Just to clarify something

[TimothyH]

Boy…my experience is just the opposite…tell Roman Catholics about Eastern Catholicism (something most don’t even know exists) and they are VERY interested. I can show you about 200 “converts” that I know personally just in So Cal. The Eastern Catholics are the best kept secret in the Catholic Communion.

Likewise, our new priest explained that the Roman Rite was only one of several (forgot how many) rites and explained some of the differences, but mainly the richness of the eastern rites. Most at Mass that day had no idea and it generated much interest.

I think many western Catholics, once they are past ignorance, are genuinly interested. The ones that arn’t, well, they are probably on cruise control anyway.

-Tim-

 

[Monica4316]

thanks!

 

[Vico]

You ask the priest of whichever parish you frequent. I don’t even go to any RC priest anymore even though I’m still canonically Roman. Except for my last pastor who keeps on calling me whenever his computer breaks down but I’m happy to oblige

Perhaps he is your proper pastor since you are ascribed to the Latin Church. The proper pastor has a unique role and has some obligations that others do not, for those ascribed to the Latin Church (in this example) in his parish territory, and handles their sacramental records also.

The conciliar text *Christus Dominus, *n. 30 is reflected in Canon 529.1. where it states:
“In order to fulfill his office diligently, the pastor is to strive to know the faithful entrusted to his care. Therefore, he is to visit families, sharing in their cares, anxieties and griefs of the faithful, strengthening them in the Lord and prudently correcting them if they are failing in certain areas. With generous love he is to help the sick, particularly those close to death, by refreshing them solicitously with the sacraments and commending their souls to God; with particular diligence he is to seek out the poor, the afflicted, the lonely, those exiled from their country, and similarly those weighed down by special difficulties. He is to work so that spouses and parents are supported in fulfilling their duties and is to foster growth of Christian life in the family.”

 

[ConstantineTG]

Perhaps he is your proper pastor since you are ascribed to the Latin Church. The proper pastor has a unique role and has some obligations that others do not, for those ascribed to the Latin Church (in this example) in his parish territory, and handles their sacramental records also.

The conciliar text *Christus Dominus, *n. 30 is reflected in Canon 529.1. where it states:
“In order to fulfill his office diligently, the pastor is to strive to know the faithful entrusted to his care. Therefore, he is to visit families, sharing in their cares, anxieties and griefs of the faithful, strengthening them in the Lord and prudently correcting them if they are failing in certain areas. With generous love he is to help the sick, particularly those close to death, by refreshing them solicitously with the sacraments and commending their souls to God; with particular diligence he is to seek out the poor, the afflicted, the lonely, those exiled from their country, and similarly those weighed down by special difficulties. He is to work so that spouses and parents are supported in fulfilling their duties and is to foster growth of Christian life in the family.”

He hasn’t visited me even though I live 2 blocks from the parish

I already have discussed this with the Bishop. By all intents and purposes, I’m a Ukrainian Catholic as I have began to live the Ukrainian Catholic spirituality.

 

[Aramis]

The funniest part about that is that he still acts as if I’m a parishioner at his parish

If it’s the territorial parish for where you live, you still are his parishioner, canonically, until you formally submit your letter requesting transfer of ascription.

Likewise, Monica, since you are not in a personal parish for Russians, yes, the local Roman pastor is the one you’re supposed to ask. However, given your scrupulosity, ask your father-confessor. He should be more aware of the local status on pastors than we are, as some dioceses have gone to all parishes being essentially personal parishes.

 

[5Loaves]

thanks

I think I need to get a dispensation from the Sunday obligation for a couple weeks because my family might be going on a trip to a place where there are no Catholic churches (or I won’t be able to get to any). I read that I’m supposed to ask my pastor for this. Since Russian Catholics fall under the local Roman Catholic jurisdiction (bishop), should I aks my local Latin rite pastor?

Since you are already working with your priest on your challenge with scrupulosity I would strongly encourage you to bring your questions to him. He is in the position to know how to best assist you since he is the one familiar with the entire context of the issues you are confronting.

 

[Vico]

He hasn’t visited me even though I live 2 blocks from the parish

I already have discussed this with the Bishop. By all intents and purposes, I’m a Ukrainian Catholic as I have began to live the Ukrainian Catholic spirituality.

So by “all intents and purposes” do you mean the usual definition: ‘it isn’t actually true but it it so close to being so that we may proceed as though it is’?

 

[ConstantineTG]

So by “all intents and purposes” do you mean the usual definition: ‘it isn’t actually true but it it so close to being so that we may proceed as though it is’?

Let me put it this way, I’m an immigrant and permanent resident of Canada. I live in Canada, work in Canada, pay taxes in Canada, I own property in Canada. But I’m not a citizen (yet) and still travel with a Philippine passport. But can you say I’m not Canadian at this point? Thats the same case with the Ukrainian Church. I live and breathe the Ukrainian spirituality, I go there almost exclusively (unless schedules prevent me) and have taken all the practices and traditions. What’s left is to make it official on paper. But does the paper have more value than my spirituality? Who’s more Ukrainian Catholic? A canonically Ukrainian who exclusively goes to a Roman Catholic parish, or a canonically Roman Catholic who goes exclusively to a Ukrainian parish?

 

[Aramis]

Let me put it this way, I’m an immigrant and permanent resident of Canada. I live in Canada, work in Canada, pay taxes in Canada, I own property in Canada. But I’m not a citizen (yet) and still travel with a Philippine passport. But can you say I’m not Canadian at this point? Thats the same case with the Ukrainian Church. I live and breathe the Ukrainian spirituality, I go there almost exclusively (unless schedules prevent me) and have taken all the practices and traditions. What’s left is to make it official on paper. But does the paper have more value than my spirituality? Who’s more Ukrainian Catholic? A canonically Ukrainian who exclusively goes to a Roman Catholic parish, or a canonically Roman Catholic who goes exclusively to a Ukrainian parish?

Until you’re sworn in as a Canadian, you’re still an alien on Canadian soil, and have different legal rights, privileges, and duties. You still might owe the Philippine government taxes in addition to Canada, and still can be drafted by the Philippine Government should they decide to use adult conscription. And can still be expelled to the Philippine Islands by the Canadian Authorities. So, no, you’re no Canadian. And you still would be treated as a Phillipine citizen for entry/egress from any other country.

Likewise, you’re still a Latin, until the letter of intent to change ascription is in.

 

[ConstantineTG]

Until you’re sworn in as a Canadian, you’re still an alien on Canadian soil, and have different legal rights, privileges, and duties. You still might owe the Philippine government taxes in addition to Canada, and still can be drafted by the Philippine Government should they decide to use adult conscription. And can still be expelled to the Philippine Islands by the Canadian Authorities. So, no, you’re no Canadian. And you still would be treated as a Phillipine citizen for entry/egress from any other country.

Likewise, you’re still a Latin, until the letter of intent to change ascription is in.

Er, not so. I have the same rights as every Canadian Citizen except for voting and access to certain jobs that has security restrictions based on citizenship. I also cannot have a Canadian passport which means I would still need a visa to travel to most countries. Other than that I have the same legal rights as any Canadian and subject to the same taxes and government benefits as any Canadian. Remember, I am a Canadian Resident, not a foreign worker.

No, I do not owe the Philippine government anything. I do not reside there therefore I do not need to pay their taxes. I don’t even pay the Philippine Travel Tax paid by Filipino travelers. Filipino residents of other countries are not required (proof of residency needed such as the Canadian PR card or a US Green Card).

And no offense Aramis and to Vico as well, I have already discussed this with our Bishop and I will take his word over yours. Besides the official piece of paper, I am a Ukrainian Catholic.

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

Er, not so. I have the same rights as every Canadian Citizen except for voting and access to certain jobs that has security restrictions based on citizenship. I also cannot have a Canadian passport which means I would still need a visa to travel to most countries. Other than that I have the same legal rights as any Canadian and subject to the same taxes and government benefits as any Canadian. Remember, I am a Canadian Resident, not a foreign worker.

You state right here that you do not have the same rights as a Canadian citizen so I am with Aramis on this, you are not a Canadian yet.

As for your Church, you are a Latin Catholic who attends a UGCC but I would go one further than Aramis’ “Likewise, you’re still a Latin, until the letter of intent to change ascription is in.” I would add “and it is accepted” because the transfer can be denied by either bishop.

This also makes me wonder what you would think I am.

 

[ConstantineTG]

You state right here that you do not have the same rights as a Canadian citizen so I am with Aramis on this, you are not a Canadian yet.

As for your Church, you are a Latin Catholic who attends a UGCC but I would go one further than Aramis’ “Likewise, you’re still a Latin, until the letter of intent to change ascription is in.” I would add “and it is accepted” because the transfer can be denied by either bishop.

This also makes me wonder what you would think I am.

I can only speak for myself Bro. David. As I said, I presented my case to our (UGCC) Bishop and that is the reply I got. I can’t speak for your case, I’ll take your word for how you would classify yourself.

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

I can only speak for myself Bro. David. As I said, I presented my case to our (UGCC) Bishop and that is the reply I got. I can’t speak for your case, I’ll take your word for how you would classify yourself.

If your Bishop says that then it matters not what others think.

But just a thought, what does your Latin Bishop say?

I only asked what you thought of my situation as you seemed to have a thought as to members of the UGCC who attend Roman parishes.

 

[ConstantineTG]

If your Bishop says that then it matters not what others think.

But just a thought, what does your Latin Bishop say?

I only asked what you thought of my situation as you seemed to have a thought as to members of the UGCC who attend Roman parishes.

During my talk with the Bishop he contrasted my situation with those who are canonically Ukrainian but are attending Latin Rite parishes and practicing the faith and tradition of the Latin Rite. For things like Feast Days and disciplines on Confirmation and First Communion, they then follow the Latin Rite tradition. In fact, most of them probably are not aware they can ask that the Ukrainian tradition is followed.

The Latin Bishop is not as accessible. Besides, I’m on the other side of the city from where the Latin Cathedral is. I’m not saying he’s a snob, he just has a bigger flock to attend to.

 

[ConstantineTG]

By the way, my 1 year old son has also been receiving Communion. He has already been baptized and confirmed (case of necessity) in the Latin Rite. And this is with permission from the UGCC Bishop.

 

[malphono]

As for your Church, you are a Latin Catholic who attends a UGCC but I would go one further than Aramis’ “Likewise, you’re still a Latin, until the letter of intent to change ascription is in.” I would add “and it is accepted” because the transfer can be denied by either bishop.

Yes. Until the time such an ascription is completed (officially and in writing), no transfer takes place. The person is still a canonical member of the original Church. I recall a case some years ago where the petitioner was “yessed to death” by the “receiving” bishop, but in the end the transfer was denied (by which party, I don’t know).

 

[Vico]

Let me put it this way, I’m an immigrant and permanent resident of Canada. I live in Canada, work in Canada, pay taxes in Canada, I own property in Canada. But I’m not a citizen (yet) and still travel with a Philippine passport. But can you say I’m not Canadian at this point? Thats the same case with the Ukrainian Church. I live and breathe the Ukrainian spirituality, I go there almost exclusively (unless schedules prevent me) and have taken all the practices and traditions. What’s left is to make it official on paper. But does the paper have more value than my spirituality? Who’s more Ukrainian Catholic? A canonically Ukrainian who exclusively goes to a Roman Catholic parish, or a canonically Roman Catholic who goes exclusively to a Ukrainian parish?

It is not difficult to understand; to continue the analogy:
You are a citizen of the Philippines and a resident of Canada.
You are a citizen of the Latin Catholic Church and a resident of the Ukrainian Catholic Church.
Therefore, in both, you have the rights and obligations of a resident not a citizen.

 

[ConstantineTG]

It is not difficult to understand; to continue the analogy:
You are a citizen of the Philippines and a resident of Canada.
You are a citizen of the Latin Catholic Church and a resident of the Ukrainian Catholic Church.
Therefore, in both, you have the rights and obligations of a resident not a citizen.

Yes, in doing so I live by the rules of where I am, not where I am from.

 

[Vico]

Yes, in doing so I live by the rules of where I am, not where I am from.

Surely you do. And those rules of where you are as a permanent resident have some limitation, you and your dependants cannot:

• Vote or run for political office.
• Hold certain jobs that have a high-level security clearance requirement.
• Remain in Canada if you are convicted of a serious criminal offence and have been told to leave the country.

Also in the Catholic Church the CIC and CCEO and Pastor Bonus, plus territorial laws (and some others) specify the rights and obligations. Therefore the rules that apply in Canada for you are those of the Universal Church and the Latin Church, in Canada, because you are ascribed to the Church.

 

[ciero]

Surely you do. And those rules of where you are as a permanent resident have some limitation, you and your dependants cannot:

• Vote or run for political office.
• Hold certain jobs that have a high-level security clearance requirement.
• Remain in Canada if you are convicted of a serious criminal offence and have been told to leave the country.

Also in the Catholic Church the CIC and CCEO and Pastor Bonus, plus territorial laws (and some others) specify the rights and obligations. Therefore the rules that apply in Canada for you are those of the Universal Church and the Latin Church, in Canada, because you are ascribed to the Church.

Stick to what Bishop Ken told you Constantine…this is bunk.