said as much when I asked them point blank. I paid $125/hour to see a Christian Counselor for six months who tried to tell me exactly that. I am aquainted with a Baptist Pastor whom I asked, “If a man who is saved cheats on his wife ten years after accepting Christ, can he loose his salvation?” and was told, “No, of course not.”

They all say that a holy life is evidence of their salvation. But I don’t think it is unfair to say that they believe that their salvation will never be taken away no mattter what they do. The belief is quite common here in the south.

-Tim-

Interesting, Protestants here in the South have the same perception of baptized Catholics. Personally, I have never met an evangelical who adheres to OSAS. I have met a lot of lazy and nominal Christians.

My church wont hesitate to tell you that you have back slidden, if indeed you have.

 

[Publisher]

Here in the deep south, the idea that eternal salvation is irrevolkable is quite common.

All will claim that they cannot do whatever they wish but in the very next breath they will say that no matter what they do, they are saved, and that God will never take that away from them. I studied scripture with a group of about a dozen non-denominational Evangelicals and Baptist for about a year who said as much when I asked them point blank. I paid $125/hour to see a Christian Counselor for six months who tried to tell me exactly that. I am aquainted with a Baptist Pastor whom I asked, “If a man who is saved cheats on his wife ten years after accepting Christ, can he loose his salvation?” and was told, “No, of course not.”

They all say that a holy life is evidence of their salvation. But I don’t think it is unfair to say that they believe that their salvation will never be taken away no mattter what they do. The belief is quite common here in the south.

-Tim-

When I lived in Nashville most of the Evangelicals has similar understandings of Catholics as well…“Catholics believe they can do what ever they want as long as they go to confession”.

I had a close friend who wore a brown scapular…he was adamant that as long as he wore the scapular, he could live as he wanted because he had the promise that if he did so he was promised he’d have a priest to confess to before he died to make sure he was forgiven.

I am always amazed at the conclusions we draw of other faith communities.

 

[Jim_Dandy]

I would dare say…he is not stating it from a Calvinist position either…but that’s just me…I don’t accept OSAS either but I try to understand the opposing belief system and understand it from their perspective…but the conclusions drawn by Catholics are not correct either.

I believe truth does matter…and misrepresenting others beliefs to further my own does not speak from that Center of Truth and Love…so to insure we understand and not misrepresent or speak for another perhaps friend Jim could clarify…Jim…are you stating the OSAS position from an accepted Calvinist position…or is it being “filtered” thru your Catholic faith?

No way could I filter OSAS through my Catholic faith, since there is nothing comparable to it (thanks be to God) in Catholicism.

I summarized it as I was taught it and lived it as a member of the Calvary Baptist Church (Southern) from birth to my early 20s.

Here’s the long version of what I was taught and believed: I was “saved” – that is, I was guaranteed that I would go to heaven – because I once “accepted Jesus Christ as my personal Lord and Savior” and “invited Jesus into my heart” – i.e., I was “born again.” Once I had done that, all my sins were covered by the blood of Jesus, past, present, and future. I couldn’t lose my salvation, no matter what I did. My past and present sins were forgiven. My future sins didn’t count. Kings X. God was either somehow inhibited from enforcing His requirement about obeying the commandments against me, or He immediately wiped my sins away. I was home free. Then, ten years later, say I become an axe-murderer. That wouldn’t mean that OSAS was an incorrect doctrine. No siree, it meant that I wasn’t really “saved” in the first place. For the last ten years, I only thought I was saved.

So I can go through life for years and years, thinking I’m saved when I’m really not saved at all. I only think I am. This is Eternal Security? So when I jumped off the Baptist ship and became an agnostic, my former Baptist friends said “Well, y’all know, he only thought he was saved.”:whacky:

John 10:27-30 is often used as a scriptural basis for OSAS - “My sheep hear my voice; I hear them, and they follow me. I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish. No one can take them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, and no one can take them out of the Father’s hand. The Father and I are one.”

Well, sure. ‘No one can take them out of the Father’s hand.’ But I can take myself out of His hand anytime I choose to deliberately commit mortal sin!

Jim Dandy

 

[Modestly_Anne]

That is also my experience…the “just have faith and you are done” is a Catholic caricature of Protestant belief.

There are many that teach OSAS. I was at a Baptist Church last week where the pastor was only about 2 minutes into the sermon when he said something to the effect of “Aren’t you glad that we are assured of our Salvation?” followed by a chorus of “Amens!!”

It certainly felt like he was teaching that “faith” alone can assure the professors of such faith of their salvation.

Of course it is assumed that such faith will produce a repentive heart, and good fruit etc., but that would be more a by-product of the faith, not a necessity for actual salvation.

 

[Zenas]

*The Baptist Faith and Message *is the statement of faith of the Southern Baptist Convention, and it holds to “once saved always saved” absolutely and unconditionally. Here is what it says:

All true believers endure to the end. Those whom God has accepted in Christ, and sanctified by His Spirit, will never fall away from the state of grace, but shall persevere to the end. Believers may fall into sin through neglect and temptation, whereby they grieve the Spirit, impair their graces and comforts, and bring reproach on the cause of Christ and temporal judgments on themselves; yet they shall be kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation.

 

[ltwin]

There are many that teach OSAS. I was at a Baptist Church last week where the pastor was only about 2 minutes into the sermon when he said something to the effect of “Aren’t you glad that we are assured of our Salvation?” followed by a chorus of “Amens!!”

It certainly felt like he was teaching that “faith” alone can assure the professors of such faith of their salvation.

Of course it is assumed that such faith will produce a repentive heart, and good fruit etc., but that would be more a by-product of the faith, not a necessity for actual salvation.

Assurance of salvation is a term used even in non OSAS churches. It can mean once save always saved. Or in the way that I use it is that I am assured that nothing can separate me from the love of God. There is nothing that I can “do” or “not do” that is so bad or so horrible that Christ will refuse to forgive me if I come to Him afterward truly seeking forgiveness and truly repenting. His blood covers all of my sins.

I don’t have to worry about the security of my faith as long as I abide in Christ. Of course, I have to abide in Him. I can choose not to abide in Christ, and then I would not have any basis on which to have assurance of my salvation.

But then again, I’m not Baptist and it seems like a lot of the comments have been citing Baptists examples. It must be a Baptist thing.

 

[Publisher]

There are many that teach OSAS. I was at a Baptist Church last week where the pastor was only about 2 minutes into the sermon when he said something to the effect of “Aren’t you glad that we are assured of our Salvation?” followed by a chorus of “Amens!!”

It certainly felt like he was teaching that “faith” alone can assure the professors of such faith of their salvation.

Of course it is assumed that such faith will produce a repentive heart, and good fruit etc., but that would be more a by-product of the faith, not a necessity for actual salvation.

I probably would have said “Amen” as well…I am thankful we are not left to wander in darkness…I am thankful “his Spirit bears witness with our spirit that we are the children of God.” It is God…not oursleves that “keeps us”…we would be in sad shape if our own efforts were the means of our salvation…“For I am persuaded that HE IS ABLE to KEEP what I have committed to Him against that day.”…He is the “keeper of my soul”…the “light in my darkness”…“the hope of my salvation”…thank God I don’t have to trust in my own righteousness or my works to be His child. There is One who did it all for me…“come to me…and I will give you rest from your labors”…

 

[Jim_Dandy]

I probably would have said “Amen” as well…I am thankful we are not left to wander in darkness…I am thankful “his Spirit bears witness with our spirit that we are the children of God.” It is God…not oursleves that “keeps us”…we would be in sad shape if our own efforts were the means of our salvation…“For I am persuaded that HE IS ABLE to KEEP what I have committed to Him against that day.”…He is the “keeper of my soul”…the “light in my darkness”…“the hope of my salvation”…thank God I don’t have to trust in my own righteousness or my works to be His child. There is One who did it all for me…“come to me…and I will give you rest from your labors”…

Are you sure you don’t just *think *you are saved? You won’t know for certain until you stand before the judgment seat of Christ.

Catholics, too, have the assurance that we will go to heaven as long as we remain in the State of Grace. But as long as we are alive, we have no infallible, absolutely certain assurance that we will not fall into temptation and commit mortal (deadly) sin. So until we die, we can’t be absolutely certain of our salvation; we may fall from grace. That’s why God gave us the sacrament of Penance (Confession) - John 20:19-23.

**Assurance of Instant Salvation / Salvation as a Process **

1 Corinthians 9:27 but I pommel my body and subdue it, lest after preaching to others I myself should be disqualified.

**1 Corinthians 10:12 **Therefore let any one who thinks that he stands take heed lest he fall.

Galatians 5:1,4 . . . stand fast therefore, and do not submit again to a yoke of slavery . . . You are severed from Christ, you who would be justified by the law; you have fallen away from grace.

Philippians 3:11-14 that if possible I may attain the resurrection from the dead. Not that I have already obtained this or am already perfect; but I press on to make it my own, because Christ Jesus has made me his own. Brethren, I do not consider that I have made it my own . . . I press on toward the goal for the prize of the upward call of God in Christ Jesus.

1 Timothy 4:1 Now the Spirit expressly says that in later times some will depart from the faith by giving heed to deceitful spirits and doctrines of demons.

1 Timothy 5:15 For some have already strayed after Satan.

Hebrews 3:12-14 Take care, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil, unbelieving heart, leading you to fall away from the living God. But exhort one another every day . . . that none of you may be hardened by the deceitfulness of sin. For we share in Christ, if only we hold our first confidence firm to the end.

Hebrews 6:4-6 For it is impossible to restore again to repentance those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the goodness of the word of God, and the powers of the age to come, if they then commit apostasy . . .

2 Peter 2:15,20-21 Forsaking the right way they have gone astray; they have followed the way of Balaam, . . . For if, after they have escaped the defilements of the world through the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overpowered, the last state has become worse for them than the first. For it would have been better for them never to have known the way of righteousness than after knowing it to turn back from the holy commandment delivered to them.

{See also 1 Samuel 11:6, 18:11-12, Ezekiel 18:24, 33:12-13,18, Galatians 4:9, Colossians 1:23, Hebrews 6:11-12, 10:23,26,29,36,39, 12:15, Revelation 2:4-5}

Compiled by Dave Armstrong. Bible Verses: RSV.

Jim Dandy

 

[Publisher]

Are you sure you don’t just *think *you are saved? You won’t know for certain until you stand before the judgment seat of Christ.

Catholics, too, have the assurance that we will go to heaven as long as we remain in the State of Grace. But as long as we are alive, we have no infallible, absolutely certain assurance that we will not fall into temptation and commit mortal (deadly) sin. So until we die, we can’t be absolutely certain of our salvation; we may fall from grace. That’s why God gave us the sacrament of Penance (Confession) - John 20:19-23.

**Assurance of Instant Salvation / Salvation as a Process **

1 Corinthians 9:27 but I pommel my body and subdue it, lest after preaching to others I myself should be disqualified.

**1 Corinthians 10:12 **Therefore let any one who thinks that he stands take heed lest he fall.

Galatians 5:1,4 . . . stand fast therefore, and do not submit again to a yoke of slavery . . . You are severed from Christ, you who would be justified by the law; you have fallen away from grace.

Philippians 3:11-14 that if possible I may attain the resurrection from the dead. Not that I have already obtained this or am already perfect; but I press on to make it my own, because Christ Jesus has made me his own. Brethren, I do not consider that I have made it my own . . . I press on toward the goal for the prize of the upward call of God in Christ Jesus.

1 Timothy 4:1 Now the Spirit expressly says that in later times some will depart from the faith by giving heed to deceitful spirits and doctrines of demons.

1 Timothy 5:15 For some have already strayed after Satan.

Hebrews 3:12-14 Take care, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil, unbelieving heart, leading you to fall away from the living God. But exhort one another every day . . . that none of you may be hardened by the deceitfulness of sin. For we share in Christ, if only we hold our first confidence firm to the end.

Hebrews 6:4-6 For it is impossible to restore again to repentance those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the goodness of the word of God, and the powers of the age to come, if they then commit apostasy . . .

2 Peter 2:15,20-21 Forsaking the right way they have gone astray; they have followed the way of Balaam, . . . For if, after they have escaped the defilements of the world through the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overpowered, the last state has become worse for them than the first. For it would have been better for them never to have known the way of righteousness than after knowing it to turn back from the holy commandment delivered to them.

{See also 1 Samuel 11:6, 18:11-12, Ezekiel 18:24, 33:12-13,18, Galatians 4:9, Colossians 1:23, Hebrews 6:11-12, 10:23,26,29,36,39, 12:15, Revelation 2:4-5}

Compiled by Dave Armstrong. Bible Verses: RSV.

Jim Dandy

"I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you may know that you have eternal life."

I “think” I am…and by the witness of the Spirit. I’d rather believe the Spirit’s witness.** “I am confident that he is able to keep what I have committed to Him against that day.”**

I’m not too much into “proof texting”…I have confidence in the One who makes the promise that He will do as He says…if you’re more comfortable with believing we don’t know for sure…I’m ok with it…Salvation is the work of God…I’m “confident” in the One who made the promise…I am confident in the One who WANTS to save us…I am confident in He that loves me most…and knows me best.

I agree…salvation is a process…we live NOW in His Kingdom…“For he has rescued us from the dominion of darkness and brought us into the kingdom of the Son he loves,” So…being a member of His Kingdom now…sure seems like assurance to me…“I am confident…”…not in myself…but in Him who has begun this work in me to do as He says.

 

[ltwin]

"I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you may know that you have eternal life."

I “think” I am…and by the witness of the Spirit. I’d rather believe the Spirit’s witness.** “I am confident that he is able to keep what I have committed to Him against that day.”**

I’m not too much into “proof texting”…I have confidence in the One who makes the promise that He will do as He says…if you’re more comfortable with believing we don’t know for sure…I’m ok with it…Salvation is the work of God…I’m “confident” in the One who made the promise…I am confident in the One who WANTS to save us…I am confident in He that loves me most…and knows me best.

I agree…salvation is a process…we live NOW in His Kingdom…“For he has rescued us from the dominion of darkness and brought us into the kingdom of the Son he loves,” So…being a member of His Kingdom now…sure seems like assurance to me…“I am confident…”…not in myself…but in Him who has begun this work in me to do as He says.

Amen.

 

[Nicea325]

"I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you may know that you have eternal life."

I “think” I am…and by the witness of the Spirit. I’d rather believe the Spirit’s witness.** “I am confident that he is able to keep what I have committed to Him against that day.”**

I’m not too much into “proof texting”…I have confidence in the One who makes the promise that He will do as He says…if you’re more comfortable with believing we don’t know for sure…I’m ok with it…Salvation is the work of God…I’m “confident” in the One who made the promise…I am confident in the One who WANTS to save us…I am confident in He that loves me most…and knows me best.

I agree…salvation is a process…we live NOW in His Kingdom…“For he has rescued us from the dominion of darkness and brought us into the kingdom of the Son he loves,” So…being a member of His Kingdom now…sure seems like assurance to me…“I am confident…”…not in myself…but in Him who has begun this work in me to do as He says.

Proof-texting? Is that you believe Jim Dandy did in a separate reply? More than one verse all showing the same is not proof-texting. I’ll give you an example of proof-texting:

2 Tim 3:16 which many believe proves Sola Scriptura. Now that is proof-texting.

 

[Jim_Dandy]

Proof-texting? Is that you believe Jim Dandy did in a separate reply? More than one verse all showing the same is not proof-texting. I’ll give you an example of proof-texting:

2 Tim 3:16 which many believe proves Sola Scriptura. Now that is proof-texting.

 

[FabiusMaximus]

Hello Catholics and others,

I need help understanding why some Christians believe that all you have to do is profess that Jesus Christ is your Lord and Savior (really mean that) and no matter what you do after you are still saved. I don’t get that logic. Granted I grew up Catholic where you were never sure until your butt was in Heaven and through venial and mortal sin could either hurt or severe your relationship with God. I have read the New Testament several times and no where do I find such a verse that states we have to do such a thing. I’ve read St. Paul says we have to work out our salvation “with fear and trembling.” I’ve read St. Paul tell St. Timothy that we could make “a shipwreck” of our faith. Don’t these verses make null the logic that we can’t mess up our relationship with God or that we are “done” once we have a profession. What is this teaching founded on? It doesn’t appear biblical at all.

No Christian says you can ‘have faith’ and sit on your hands and do nothing. However, Protestant Christians generally have the understanding that works is a manifestation of your faith, not something you do to cooperate with your faith.

 

[Jim_Dandy]

"I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you may know that you have eternal life."

I “think” I am…and by the witness of the Spirit. I’d rather believe the Spirit’s witness.** “I am confident that he is able to keep what I have committed to Him against that day.”**

I’m not too much into “proof texting”…I have confidence in the One who makes the promise that He will do as He says…if you’re more comfortable with believing we don’t know for sure…I’m ok with it…Salvation is the work of God…I’m “confident” in the One who made the promise…I am confident in the One who WANTS to save us…I am confident in He that loves me most…and knows me best.

I agree…salvation is a process…we live NOW in His Kingdom…“For he has rescued us from the dominion of darkness and brought us into the kingdom of the Son he loves,” So…being a member of His Kingdom now…sure seems like assurance to me…“I am confident…”…not in myself…but in Him who has begun this work in me to do as He says.

I gave up proof-texting when I left Protestantism.

“I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you may know that you have eternal life.”

This is 1 John 5:13 in isolation from the rest of the text. Earlier in that teaching, the sacred author tells us: “By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and obey his commandments. For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments . . .”

So we know that we have eternal life when we keep his commandments. Problem is, as I explained previously, as long as we breathe, we can’t be sure we’ll always keep his commandments! So there goes a “proof-text” for Believer’s Security.

I have a book entitled “Believer’s Conditional Security” by Dan Conner, a Protestant preacher, who for some 800 pages goes on and on proving from the Bible that Believer’s Security is not true. :nope: That’s his argument. It’s published by Evangelical Outreach and can be found online. So it’s a big area of contention for Protestants. Why can’t y’all agree? You all read the same 66-book incomplete Bible. But the same Holy Spirit guides thousands of you to different truths? Poor maligned Holy Spirit!

Peace, friend Publisher.

Jim Dandy

 

[Publisher]

I gave up proof-texting when I left Protestantism.

“I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you may know that you have eternal life.”

This is 1 John 5:13 in isolation from the rest of the text. Earlier in that teaching, the sacred author tells us: “By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and obey his commandments. For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments . . .”

So we know that we have eternal life when we keep his commandments. Problem is, as I explained previously, as long as we breathe, we can’t be sure we’ll always keep his commandments! So there goes a “proof-text” for Believer’s Security.

I have a book entitled “Believer’s Conditional Security” by Dan Conner, a Protestant preacher, who for some 800 pages goes on and on proving from the Bible that Believer’s Security is not true. :nope: That’s his argument. It’s published by Evangelical Outreach and can be found online. So it’s a big area of contention for Protestants. Why can’t y’all agree? You all read the same 66-book incomplete Bible. But the same Holy Spirit guides thousands of you to different truths? Poor maligned Holy Spirit!

Peace, friend Publisher.

Jim Dandy

My confidence is in the One who holds us in the Palm of His Hand…the One who loves us with an everlasting love…not in my own works…but in HIs…“I am CONVINCED that He Is Able to KEEP what I have committed to Him against that day.”

We are in Good Hands friend.

Peace to you too.

 

[pritchard85]

Hello Catholics and others,

I need help understanding why some Christians believe that all you have to do is profess that Jesus Christ is your Lord and Savior (really mean that) and no matter what you do after you are still saved. I don’t get that logic. Granted I grew up Catholic where you were never sure until your butt was in Heaven and through venial and mortal sin could either hurt or severe your relationship with God. I have read the New Testament several times and no where do I find such a verse that states we have to do such a thing. I’ve read St. Paul says we have to work out our salvation “with fear and trembling.” I’ve read St. Paul tell St. Timothy that we could make “a shipwreck” of our faith. Don’t these verses make null the logic that we can’t mess up our relationship with God or that we are “done” once we have a profession. What is this teaching founded on? It doesn’t appear biblical at all.

You ARE done, but the Holy Spirit has only gotten started!!

 

[Zooey]

I don’t even begin to understand any OSAS doctrine. At the very least, I am asking for forgiveness every time I say the Lord’s Prayer.

Even among those who do embrace OSAS…those who do NOT LIVE a Christian life…aren’t really “saved” in the first place…no matter whether one is Arminian or Calvinist a holy life is a necessary part of their belief system…one cannot “do what ever they wish” that is an unfair AND untrue explanation of “eternal security”.

Granted**, there are some extremists out there who are true antinominanists…but they are rare…the security of the believer is not license to "do what you want’**…it is the belief that it is GOD who keeps us…not ourselves…unfortuneatly many Calvinists are as ignorant of their belief systems as Catholics are of Calvinism…I did not use the word “ignorant” as an insult by the way…ignorance of a subject is a trait all of us exhibit at times…willffull ignorance is another matter entirely.

Oh, I only wish they were as rare as you say! I know a whole passel of them.

One of my AG pastors likes to say “We are process people.”

AG theology amounts to conservative Methodism + continuationism. We are not Baptists.

"I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you may know that you have eternal life."

I “think” I am…and by the witness of the Spirit. I’d rather believe the Spirit’s witness.** “I am confident that he is able to keep what I have committed to Him against that day.”**

I’m not too much into “proof texting”…I have confidence in the One who makes the promise that He will do as He says…if you’re more comfortable with believing we don’t know for sure…I’m ok with it…Salvation is the work of God…I’m “confident” in the One who made the promise…I am confident in the One who WANTS to save us…I am confident in He that loves me most…and knows me best.

I agree…salvation is a process…we live NOW in His Kingdom…“For he has rescued us from the dominion of darkness and brought us into the kingdom of the Son he loves,” So…being a member of His Kingdom now…sure seems like assurance to me…“I am confident…”…not in myself…but in Him who has begun this work in me to do as He says.

Publisher, you sound like an :yupld-fashioned Methodist! You wanna come sit in the Amen Corner with me??