Just Some of My Thoughts on the Topic of Abortion

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runner93

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First off, I do not believe in or support abortion. I recognize that it is a sin that is committed daily by many misguided women who believe they are doing the right thing for themselves or for any multitude of reasons.

With this being said, I cannot understand why we try and pass laws to outlaw abortion. Yes, abortion is murder but if we outlaw abortion, what are we really proving? If abortion is outlawed in the future, abortions will be done illegally. And how exactly will we punish those for committing a sin against oneself?

As I stated previously, I do not believe in or support abortion. I am just trying to figure if there is a gray area within this complicated area of morals and ethics.
 
Abortion should be illegal because the most basic function of the law is to protect the weak and innocent from the strong and powerful.

Who could be more weak and innocent than an unborn child?
The argument that if we make it illegal then people would just get one illegally is not relevant. Should we remove the law against stealing because people will steal anyway?
 
kdcampbe said:
Abortion should be illegal because the most basic function of the law is to protect the weak and innocent from the strong and powerful.

Who could be more weak and innocent than an unborn child?
The argument that if we make it illegal then people would just get one illegally is not relevant. Should we remove the law against stealing because people will steal anyway?
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I agree, that an unborn child is the weakest and most innocent of human life. However, my argument is , how do we punish the one who aborts her fetus or do we not punish them, when it becomes illegal?
 
runner93 said:
I agree, that an unborn child is the weakest and most innocent of human life. However, my argument is , how do we punish the one who aborts her fetus or do we not punish them, when it becomes illegal?
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Are you referring to the doctor who aborts the child? If so the I would think that we would treat s/he as an accomplice or accessory to the crime.
 
kdcampbe said:
Are you referring to the doctor who aborts the child? If so the I would think that we would treat s/he as an accomplice or accessory to the crime.
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Well yes the doctor but also the woman. If abortions become illegal, women will do it themselves. How do we charge them?
 
Firstly, I disagree that if abortions were illegal, then women would do it themselves. I think the risks to the her would be too great for most women to do it alone. They would have some kind of help. Now, that help would probably not be from the standard medical community, but even now there are black medical markets. Mostly for vital organs.

As for the crime, it would be murder, in the same class as infanticide.
 
kdcampbe said:
Firstly, I disagree that if abortions were illegal, then women would do it themselves. I think the risks to the her would be too great for most women to do it alone. They would have some kind of help. Now, that help would probably not be from the standard medical community, but even now there are black medical markets. Mostly for vital organs.

As for the crime, it would be murder, in the same class as infanticide.
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I agree, some women would not do it themselves.

Yes, obviously it would be murder. However, if the woman believed (honestly and truly) that she was doing the right thing, then how do we judge it?
 
runner93 said:
I agree, that an unborn child is the weakest and most innocent of human life. However, my argument is , how do we punish the one who aborts her fetus or do we not punish them, when it becomes illegal?
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You live in the U.S. right? Well then I’d recommended deciding for yourself and voting for legislators who will enact laws that correspond to what you think should be done.

If you want my personal opinion, I think most of the time the woman does not perform an illegal abortion on herself. I would go hard on the doctor (or in a minority of cases, the non-doctor) who performed the abortion. If there is any indication that the woman was coerced by the father of the child or her family, I’d like to see the law be lenient. But if the woman just callously wanted to kill her baby I wouldn’t be afraid to punish her as well. I guess the same principle goes if she performs an abortion on herself; I’d be lenient if it shows she was coerced, but wouldn’t shy away from punishing a woman who freely chose to kill her child. I’d also like to see the law go after any parties who pay for the abortion or drive the woman there.

There’s got to be people on this forum who know what the typical punishments were before Roe. A good start might be to go back to laws similar to those.
 
brianwalden said:
You live in the U.S. right? Well then I’d recommended deciding for yourself and voting for legislators who will enact laws that correspond to what you think should be done.

If you want my personal opinion, I think most of the time the woman does not perform an illegal abortion on herself. I would go hard on the doctor (or in a minority of cases, the non-doctor) who performed the abortion. If there is any indication that the woman was coerced by the father of the child or her family, I’d like to see the law be lenient. But if the woman just callously wanted to kill her baby I wouldn’t be afraid to punish her as well. I guess the same principle goes if she performs an abortion on herself; I’d be lenient if it shows she was coerced, but wouldn’t shy away from punishing a woman who freely chose to kill her child. I’d also like to see the law go after any parties who pay for the abortion or drive the woman there.

There’s got to be people on this forum who know what the typical punishments were before Roe. A good start might be to go back to laws similar to those.
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Yes I live in the US. I agree most of the time the woman does not perform it on herself, but it does still happen. Your opinion definitely makes sense to me. How, though, do we judge this area when it is not black and white as some believe?
 
runner93 said:
I agree, some women would not do it themselves.

Yes, obviously it would be murder. However, if the woman believed (honestly and truly) that she was doing the right thing, then how do we judge it?
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Spies often think they are doing the right thing. Do you think we should allow enemy spies off scott free?

Premeditated murder is an option for abortion, but lets be honest, if the women TRULY cannot support this baby, and made a horrible mistake, I think counseling would be an option.

However, I think you are looking at this wrong. Your argument is that if its illegal, it’ll still happen anyway. Well then let me ask you, should rape be legal? It still happens even though its illegal. Why don’t we also pay for the room the rapist does his work in so that it is clean, and less likely to cause infection?

It is not a what, but a why question. Why make it illegal? because you are murdering a child that YOU helped create.
 
runner93 said:
Yes, obviously it would be murder. However, if the woman believed (honestly and truly) that she was doing the right thing, then how do we judge it?
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We need a lawyer in here, but I don’t believe ignorance of the law is a valid defense in court. At the very least, I’m pretty darn sure you don’t get off because you think you’re right and the law is wrong.

As far as the moral law goes, we only know that abortion is grave matter; her culpability is between her and God.
 
runner93 said:
With this being said, I cannot understand why we try and pass laws to outlaw abortion. Yes, abortion is murder but if we outlaw abortion, what are we really proving? If abortion is outlawed in the future, abortions will be done illegally. And how exactly will we punish those for committing a sin against oneself?

.
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you are absolutely right
while we are at it, we should abolish all laws against murder, after all, people kill other people every day, so the law obviously is not working. and how about those annoying traffic laws. People still speed and run red lights and drive drunk, so who are we helping? Theft, now why should there be laws against it? Why should we fill up prisons with murderers, rapists, thieves and other malefactors? we could save a lot of money by just shrugging, throwing up our hands and saying, well all these things are illegal but people do them anyway, so just abolish the laws and save a lot of money on running the criminal justice system.
after all, you cannot legislate morality.🤷 this is supposed to be the whatever smiley
 
Redratfish said:
Spies often think they are doing the right thing. Do you think we should allow enemy spies off scott free?

Premeditated murder is an option for abortion, but lets be honest, if the women TRULY cannot support this baby, and made a horrible mistake, I think counseling would be an option.

However, I think you are looking at this wrong. Your argument is that if its illegal, it’ll still happen anyway. Well then let me ask you, should rape be legal? It still happens even though its illegal. Why don’t we also pay for the room the rapist does his work in so that it is clean, and less likely to cause infection?

It is not a what, but a why question. Why make it illegal? because you are murdering a child that YOU helped create.
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True. But that is my question, why make it illegal? Yes, you are murdering a child you helped create, but how do we respond to the “pro-choice” people? It’s your choice to kill your fetus or let it develop and give birth.
 
runner93 said:
Yes I live in the US. I agree most of the time the woman does not perform it on herself, but it does still happen. Your opinion definitely makes sense to me. How, though, do we judge this area when it is not black and white as some believe?
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Our legal system works like this all the time. There are different ways to handle it: there could be different degrees of the crime, district attorneys can be quick to offer immunity to women in exchange for information on the people who aided in the abortion, the law can be written so that judges have a wide range of flexibility in sentencing from counseling and community service up to hard jail time.
 
puzzleannie said:
you are absolutely right
while we are at it, we should abolish all laws against murder, after all, people kill other people every day, so the law obviously is not working. and how about those annoying traffic laws. People still speed and run red lights and drive drunk, so who are we helping? Theft, now why should there be laws against it? Why should we fill up prisons with murderers, rapists, thieves and other malefactors? we could save a lot of money by just shrugging, throwing up our hands and saying, well all these things are illegal but people do them anyway, so just abolish the laws and save a lot of money on running the criminal justice system.
after all, you cannot legislate morality.🤷 this is supposed to be the whatever smiley
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I love your sarcasm 🙂
And I see exactly what point you are trying to make. However, a different question I might ask is, what should the law against abortion entail?
 
brianwalden said:
Our legal system works like this all the time. There are different ways to handle it: there could be different degrees of the crime, district attorneys can be quick to offer immunity to women in exchange for information on the people who aided in the abortion, the law can be written so that judges have a wide range of flexibility in sentencing from counseling and community service up to hard jail time.
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I’m not sure we can even rely on much of our legal system. We have resorted to simply slapping an offender’s hand rather than truly assigning the punishment that fits the crime anymore…
 
The theory goes that if abortion is criminalised there will be back yard abortions, but no evidence is ever seemingly given.

Cocaine is illegal and yet people still take it
Mutilating young girls is illegal yet that still happens
Etc, etc, etc
So should these crimes be no longer criminal?

Modern science, medicine and molecular biology tells us that human life begins at conception with all the chromosomes intact. Within a month there is a beating heart - most abortions occur after 6 weeks. Thus abortion kills a human life. The deliberate killing of a defenceless human can never be justified.
 
Canto said:
The theory goes that if abortion is criminalised there will be back yard abortions, but no evidence is ever seemingly given.

Cocaine is illegal and yet people still take it
Mutilating young girls is illegal yet that still happens
Etc, etc, etc
So should these crimes be no longer criminal?

Modern science, medicine and molecular biology tells us that human life begins at conception with all the chromosomes intact. Within a month there is a beating heart - most abortions occur after 6 weeks. Thus abortion kills a human life. The deliberate killing of a defenceless human can never be justified.
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I know what our sciences tell us about conception. I agree, it can never be justified but how do we accurately define a justifiable punishment?
 
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