Just how "Catholic" is Europe these days?

[HabemusFrancis]

Everyone knows there a great many countries in Europe that have traditionally strong ties to the Church. When one tours, one is greeted by magnificent cathedrals.

But appearances are deceiving. In pretty much all European countries (Portugal and Poland perhaps excepted) many hold positions or opinions, that from what I have heard, render such holders “not Catholic at all.” Many in Europe do not go to mass weekly…

Let me see if I can diagnose the “Catholic European countries” to see how they are doing…

1.France: Likely a minority Catholic country… too much caught up in sensual ennui/existentialism to give much thought to Catholic teaching?

1. Italy: Has more sympathetic and familial ties to the Church than France, likes it more… but many arent serious Catholics?
2. Spain: Still kind of recovering from Catholic influenced Franco regime… many people today there are atheist… if you are a serious Catholic in Spain… perhaps an Opus Dei type?
3. Ireland: Kind of mad at instiutial Church, significant abuse problem… probably still in the Irish nature to be spiritual and mystical… Probably hope of church comeback…

what do you all think? Is Europe really a Catholic place anymore?

 

[po18guy]

No. Europe (and, by extension, America) is essentially lost. Their governments are sharply anti-Catholic and militantly pagan. Both Europe and America share a decidedly Christian heritage, but increasingly distance themselves from it. The EU is attempting to erase all traces of it. The US is not far behind.

Africa and Asia are increasingly Catholic. Certain areas of Latin America are also still predominantly Catholic.

 

[Luigi_Daniele]

It’s the same everywhere (CAUTION: BROAD GENERALIZATION APPROACHING):

the big cities are gone, but the country folk are still pretty Catholic (at least in Italia).

 

[Tarpeian_Rock]

I believe the percent of church attendance is much higher in the U.S. than in Europe, but much of that difference is driven by evangelicals, not Catholics.

 

[liturgyluver]

Everyone knows there a great many countries in Europe that have traditionally strong ties to the Church. When one tours, one is greeted by magnificent cathedrals.

But appearances are deceiving. In pretty much all European countries (Portugal and Poland perhaps excepted) many hold positions or opinions, that from what I have heard, render such holders “not Catholic at all.” Many in Europe do not go to mass weekly…

Let me see if I can diagnose the “Catholic European countries” to see how they are doing…

1.France: Likely a minority Catholic country… too much caught up in sensual ennui/existentialism to give much thought to Catholic teaching?

1. Italy: Has more sympathetic and familial ties to the Church than France, likes it more… but many arent serious Catholics?

This article gives a useful comparative survey of some of the indicators:

pewforum.org/2013/03/05/during-benedicts-papacy-religious-observance-among-catholics-in-europe-remained-low-but-stable/

1. Spain: Still kind of recovering from Catholic influenced Franco regime… many people today there are atheist… if you are a serious Catholic in Spain… perhaps an Opus Dei type?
2. Ireland: Kind of mad at instiutial Church, significant abuse problem… probably still in the Irish nature to be spiritual and mystical… Probably hope of church comeback…

what do you all think? Is Europe really a Catholic place anymore?

You need to unpick this question to have a common understanding of what the definition is to be “Catholic”. Is it about those who self -identify as Catholic, those baptised into the faith, or is it about how many attend mass weekly.

Well, let’s use the USA as a comparator - a whopping 24% of US Catholics go to mass weekly (the figure for the non-Catholic UK incidently is 23%). How does that compare with the countries in your list?

France -9%
Italy - 23%
Spain - 24%
Ireland - 18% (tragically down from 90% only 25 years ago)

This article gives a helpful overview of some of the indicators:

pewforum.org/2013/03/05/during-benedicts-papacy-religious-observance-among-catholics-in-europe-remained-low-but-stable/

 

[James82]

You need to unpick this question to have a common understanding of what the definition is to be “Catholic”. Is it about those who self -identify as Catholic, those baptised into the faith, or is it about how many attend mass weekly.

Well, let’s use the USA as a comparator - a whopping 24% of US Catholics go to mass weekly (the figure for the non-Catholic UK incidently is 23%). How does that compare with the countries in your list?

France -9%
Italy - 23%
Spain - 24%
Ireland - 18% (tragically down from 90% only 25 years ago)

This article gives a helpful overview of some of the indicators:

pewforum.org/2013/03/05/during-benedicts-papacy-religious-observance-among-catholics-in-europe-remained-low-but-stable/

What’s even more depressing is that those numbers are predominantly represented by the elderly.

 

[liturgyluver]

What’s even more depressing is that those numbers are predominantly represented by the elderly.

That is certainly my experience in Italy when I lived there. Opinion polls suggest that Italians say they go to the church when they actually don’t, which being from partly Italian stock does not surprise me! The congregations in Germany and Spain seem to span a better age range, and the average age of the English Church goer is 45.

 

[liturgyluver]

You need to unpick this question to have a common understanding of what the definition is to be “Catholic”. Is it about those who self -identify as Catholic, those baptised into the faith, or is it about how many attend mass weekly.

Well, let’s use the USA as a comparator - a whopping 24% of US Catholics go to mass weekly (the figure for the non-Catholic UK incidently is 23%). How does that compare with the countries in your list?

France -9%
Italy - 23%
Spain - 24%
Ireland - 18% (tragically down from 90% only 25 years ago)

This article gives a helpful overview of some of the indicators:

pewforum.org/2013/03/05/during-benedicts-papacy-religious-observance-among-catholics-in-europe-remained-low-but-stable/

I can’t seem to attach the article I wanted - the system seems determined to to attach the same attachment!!

 

[chero23]

I have read that Europe is becoming Atheist, Agnostic. Question to those from Europe and who know the History of Europe and the Church. But is this a phase, that ppl out there just don’t believe? Has this always been a problem? Do you see Europe starting to believe again?

 

[Ismael]

What’s even more depressing is that those numbers are predominantly represented by the elderly.

I have been in europe and I still see a lot of young people going to Church. Even in countries like Holland for example.

Surprisingly I find many young people in more traditional services rather than liberal ones.
One might expect o find only a few old geezers in Latin Mass, but surprizingly it has a lot of young people too!

I think one should be careful about statistics. They can often mislead.

Statements like:

No. Europe (and, by extension, America) is essentially lost.

are a bit too rushed.

TRUE, there is a crisis of faith, I am not claiming there is no problem to be acknowledged or that things are shiny and rosy. Many people are just ‘cultural christians’ who do go (maybe!) to church once or twice a year, YET there is also a lot of people (even if it is not a majority) who has a genuine faith and goes to church regularly and prays regularly.

I have read that Europe is becoming Atheist, Agnostic

Not really.

Two points:

1- about 100 years ago sociologists and atheists believes strongly that in 100 years religion would have completely disappeared from the west (according to their ‘statistics and trends’).

However at the end of the XX century there has been quite a strong revival. Now the idea that religion might disappear exists only in the delusions of the new atheists.

2- organized religion has a strong crisis, but disorganized religion (here I mean unaffilitated christians, house churches, etc) are actually growing.
Non to mention neo-paganism.

Atheism and even agnosticism are quite ‘unstable’, more often than not a ‘phase’ people go through from one faith to another (or back to the same one) rather than a ‘end point’.

So the phenomenon is far more complex than one might imagine at first.

 

[chero23]

I have been in europe and I still see a lot of young people going to Church. Even in countries like Holland for example.

Surprisingly I find many young people in more traditional services rather than liberal ones.
One might expect o find only a few old geezers in Latin Mass, but surprizingly it has a lot of young people too!

I think one should be careful about statistics. They can often mislead.

Statements like:

are a bit too rushed.

TRUE, there is a crisis of faith, I am not claiming there is no problem to be acknowledged or that things are shiny and rosy. Many people are just ‘cultural christians’ who do go (maybe!) to church once or twice a year, YET there is also a lot of people (even if it is not a majority) who has a genuine faith and goes to church regularly and prays regularly.

Not really.

Two points:

1- about 100 years ago sociologists and atheists believes strongly that in 100 years religion would have completely disappeared from the west (according to their ‘statistics and trends’).

However at the end of the XX century there has been quite a strong revival. Now the idea that religion might disappear exists only in the delusions of the new atheists.

2- organized religion has a strong crisis, but disorganized religion (here I mean unaffilitated christians, house churches, etc) are actually growing.
Non to mention neo-paganism.

Atheism and even agnosticism are quite ‘unstable’, more often than not a ‘phase’ people go through from one faith to another (or back to the same one) rather than a ‘end point’.

So the phenomenon is far more complex than one might imagine at first.

Well I do hope that Europe can 1 day believe in God, and become truly a Christian continent again, especially with Catholic roots