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Vonsalza
Guest
I think quite a few people simply refuse to acknowledge the effect of “gun control” on the homicide rates in nations like Japan, England and Australia when compared to ours.
Roughly a fifth or so…
Just what is "common sense gun control?" How about a few examples?
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Roughly a fifth or so…
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Duesenberg
Guest
You’re wrong. Japan doesn’t have 1/5 the homicide rate the US has (if that’s even true?) because it has tighter gun controls. That’s the fallacy. Japan has lower homicide rates because it’s far smaller with a far more homogeneous population and far different societal expectations.
Japan also doesn’t have a South Side of Chicago, a Baltimore, a Washington DC, a Camden NJ, a Detroit or a Memphis, TN.
The tough part is understanding if individuals pushing for more gun control are ignorant of the facts or are the purposely trying to deceive? Probably a bit of both in most cases I suspect.
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MonteRCMS
Guest
Duesenberg is correct.
Japan has a far more homogeneous population and far different societal expectations.
Japan also does not have a South Side of Chicago, or a Baltimore [where the mayor says give the rioters some space], or Washington DC or a Camden NJ or a Detroit or a Memphis TN.
American inner cities have cultural norms that are vastly different from our expectations.
Over the decades, the ACLU has sowed chaos in our inner cities.
Japan has a far more homogeneous population and far different societal expectations.
Japan also does not have a South Side of Chicago, or a Baltimore [where the mayor says give the rioters some space], or Washington DC or a Camden NJ or a Detroit or a Memphis TN.
American inner cities have cultural norms that are vastly different from our expectations.
Over the decades, the ACLU has sowed chaos in our inner cities.
LeafByNiggle
Well-known member
Using homogenous societies like Japan as a base of comparison, what can we say about the experiment of arming everyone to the teeth to compensate for our very inhomogenous society? I would say that experiment has failed. We buy more and more guns and it does not help. When are we going to admit that maybe that isn’t the solution?
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Duesenberg
Guest
Now you’re just talking smack. The “gun culture” in the US is a product of concern about its gov’t (and the gov’t of other countries) and not of its heterogeneous population.
LeafByNiggle
Well-known member
Well, whatever they say their goal is, they have failed at it. If it was to keep corrupt government at bay, how’s that working out for you? Is the US government substantially less corrupt than countries like Israel, Canada, Japan, Ireland, UK? I’m not saying there aren’t corrupt countries with low gun ownership. I’m just saying gun ownership is not the thing that ensures no corruption. Plus it comes with a very high price tag.LeafByNiggle:
Now you’re just talking smack. The “gun culture” in the US is a product of concern about its gov’t (and the gov’t of other countries) and not of its heterogeneous population.
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Vonsalza
Guest
The argument that their substantially lower homicide rate is exclusively derived from their practical gun-ban wasn’t forwarded, so please don’t start some spin-generating tirade as though it was…Vonsalza:
You’re wrong. Japan doesn’t have 1/5 the homicide rate the US has (if that’s even true?) because it has tighter gun controls.
It’s a contributing factor. Most of these places that have substantially lower homicide rates are also places where getting a gun requires substantial effort. The smart people in the room can see the connection.
Rates have nothing to do with size, so this argument is simply wrong.
This is simultaneously racist AND meaningless.
The populations of most South American countries are pretty “homogeneous”. They’ve also got some of the worst homicide rates world-wide.
The “racial-homogeneity” argument is factually hollow. Please stop using it…
They don’t have slums? You can’t be serious…
For the supporters of the gun-lobby, it is clearly both - as all have seen here.
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Duesenberg
Guest
Prove it.
“Far smaller” in this context means a country that is far easier to tightly govern.
Absolutely not. Your “racist” slur is deeply offensive. Stop projecting your racism on threads I start. It’s also not meaningless. Anyone aware of Japanese (or Swiss, or Danish, or Canadian, etc., etc.) culture would immediately understand this.
No. Most South American countries are conquered countries – of Spain, Portugal, etc. That history has a huge impact even today. You should study and contrast the histories of Japan and whatever South American countries you are talking about. (They also typically have very tight gun control laws to boot.)
Whoa! It’s YOU that is dragging race into this discussion. Stop doing so. Japan’s populace is homogeneous in many ways – particularly culturally. Stop trying to play the race card. It’s horribly repugnant.
No where near what the US has, even on a per capita basis.
“Gun control” does not work. There’s hard proof it doesn’t work – it’s a Google search away. Your denial/inability to articulate the truth on this matter does not change that fact.
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Theo520
Guest
If gun availability drove the homicide rate, Australia would have seen an immediate drop following their buyback/confiscation effort.
If gun availability drove the homicide rate, we would see a correlation between the US states, but there is no statistical correlation with homicides and gun availability.
Face the facts, gun availability is not a significant factor in driving homicide rates.
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SuperLuigi
Guest
That it’s up to them whether or not they want a gun.
So we’re not “arming everyone to the teeth”.
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LeafByNiggle
Well-known member
My comment was about the degree of gun ownership, not about how that ownership came about. There is no doubt that US gun ownership leads citizens of other nations several times over. That’s all I meant.leafbyniggle:
That it’s up to them whether or not they want a gun.
So we’re not “arming everyone to the teeth”.
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Apache75
Guest
Most likely not amongst criminals.
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Duesenberg
Guest
That’s untrue. Check the facts.
LeafByNiggle
Well-known member
Here are the facts for you.LeafByNiggle:
That’s untrue. Check the facts.
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Duesenberg
Guest
That’s not all nations…
LeafByNiggle
Well-known member
Then among all the developed nations, we lead the pack by a factor of about two or more. Can you name a major nation that has more guns per capita than the US?LeafByNiggle:
That’s not all nations…
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Duesenberg
Guest
Two new qualifications, how interesting.
In any event I think a large number of guns/capita is a VERY positive thing anyway…
LeafByNiggle
Well-known member
What happened to “Untrue. Check your facts?” Guess we will just let that one slide, eh? Do you ever admit you are wrong?LeafByNiggle:
Two new qualifications, how interesting.
In any event I think a large number of guns/capita is a VERY positive thing anyway…
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otjm
Guest
Proof, please? There have been repeated attempts to outlaw rifles which have the “dressing” of an M-16. It scares the patooties out of the liberals and the medial in its vacuous lapdog Pavlovian response, constantly calls them “assault weapons”.
But the same barrel and receiver, “dressed up” with a wood stock, doesn’t elicit the same reaction.
Neither are assault weapons - I served my 3 years in the military, and we all knew what an assault weapon was - and it was not a semi automatic.
The M-16 style semi automatic weapon is, according to some studies, the most widely owned rifle today. It has also been the object of gun control laws… And in crime, rarely used.
And according to the FBI statistics, there are more crimes using a knife than there are a gun - pistol, revolver, shotgun or rifle.
But the same barrel and receiver, “dressed up” with a wood stock, doesn’t elicit the same reaction.
Neither are assault weapons - I served my 3 years in the military, and we all knew what an assault weapon was - and it was not a semi automatic.
The M-16 style semi automatic weapon is, according to some studies, the most widely owned rifle today. It has also been the object of gun control laws… And in crime, rarely used.
And according to the FBI statistics, there are more crimes using a knife than there are a gun - pistol, revolver, shotgun or rifle.
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Duesenberg
Guest
You modified your original statement with “among all the developed nations” and “major nation.”
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